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RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
 This guy looks like Jim Hole?? |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: GregH This guy looks like Jim Hole?? |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
He's got a solid reputation. I'd say you've got a good thing going for you! ;)
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RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: GregH He's got a solid reputation. I'd say you've got a good thing going for you! ;) |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: early in ORIGINAL: GregH He's got a solid reputation. I'd say you've got a good thing going for you! ;) |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: _Dan ORIGINAL: early in He owns and has access to 2000 acres. Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them. Let me get this straight. The bow zone is 1600 sq miles and only 60 tags. Your outfitter has over half of them and is hunting 2000 acres....or roughly 3.5 sq miles. So, say he has, conservatively, 30 tags....then he's hunting 1 hunter per 66 acres. Now, to me, with his style and with the number of hunters per acre he's educating a lot of deer with as much running in and out as he does. If my my numbers are correct and with all the info you gave, I'd look for a different outfitter that can give a better hunt more to your style. JMHO. The week he is there even if it were only2000 acres equals 333 acres/guy with 5 other hunters. Granted you are looking at the total season to get your numbers and it does play a part in the big picture no doubt. Even with driving his hunters in/out to the stand sitesfor a total of4 times a day... deer will put up with vehicles much more then hunters on foot walking in and out.Deer are great atpatterning huntersscent to a stand, around the standor busting them on the walking in or out. Not just when they are there but even after they are gone.Does a deer really pattern a vehicle since it would not really be a threat to them in this situation??They probably would get use to the vehicle intrusion just as they do agequipment here and not precieve it as pressure to my thinking.Smart onhis partin keeping pressure to a minimumfor business. Look at how much time it takes.They are probablyin and out in just minutes by his guides dropping them off and picking them up right at the stand site. We usually walkanywheres from at least a1/2 mile to over a mile toget into our spots. Who is doing more damage by leaving scent or busting deer even as careful as we try to be?? Interesting stuff and a fun " conversation ". Tim |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: TJF ORIGINAL: _Dan ORIGINAL: early in He owns and has access to 2000 acres. Before I forget, they only issue 60 non-resident tags for the Edmonton Bow Zone (1600sq miles) each year. My guide gets more than half of them. Let me get this straight. The bow zone is 1600 sq miles and only 60 tags. Your outfitter has over half of them and is hunting 2000 acres....or roughly 3.5 sq miles. So, say he has, conservatively, 30 tags....then he's hunting 1 hunter per 66 acres. Now, to me, with his style and with the number of hunters per acre he's educating a lot of deer with as much running in and out as he does. If my my numbers are correct and with all the info you gave, I'd look for a different outfitter that can give a better hunt more to your style. JMHO. The week he is there even if it were only2000 acres equals 333 acres/guy with 5 other hunters. Granted you are looking at the total season to get your numbers and it does play a part in the big picture no doubt. Even with driving his hunters in/out to the stand sitesfor a total of4 times a day... deer will put up with vehicles much more then hunters on foot walking in and out.Deer are great atpatterning huntersscent to a stand, around the standor busting them on the walking in or out. Not just when they are there but even after they are gone.Does a deer really pattern a vehicle since it would not really be a threat to them in this situation??They probably would get use to the vehicle intrusion just as they do agequipment here and not precieve it as pressure to my thinking.Smart onhis partin keeping pressure to a minimumfor business. Look at how much time it takes.They are probablyin and out in just minutes by his guides dropping them off and picking them up right at the stand site. We usually walkanywheres from at least a1/2 mile to over a mile toget into our spots. Who is doing more damage by leaving scent or busting deer even as careful as we try to be?? Interesting stuff and a fun " conversation ". Tim This leaves NO human oder going through the woods/fields. It really does make sense. |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine.
When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp. It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control. |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: tsoc I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine. When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp. It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control. |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: early in ORIGINAL: tsoc I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine. When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp. It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control. You can book fully guided rut hunts for 3k in Pike County, Illinois which is the #2 Boon and Crockett producer and likely be allowed to hunt your way with better odds of getting a solid P&Y or Booner than what I am seeing up there in Alberta. Just a little food for thought considering this thread started off because you were not fully satisfied in what your experience was. I would say if you took what you learned from Jim Hole and applied it to another area that you would have some great success and maybe more happiness in your hunt. Just a little food for thought from the Land of Lincoln;) |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
Try to breath through your nose the best you can brotha
ORIGINAL: racewayking Jeff- What does he do to cover everyone's breath? Time and time again I see people go nuts trying to hide scent but if your breath smells like crap and the deer are down wind then everything else is a wast unless you are huffing oxygen through a mask. |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: TJF Dan The week he is there even if it were only2000 acres equals 333 acres/guy with 5 other hunters. Granted you are looking at the total season to get your numbers and it does play a part in the big picture no doubt. Jeff and I talked about this via pm......and you're right, I was talking about the whole season and not just per week. Jeff had said he mispoke, so these number go right out the window......... |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: peakrut Try to breath through your nose the best you can brotha ORIGINAL: racewayking Jeff- What does he do to cover everyone's breath? Time and time again I see people go nuts trying to hide scent but if your breath smells like crap and the deer are down wind then everything else is a wast unless you are huffing oxygen through a mask. |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: racewayking ORIGINAL: early in ORIGINAL: tsoc I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine. When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp. It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control. You can book fully guided rut hunts for 3k in Pike County, Illinois which is the #2 Boon and Crockett producer and likely be allowed to hunt your way with better odds of getting a solid P&Y or Booner than what I am seeing up there in Alberta. Just a little food for thought considering this thread started off because you were not fully satisfied in what your experience was. I would say if you took what you learned from Jim Hole and applied it to another area that you would have some great success and maybe more happiness in your hunt. Just a little food for thought from the Land of Lincoln;) By the same token, I have had success ('06) as well up there hunting all day. My main goal with this thread was to see what others thought about this, and how they would handle it. My ideal scenario would be to get dropped off at my favorite stand site well before first light, and not be picked up until a half hour after dark. I'm going to see if this can arranged this season. If it can't be, I'm not going to take my ball and go home.:D I'm well aware of my options as a paying customer/hunter, but I really love this region (no tag draw) and the huge bucks that I KNOW are there. Like I say, I'm just after thoughts/opinions. So far, I think this has been a fun/educational type thread. Especially for those who might be planning their first guided hunting trip. |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: early in I'm going to see if this can arranged this season. If it can't be, I'm not going to take my ball and go home.:D |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
I've been thinking about this for a while, now.....and I have a different twist that I don't know has been addressed (that "might" make your guide's outlook/ideology seem a little more sound).
I would "think" that a hunter.....hunting in an "all day sit" type situation.....runs a "risk" of having to get down and relieve himself a LOT more than the hunter who is only sitting for 5 or so hours. If your guide's trying to eliminate as much human scent in the area as he can.....he may be banking on this. I don't know too many guys who can (or will) stay in their STAND all day. I'm also not making the assumption that human "waste" is any more discernable to the whitetail than any other animals'. I'm just making an observation. I would also "surmise" that not every hunter is as versed/dedicated/committed to their scent regimen as the guide would like for them to be. He may demand it....and, if so, I think he's doing the right thing (again....it's YOUR money.....but HIS means of making his living). He has to put another hunter in those woods after you leave. I hope the term "it's not all about YOU" isn't too harsh.....but I think you get my jist. |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: early in ORIGINAL: racewayking ORIGINAL: early in ORIGINAL: tsoc I have read quitea bit about Jim Hole.I recall him being fanatical in all aspects of his approach to hunting his area's and the the set up of equipment.I know he has been successful.I still beelieve the biggest thing is your own mental state,If you can hunt under his terms and not be second guessing any thing then fine. When some outfitters receive notoriety because of their success it actually leads to a loss in quality of their operation.They raise their outfitting fee's because of supply and demand,they over book,they may not be able to be as personally involved with all of their hunters because of increased amount of hunters in camp. It is hard for an outfitter in that regard to fight the urge for the quick financial gain to preserve the integrity of their area and their operation.If Jim Hole is as disciplined in these area's as he is in his hunting techniques I would imagine he has those things under control. You can book fully guided rut hunts for 3k in Pike County, Illinois which is the #2 Boon and Crockett producer and likely be allowed to hunt your way with better odds of getting a solid P&Y or Booner than what I am seeing up there in Alberta. Just a little food for thought considering this thread started off because you were not fully satisfied in what your experience was. I would say if you took what you learned from Jim Hole and applied it to another area that you would have some great success and maybe more happiness in your hunt. Just a little food for thought from the Land of Lincoln;) By the same token, I have had success ('06) as well up there hunting all day. My main goal with this thread was to see what others thought about this, and how they would handle it. My ideal scenario would be to get dropped off at my favorite stand site well before first light, and not be picked up until a half hour after dark. I'm going to see if this can arranged this season. If it can't be, I'm not going to take my ball and go home.:D I'm well aware of my options as a paying customer/hunter, but I really love this region (no tag draw) and the huge bucks that I KNOW are there. Like I say, I'm just after thoughts/opinions. So far, I think this has been a fun/educational type thread. Especially for those who might be planning their first guided hunting trip. |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: GMMAT I've been thinking about this for a while, now.....and I have a different twist that I don't know has been addressed (that "might" make your guide's outlook/ideology seem a little more sound). I would "think" that a hunter.....hunting in an "all day sit" type situation.....runs a "risk" of having to get down and relieve himself a LOT more than the hunter who is only sitting for 5 or so hours. If your guide's trying to eliminate as much human scent in the area as he can.....he may be banking on this. I don't know too many guys who can (or will) stay in their STAND all day. I'm also not making the assumption that human "waste" is any more discernable to the whitetail than any other animals'. I'm just making an observation. I would also "surmise" that not every hunter is as versed/dedicated/committed to their scent regimen as the guide would like for them to be. He may demand it....and, if so, I think he's doing the right thing (again....it's YOUR money.....but HIS means of making his living). He has to put another hunter in those woods after you leave. I hope the term "it's not all about YOU" isn't too harsh.....but I think you get my jist. He has a 120" min/ draw blood rule and don't recover. If you breech these rules, it cost you $300. This money goes into a fund that goes back into the whitetails of the region. He bought one of those mechanical deer that they use to catch poachers, and donated it to the local (Bow Zone) law enforcement people. And yes, I keep praising the guy because of who/what he is. It doesn't mean he has to hunt the way "I want to hunt". I'll keep hunting with him as long as I can keep affording to hunt with him. I'm like a whitetail, very adaptable.:D |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
Early in,I have read enough to know your my kind of person.I hope you have a great time and kill a brute!
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RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: _Dan ORIGINAL: TJF Dan The week he is there even if it were only2000 acres equals 333 acres/guy with 5 other hunters. Granted you are looking at the total season to get your numbers and it does play a part in the big picture no doubt. Jeff and I talked about this via pm......and you're right, I was talking about the whole season and not just per week. Jeff had said he mispoke, so these number go right out the window......... I hope my reply didn't come off as disagreeing with you. Was not meant that way. The part you quoted wasmore of" attempt" asan openerto get tothe main part of my reply. It shouldhave been worded better. Tim |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
Good thoughts as usual Jeff. A more scent concious man I've never met. He requests his guys to have a pee bottle with them. Tim |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
Hey EI....I see Jim is selling some of his allocations in the Bow Zone........[:-]
http://www.harrymccowan.com/allocations.html Look towards the bottom. |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
I didn't read the whole thing. Did you ever ask him if you could hunt all day?
Also, a mid day break and some good chow in your belly could keep you sharp and rested. I understand you wanting to get the most bang for your buck. He is successful and has a system that works. If you have faith in his ability maybe you should just go with the flow and enjoy the hunt. Mid day break and all. I have a tendancy to push myself way too hard during hunting season. From what I know of you I'll bet you do the same.Having someone to slow you down a little might be a good thing. |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
I have always been told to never guide the guide. You admit he knows his area, that he is known as being the man for big bucks in his area, and that proof of his success is lined on his walls. Why in the world would you doubt this guy? I understand where you are coming from and I believe the same as you. The only difference is, I am hunting (and I am sure you are at home as well) a very small area compared to what this guy has available to him. Look at it this way, moving locations will allow you to hunt more of a massive amount of land. What if the area you start out in the morning is a non producer. Do you really want to sit there all day then? Listen to the guide, he is still in business for a reason!
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RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: _Dan Hey EI....I see Jim is selling some of his allocations in the Bow Zone........[:-] http://www.harrymccowan.com/allocations.html Look towards the bottom. Magic, I'll look in to it when I get up there. I won't pushthe issuethough. Even though I'd prefer to sit all day, I'll hunt the way he want's me to hunt. And yes, I won't lie, it is nice to get a good hot meal in your belly after sitting in the COLD all morning. No matter what, I"M PUMPED!!!!:D |
RE: Serious Rut Question (lengthy read)
ORIGINAL: kickin_buck Why in the world would you doubt this guy? |
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