Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

I was re-reading John Eberhart's book, Precision Bowhunting when I saw something interesting. He claims that if you can find a large scrape in late August/September that you can be close to sure that it was being maintained by a mature buck. He says you should wait for bad weather such as high wind/rain to speed scout areas looking for this type of mature buck sign.

Anyone have any thoughts/experiences with finding large scrapes just prior to the season beginning, then hunting near those scrapes the first week of season? Thanks all for any information.

Brett

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

Nope. I use to see scrapes (small little ones) about the 2nd week of September, thats the earliest I've seen them. Now I don't see them until about October. I wish I knew why it changed.

I've never heard of bucks making big scrapes that early in the year like you mentioned. Interesting.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

I dont have much knowledge on the subject but i am interested in what people have to say

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

I usually find one or two decent sized scrapes (maybe 3-4 feet across) last week of Sept. in to Oct. I put up trail cams and usually get one or 2 mature bucks on it during that time. They do seemed to be used by small bucks as well and also almost exclusivly during the night. I am still not sure if this is just this scrape area (usually under the same tree every year) of if that is when they visit these particular scrapes. I do know that for every scrape i find, no matter whether it is in the middle of the deepest hollow that I only get a handfull of daytime photos on them.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

Here are some of his quotes:

"The great thing about finding scrapes in September is that you can be almost certain that they were made by a buck with at least one breeding season behind him, yearling bucks usually do not start scraping until the rut phases"

"On several occassions in September, we haev found some early subtle activity at pimary scrape ares. This scrape acitvity is the mark of a mature buck"

He goes on to say that findng large scrapes are very difficult in the early season but if you do find them, to hunt them the first few days of the season, especially if they are along a runway to and from a food source.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

He is full of BS. I've watched yearling bucks make scrapes in September.

We get scrapes along field edges every year in september. Generally by mid october they are all abandoned. Buck travel the field edges and just get the urge to scrape now and again. Sometimes these scrapes will get fairly large, but like I said, come later in the season, these scrapes have been abandoned for ones that turn into the more active "typical" ones thebucks frequent more often.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

I think you can take John Eberhart's advice to the bank.This guy knows his s***.Do a search on him and look at all the bucks this guy has taken.Most of his bucks are taken on heavily hunted MI public land.You have to learn everything about therehabitsto consistantly take monsters like he does.

http://www.deer-john.net/index.html

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

"He is full of BS. I've watched yearling bucks make scrapes in September. "

I think he is talking about fairly large scrapes and ones that appear in "pressured" areas. He is saying that scrapes early in the season are rare in pressured areas and should be closely examined and hunted if they are large.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

As you all know the only thing predictable about deer is they are unpredictable in pressured areas.There are way to many factors that determine a deers activity from area to area region to region.Of course there are exceptions.You probably dont have the monsters in your area thats why you dont see this activity.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

"You probably dont have the monsters in your area thats why you dont see this activity."

I think that is kind of the point he is trying to make....If you find the scrapes he is talking about in areas with alot of pressure and areas without alot of monsters, then you should look at it very carefully if you do find it because not alot of other bucks could be making those types scrapes, other than 2.5+ year old bucks. And in pressured areas and areas that do not typically have big bucks, finding a 2.5+ year old is at least a step toward increasing your odds of killing a nice buck...it just kind of narrows the field down.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

Exactly.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

In my experience Whitetail behavior varies quite a bit from one area to the other. I am sure it depends on Buck to Doe ratios, Age structure, etc. While that may be true in the area he hunts. It may never hold any validity in lots of the Whitetail's range.

The 2 spots I hunt are 30+ miles apart and the rutting activity of Bucks vary widely from one area to the other. I have always thought it strange, but I have learned to adjust and I think adjusting and learning from the Bucks You hunt is the key to being successful on a regular basis.

Dan

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

Jeff,

To use your own often quoted tag line......"there are no cookie cutter answers".. It could be as simple as he didnt have to pee... Could be that he was just passing through and getting a whiff of what was in the area..

I typically don't pay much attention to scrapes, however the biggest buck Ive ever seen showed up at 10 minutes 'til dark and worked a scrape at 18yrds away, so who knows!

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

Great response Dan- What I find funny is how we often tend to listen to a successful hunter or respected biologist and hold everything they say as Gospel. One of my favorite quotes was from an article written about Karl Miller. Karl Miller went on to talk about his studies on whitetail but quickly reiterated something when he and the author went hunting and it goes something like this, "I am a deer biologist but I don't know everything about hunting". Here is a guy that lives and works with deer and the QDM program and he is quick to point out that one shouldn't expect him to go out and kill a Booner because of his knowledge.

We as humans can't even figure out the weather or each other yet some think they are experts and know everything a deer will do. You are right Dan, 30 miles can be a world apart and season to season things can drastically change. What we need to do is take what we read and use what applies to our hunt. Rattling is great but if you have a doe to buck ration that is outta whack then you might be wasting time, some areas respond to doe calls while others buck calls. You could take the best hunters in this forum and make them swap areas and you might find their success stories change in the new environment. I have a step brother that killed over 80 deer in Illinois with a bow and then moved to Arkansas, it took him three years to get his first deer once he got there, guess his Big Rock, Illinois method of hunting didn't apply:D

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

The biggest scrape I see year after year are on field edges. I'm talking ones that are 3+ feet in diameter. We put cameras on them and they get pounded by a handful of different bucks. The biggest bucks we normally get pictures of are on scrapes way back in the woods in secluded places, no matter what the scrape size.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

I agree. My best big buck scrape pictures are always taken on a scrape line that is at least a quarter mile into the woods from all roads. I see lots of little bucks hitting the feild side scrapes all year long.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

I will never say someone is full of it, It just happens to be his findings. Now Like said above you find that in Michigan he ison to something,but in Illinois where I huntlike rybo said there are scrapes up and down the field edges but we also video like 6-10 bucks in those fields togather, So you know most of te scraping activity is a night.But when you think you know it all I feel sorry for you because these critters called whitetails will humble you in a hurry. There is always more to learn in this sport called bowhunting and when someone speaks you had betterbelieve I will be listening to try and add one more thing to the arsenal!! Walt

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

Great post Walt! When a hunter thinks he knows everything and doesn't keep his ears open its time to call it quits!

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

"Great response Dan- What I find funny is how we often tend to listen to a successful hunter or respected biologist and hold everything they say as Gospel."

I am just seeking some guidance and observation from the people on here....the people that know me know that I do not hold anything anyone says as gospel....like I said, I am looking for real life examples that either support or go against some of the points I brought up in my first post. I hunt hard and long in places that do not have alot of big bucks so I am always looking to just tip the odds a little more in my favor.

Brett

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

Brett- I wasn't singling you out by any means. My point was that all too often we look for right or wrong while out in the field. We are playing a game with too many variables and nobody will ever have all the answers. What happens in Virginia could be quite different from here in Illinois. One thing that has brought me success is listening to what has driven others to succeed and applying it to my hunts. I have found many things that work and many that haven't, but in the end I learned just as much from my failures as my success.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

No problem race....I agree with you race about people looking for black and white.....I just try to learn a little here and there and apply it in the field to see how it works out. I love looking and listening to hunting related techniques and tips. For that is how I started since I had noone to take me hunting. I just read and then applied what I read in the woods. I did that over and over until I finally started getting "better". It took me a long time.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

You know what, the more I learn about Deer the more I realize how much I don't know about deer:)

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

That's what we all should do!;)

Dan

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

I read the same thing. Im not sure how much truth there is behind that though. I have never founds a scrape that early in the year. But he does have a point there.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

That is pretty much what I have whitnessed also.

Early season scrapes in my area generally mean a 2.5 or older buck. I can tell this through a few personal observations, and also tracks - which give a good general idea. When I find a cluster of scrapes before mid october in and around thicker cover I consider it part of a 'core' area of a 2.5 year old or older deer - the dominate deer in that small locale.

Two years ago I found such a place. On Oct 13 I slipped into a stand on the edge of it extra early one morning. As the sun crested the hills I had a hog bodied 9 point down after a short sparring sequence.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

I didn't mean to come across as a know it all. It just seemed that his statements were absolutes, when as we all know there are few absolutes when it comes to deer & hunting. I watch both young and old bucks go along field edges at night and make scrapes. Some of them turn out to be big scrapes. I think that could just be from being hit by multiple bucks. I've never found early scrapes anywhere other than field edges. Not saying they don't exist, I just haven't found any yet.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

Our scrapes make there first appearances in Early Oct. Although I agree with many things Eberhartproposes, my experience is not similar to his with regard to early scraping. In other words, I cannot attribute early-appearing scrapes solely to mature bucks because I have seen the little guys scraping early too.

It is most probably true where he hunts but it does not clearly apply where I hunt.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

I have never read Mr Eberhart's book but assume he is talking Primary scrapes, not to be confused with secondary or boundry scrapes. Now as MeanV said in his post, in some places scrapes are scarce to non existant and I also belive this to be because of poor buck to doe ratios. Sometimes a short drive to another hunting area can show a big difference in scrape activity.
Primary Scrapes are like any key pice of property with humans, animals or even fish, if one is removed, another will move into it's spot unless there is some sort of pressure put on them not to. A good one usually has great rub lines going to and coming from it, and you can see where the trees are scarred from seasons past, if your lucky from the same buck from seasons past. Most, Even if they are not being cleaned out or pissed in get checked during the year and you can tell by the fresh tracks and broken twigs on the branch above the scrape.
I killed a good buck back in the early 80's that was cleaning out a primary scrape for the first time that season, most hunters would have never looked at the spot twice.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

" I have never read Mr Eberhart's book but assume he is talking Primary scrapes"

Yes he is talking about large primary scrapes leading to and from feeding areas early in the season.

THANKS all for some good information on this thread. I am going to do some scouting this weekend again in some of my areas because the weather has cooled down some.....I will let you all know what I find in August and September in terms of large scrapes and how/and if I see any nice bucks as a result of those scrapes the first week.

RE: Early Season Scrapes and Mature bucks...?
 

Good Luck VS!! and do keep us informed. I think I'll get out and run a few Trail Cams this weekend as the temps are pretty nice here also.

Dan