What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I have asked in the past how much people thought luck was a factor in hunting success but talking to a friend today made me rethink some things.

What do you think is the most important ingredient for hunting success??

In my opinion it is the land you get to hunt.

I know guys that have taken more deer then they can remember. Most if not all hunt land that is not hunted very much if at all. You know the private paradises that we all wish we had. The only shots fired are by you and you control the deer population and can afford to pass on animals not quite in their prime. These guys always act shocked when I tell them that I am thrilled just to see a deer.....no matter what the distance I saw it at. You see I spend 99% of my time on state lands. We do well but it is a different world out there. Lead flying all over the place at times and dealing with other hunters that don' t exactly make it an ideal situation to see deer(that aren' t running). Don' t get me wrong.......on state land this year I took 3 deer. Only one I would say wasn' t set in motion from people being in the woods. The other 2 were taken because I know where the funnel is that they head to as a getaway. I am just saying that IMO anyone could have a ton of deer on his resume' if given the chance to hunt some of these sweet spots where seeing deer is the norm and seeing a trophy is a good day.

I think skill and luck can be looked at a couple different ways. The 2 deer I took on state land were 1 skill and 1 luck IMO. Both taken from trees within 20 yards of each other. The first was a buck that was just making his way through the woods 65 yards to my right that I am sure was moving away from other hunters he heard or saw enter the opposite edge of the woods(They always do) The other deer was a doe that was running full speed from some idiot taking pot shots at her in an open field. She picked the absolute worst direction to run in and I shot her 10 yards directly behind my tree. I was the only hunter in that square of woods and just past me is 1,500 acres.......she just zigged when she should have zagged.

I think skill serves you much better to get a deer(not a trophy) on state land. I think skill helps you get a trophy on private land. Luck is luck and you just never know..........sometimes it is good and sometimes it is bad but rarely is it reliable either way. Even though we all know some dork who walks in the woods for 20 minutes before heading back for breakfast and yet somehow has some of the best racks on his wall to show for it.


A good question I will pose is Do you think that a well seasoned, crafty, veteran of the woods could have similar success on state land as he does on private land??

I think that the crafty vet could look over the land and give a good opinion on stand placement and where the big boys SHOULD be come season. However when the city hunters show up and 50 guys are walking and talking through the woods with tags hanging off their guns and coats it is impossible to predict the deers reaction to such stress and disruption of their routines.


What do you guys think??

I say LAND---SKILL---LUCK


If any other items rank higher on this list please feel free to add them.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I' d take being lucky any day! Of course good luck eludes me so I' ve had to compensate with skill and owning my own land. I' d still just rather be lucky in general,lot less work involved!! :D

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I would rather be lucky than good anyday. Look at Mike Beatty, now there is one lucky guy! The land you hunt is important as well, the amount of hunting pressure, food sources available, and genetics are all key factors. The basic skills required in hunting are pretty easy to acquire, and are the one aspect I can control. All it takes is time on my part during the offseason(scouting, practice shooting my bow). I can' t dictate what the deer do, and that is where good old fashioned luck comes in.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

:D IMO I think that all three are equally important.You could have the perfect land and if you have no skill how are you going to hunt it? You can be lucky but you need some sort of skills to get lucky. If hunting state land and their is high pressure then go when the city guys aren' t in them,like during the week or do more scouting in the places that they don' t get into.But we' ve had successful sesaons on public lands and we did what I had said.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I think the land is very important, you have to have good land with nice bucks on it in order to take a nice buck, then i think luck and skill go hand and hand with eachother. the more skill you have the lucker you seem to get.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

WEll, there are a lot of deer taken on land that some people would think was down right poor. SKILL to hunt the land you have available with what it holds is the most important. Throw in some luck once in a while to keep you shaking your head and you' ll have fun.:D That' s what it' s all about... having fun... not seeing who can shoot the most or seeing who can gain access to the best places.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

All are important to have a successful hunt, but their is one other important factor, work. But I will say, many of the deer I have taken was because lady luck did happen to shine that day.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

you could have all the other factors on your side but luck will decide if the scale tips in or out of your favor I have had days where everything was done right and the deer walked just a few yards out of range or behind some brush etc.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Which takes more skill.....hunting 100 acres with a good population of deer moving through or 100 acres with very few deer? I say that the most important ingredient is the land. Skill can be acquired through experience and continued learning, luck can always be a factor but you can increase the odds in your favor by placing yourself in the best situations.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Well said Cougar.

I just think that a hunter of any caliber stands a good/better chance of taking a deer if they are hunting no pressure private high population land.

Being a great hunter means nothing if you have idiots driving through the woods in groups of 10 every 15 minutes trying to scare up any and all living things......actually then it pays to be the lucky guy.

A marginal talent hunter will see his harvest numbers go way up if given the chance to hunt a nice plot of land...........A great hunter stands a very good chance of seeing his harvest decline if forced to hunt the state forests crowded with weekend warriors.

Luck is luck and could change day to day so it doesn' t really matter where you are for luck to shine or spit on you.


I know guys that have hunted 2-3 straight SEASONS and could count the combined deer they saw on one hand. I also know people that see more then that 99% of the times they go out.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I think you make your luck!!

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

You can' t shoot what isn' t there so land (more importantly deer herd size) is most important. Then skill comes into play. You can have tons of deer but if you don' t know what you are doing you won' t shoot many of them. Lastly is luck BUT sometimes luck can superceed any of the above.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Being a Pennsylvania bowhunter that hunts heavily pressured public land in PA I would have to say...uhh..hhhhmmm...

...Land maybe?

;)

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

True, good land is important, but with no luck & no skill -
there is no harvest. I think it' s a combination of all 3 and
one cannot be seperated from the others. I know guys who
bowhunt land that' s filled with deer and are the only ones
to hunt it....they see a lot of deer, but rarely put
their tag on one.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I think it takes a good combination of all three. If you have a prime piece of property but limited knowledge/skill, I think your success will be limited. You can control and improve your skill level but the land you have access to hunt is much harder to control. I know some areas of the country, private property is nearly impossible to come by. My success is better now than it was several years ago when I began bowhunting on National Forest lands. I now hunt private land almost exclusively but I do not think that is the only reason that I enjoy better success now. Deer populations are much higher now than they were when I first started and I don' t make as many mistakes as I did when I first started. I also work much harder during the offseason scouting, practicing and making sure my equipment is in good working order.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I would have to say LUCK, We hope we are lucky enuff that our
hard work preparing pays off!!

Puttem in the K-ZONE,AL:D

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Here is my take on this.

As far as luck - throw it out of the equation..why..because though there have been hunts where I felt I got a little lucky, there have been just as many where I have felt that old lady luck was looking the other day. So for every time i did get lucky there are just as many, if not more times I felt I was unlucky - its a wash:)

As far as land - you do with what you have and judge your succes accordingly. A trophy hunter in Florida is not going to hold out for a 170 but a hunter in ILL. might. That 130" in Florida is just as much an accomplishment in Florida as a 170 is in Ill. - just a rough example. I have done all my hunting in high pressure public land, and have leaerned NEVER to blame my lack of success on the woods I hunt. Where there is a will there is a way;). The deer, even the big deer are there, if you hunt this type of land, and you want those good deer you just have to work harder than everyone else. That brings me to last and most important factor...

Skill - or a better term I think is work. I made up my mind many years ago that I will eat my last buck tag stew, and that i would give myself the best oppertunity that I could to put myself over good bucks. There is a real, and just reason that some hunters around me were consistantly killing much better and more deer than me. And it was easy to say " yea but that guy hunts some great land" . Well that may be true, but upon investigation he was also scouting and working at his hunting 500% more than I was. My eyes were opened to what it takes to kill good deer in my area, it takes more than a month or two of fall scouting and a handfull of stands, It takes more than putting the bow away in december and concentrating 100% on fishing until september. It may come easier to some, but for me to consistantly kill the deer I want to kill, I have to have horns on my mind 365 days a year. I have to scout and create options all winter and summer long, and this mind set has enriched my experiance ten fold.

My opinion is take every other factor and throw it out the window, if you are willing to put in the work (some areas require more than others), All the other things that seem so important just fall into place.:)

The good hunters never rely on luck, they expect it:D

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

The deer Density in the area your hunting is def number one in the ingriedients for a succsessful hunt, and number 2 is knowing where, how and when the deer in that area are moving, eating and sleeping.

I hunted a field strip last year where you could literaly take a plastic bag and fill it with deer droppings(very fresh) in no time. I hunted it in the mornings, the afternoons and evenings, no moonlight, full moonlight, pre rut, post rut, rainy days, sunny days, cold days and warm days!...did not see one deer! Conclusion? its obvious! they were completly nocturnal in that area.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

The only problem with saying hard work will always pay off regardless of the land you are on is that in a state forest you just NEVER know what you may encounter when you go on a hunt. You can' t hang stands and leave them so you are limited to your climber......You may think that you are all set for a perfect hunt and when you arive you find 3 other guys that scouted your same areas and have been up a tree since 3:30 am........leaving you grasping for options at the last seconds of darkness. You also may get to hang your perfect stand in your perfect spot only to have a group out on a nature hike parade by talking and leaving 100 different scents all over what used to be your good spot(happened to me and a buddy) It is possible to see squirrel and turkey hunters shooting guns in your area and walking and talking aloud.

There are just a ton of things on state land that can negate your hard work and scouting. I am not saying that you can' t still get the job done.......I took 2 bucks and a doe on state land last year. 90% of the time on prime private land you don' t have to worry about being disturbed........if you do get disturbed it is probably by the landowner so tough beans.

An average hunter can go years on state land without even seeing a deer(I know more then one guy it' s happened to) put that same guy on property with a large herd and all he has to do is not miss.

My brother is a good example. He doesn' t have a great deer hunting history. He doesn' t spend all year scouting and planning.......he spends all year fishing. He knows the woods and he can get the job done but he just doesn' t see a ton of deer. He was telling a friend from work about this and the guy was laughing his butt off because he couldn' t believe it. He told my brother he would take him out to his farm and let him hunt because he had filled his tags already with a 9 and 10 respectively. The day my brother went out he saw 17 deer and 5 different bucks. He took a nice 8 pointer that graces his wall today. Was he lucky?? no Did he suddenly become a master woodsman?? no He was put in a spot that had a great herd his average skills allowed him to take a very nice buck.


Give a bass fisherman the choice and I am sure they would pick a private well stocked pond full of lunkers any day over fighting through jet skis and party boats on the lake.


Outfitters make a living off this very fact. " Come hunt our land.....We have 40,000 acres of prime unpressured land with 150 and up class bucks all over the place."

People pay thousands of dollars every day for the chance to hunt............LAND. I have seen 12 year old kids on TV shows take bucks bigger then I have ever seen in my life. Put that kid and his game boy out in the state forest and see how many tags he fills.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Atlas - I agree 100% - I have had small game hunters hit me with there shot - when a pheasant launched between myself and them[:o], I have had kids walk down the very trail I was over, joggers, horseback riders, mushroom pickers, and have found other hunters in my stands, next to my stands or stolen my stands. Fustrating to the max[:@]. These events can loose the battle but not the war.

I am not saying it is easy but you have to go in further-thicker, get in earlier, and learn the habits to a point that you can overcome the public land horror. I have to use a climber, as too many of my stands " walked away" on me. If you have to set up 30 trees and blaze them, to give yourself enough options to stay one step ahead of the deer and everone else then so beit.

All I am saying is that even in heavy pressured land, it is possible to find yourself alone and over good deer - consistantly. It will take much more work than those fortunate enough to hunt private land.

You can use that as your excuse, or as your motivation.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Rack-attack brings up an excellent point about going in deeper and thicker places. I have found that a lot of hunters will not trod too far off the beaten path, especially on government owned lands. Most would rather stay close to old logging roads and trails. Some of the best places I have found to hunt have been hell to get to, but the pay off was always worth it.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Location, Location, Location is often coined as a term for year after year success in hunting. This would incompass both land and skill, IMO. You need the land or location to produce the opportunity, the skill to put yourself on the right trail and ole' lady luck to send him down that trail.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Hi,


Land!

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Knowledge

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

i think SKILL. with that comes the ability to ADAPT AND OVERCOME. i was preached this for years and believe it.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Rack......I am not debating that you have to work harder to be successful on state land. In fact that is my point.

If you have to work 2-3 times as hard to have success on state land vs private then the land is the more important factor.

If the same hunter was to put in the same time and effort I believe he would have more success on a private plot with many unpressured deer.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Atlas, You seem to be pushing the land point, but in your last post your proving that the skilled hunter is more successful to me !

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Land, good and/or lucky will come with it as long as you have good land.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I' m shocked at the number of replies that rely on " LUCK" to be of so much importance. If you rely on luck you' re not doing your homework. If you' re doing your homework and scouting and following some basic rules of scent control(even if your only scent control is hunting the wind) luck has very little to do with your success. Luck does account for some of deer and often monsters, but relying on it will account for a LOT MORE failure. It' s great if you have a prime piece of property as you have more choices. BUT, skill and diligence will allow you to make the most of what you have. I' d rather be GOOD anyday. You' ll eat more regular. The luckiest of hunters doesn' t consistantly score and score and score.... but the true hunter will.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I agree with Rack-attack.

The mottos of a local billioniare were " The harder I work, the luckier I get" and " No dream comes true until you wake up and go to work" . :)

I believe this includes scouting land, and if you are not on good land you have more work to do. Last year we found 2 new prime hunting areas by scouring arial maps and talking to the landowners. We explained what we were doing, got permission, stayed in touch thoughout the season, and then paid for a night out with their wives. We' ve already been invited back for next year. By then, maybe we will have found something even better. ;)

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

It is the 3 L' s. Location, Location, and Location

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I really would like to possess all three. I hunt private land but let me tell you that there is around 20 bowhunters that hunt the " pieces" of woods around us. Anyone can have luck at anytime. But.....The more skills you have the more luck you make. No question!
I keep hunting logs and put alot of effort into stand selections and my son doesn' t. We both shoot deer but his lack of scouting puts more meat and bigger horns in the back of my truck. Put more work in and your LUCK increases!;)

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I think SKILL is probably the most important overall. In the end, it will account for more TRUE success than LAND or LUCK. " TRUE SUCCESS" being that you worked hard and earned it.

However, I do know some knuckleheads that have very prime property....hunt a couple days a year during gun season, and almost always kill a big buck. No SKILL involved....the LAND is the main factor there (alot of big bucks running around, and they take their pick).

As far as LUCK... I' ll agree with David...and Rack...

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I did??

Read it one more time. I said the same hunter putting in the same effort will be more successful on a prime piece of land vs. the Vietnam atmosphere of the state forest.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

This statement implies that the land is what dictates your success............but you say otherwise in your post?????

If you have to work harder to achieve the same results depending on what land you are on then it is the land that is dictating your success. Same amount of effort/skill would not get you the same results on different plots of land.

Busting your nads all year may get you a monster on private land. Busting your nads all year on state land could end in frustration as you watch all your hard work go down the drain when some idiot and his friend decide to shoot at some cans while out squirrel hunting and spook everthing for a half mile with a blast after blast from a 12 gauge.

Nothing quite like doing everthing you can to eliminate human scent near your stand........only to watch as 25 hikers go by on a nature walk wearing hair spray, perfume and 20 other scents they picked up along the way.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

I agree that the land you have to hunt is very important but I feel that your skill level is more important. Just because you hunt private property does not mean the deer are not pressured. The properties I hunt there is hunting pressure all around, dogs and a shooting range. I' m sure all this activity puts some pressure on the deer.

If you put an unskilled hunter on the best piece of deer hunting land they are probably going to educate every deer within miles that something is wrong.

I compare it to this: Put the most technologically advanced bow in the world in the hands of an unskilled archer and see what happens. If they do not have the skill to shoot the bow they may as well be throwing spears.

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Well, in my heart I would love to say skill but my brain vetos that and loudly screams LAND!!! Yes skill is important. A complete dumba$$ is not going to be able to kill much even on a great piece of land. Luck is a wild card but can' t be counted on. Yes I know people who have shot huge bucks that walked out in their front yards but these things are too inconsistent to be the " greatest factor" of the three. Nothing wrong with skill but, take two guys. One is an average hunter and the other is a world class legendary hunter. Average Guy gets to hunt a private family ranch with very little hunting pressure. A place that can and has managed its deer herd for optimal antler growth over the past 10 years. World Class guy is sent to a piece of public land that is hunted hard by god only knows how many people. A place where the only rule in effect for the past 10 years is " If its brown, its down." Who kills more deer? Who kills bigger bucks? With all due respect to the Chuck Adams types of the world, the average guy in this example is going to clean world class guys proverbial clock. I have in my life hunted a combination of both private and public land. There is no contest. Killing a doe on heavily hunted public land can be more difficult than killing an 8 point on some of my familys private land. I am extremely fortunate to have at this stage of my life several thousand acres of family land to hunt and I can tell you this, the amount of pressure deer get in an area is key! Pressure like the deer receive on public land can and will drive them to more and more nocturnal hours, especially the larger bucks. I don' t care how good you are, you can' t kill deer that don' t move from their bed until 30 minutes after dark and then bury back up in a thicket 30 minutes before daylight. Stalking these bedded deer in the thick woods of Alabama is also an exercise in futility. You would have a better chance of playing pick up sticks with your butt cheeks than you would of getting in bow range of a bedded buck here. All things being equal skill would win out with the occasional lucky upset but things are never equal. I know 12 year old kids who have killed bigger bucks than I probably ever will. Better hunters than me? Pleeeaasse! Better family land than me? You betcha! Face it you are limited by the land you hunt. Like my daddy always says, " I don' t care how good a man is he can' t make chicken salad out of chicken sh#@."

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Luck is when preperation meets opportunity.Sure a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.But the " luckiest" hunters I know are usually the hardest working.A good hunter who does his homework and puts in the effort can kill deer anywere.The quality of the deer you kill and or the amount of effort it takes to be sucessfull does depend on were you hunt.If you hunt in an area that produces big deer your odds of killing one are that much greater.

CB

RE: What is most important---Skill, Luck, or Land??
 

Todd1700, I' m going to agree with you on your hunter scenario, except for the skill I feel is involved in improving your land. How do the stands get placed, how do the food plots get planted,who clears out the shooting lanes,who developes access roads, who implemented the 10 year management plan,etc. Skilled hunters !!

Now your unskilled hunter example is successful because of their hard work!!

Your skilled hunter example is unsuccessful because of some jacka$$es hunt that land.