RE: Rage Broadheads
 

i dont have experience with the 2 blade which ive heard works good but ive used the three blade and lets just say i would use a rock over them [:'(]

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I still do not understand why anyone needs "massive" tissue damage. I mean, if you get 2 holes in each of your lungs or 1 hole thru your heart or liver,YOU WILL DIE. (And quickly at that)

But I don't know anything either.

LT

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Maybe it's just me, LT.....but if I'm trying toKILL something...I'd like to inflict themost damage I can while doing so. One would think that this would be a universal truth.....but, apparently, that just isn't the case.

When someone like Matt/PA cites this as his main reason for using this head....I take note. He knows some things.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

How much more damage do you want to do? Have the deer drawn and quartered when you pick him up? I just don't think I care about "maximum" tissue damage unless whatever I am shooting is after me.:D

LT

I agree that it does the damage. I disagree that it is necessary.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

LT - Has every shot you have ever taken on a deer ended up in the lungs/heart/liver? You have never put a marginal shot on a deer?

I consider myself a half decent shot and I'm fairly picky when I decide to shoot or not.......I really try to make sure that I make the best decisions on when to shoot/not shoot. With that said,I still have made some marginal shots in my bowhunting career. It should never be used as an excuse to take a bad or less than ideal shot, but I like knowing that when thing's don't work out as planned with shot placement I havea headthat will do the most damage possible. I have never seen anything do the damage that a Rage does, and I have never had any problems with them in 2 full years of using them exclusively.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I believe the marginal shot can go bad with a Rage or any broadhead. If it does maximum damage and the deer goes 2 miles and dies, is that better than marginal with a smaller amount of tissue damage? The damage done by the smaller head might allow the deer to live another day and not suffer if not recovered. Jmho

LT

There will always be variables in hunting and harvesting game. If you believe this head stacks the odds in your favor, by all means, use them.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

i shouldve known that one i got on next this thread would have exploded

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

the keyword is "variables".

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

My deer last year went about 25 yards with a 2 in. Rage. My buddy shot an antelope broadside that dropped almost on spot with the same head. Every time i hear a hunting story about a rage it always entails a deer dropping within 50 yards. Shultzy, you say you like to keep things simple. Whats more simple than not having to trail your deer all night because you put a tiny little puncture in it's lungs?

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

the "tiny little holes" that you talk about have been killing deer for millions of years. and with 2 holes in a deers lungs, that deer most likely is not making it outside of a hundred yards.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I do keep it simple! See that bear in my avatar? He dressed 325lbs and went 21 yards after I double lunged him with a 3 blade Magnus Snuffer that has an 1 4/16 cutting diameter. Tiny little hole hah, not even close! My buck I shot last fall went 50 yards, he fell in sight and he was also double lunged. He dressed out 210lbs. Thats pretty simple to me. The majority of my animals don't go over 50 yards.

I'm not a gadget guy, big deal!! I didn't knock the head, all I said was I don't want anything to do with it being its got to many other things on it to worry about it.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I didn't say that they don't kill deer. I'm just saying that they don't kill as fast and as humanely. Shultzy keeps preaching about keeping it simple and i just don't understand how using a mechanical is harder than tracking a deer that has ran 300 yards.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

if you put 2 holes through a deers lungs, most likely they are not making it to the 300 yard mark, they probably dont evenmake it past the one hundred yard mark

with 2 holes in their lungs, its basically how far they can run while holding their breath

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Look out Rory, your going to get wacked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![8D]


dstubb- Read my previous post and since when do deer go 300 yards double lunged?:eek:

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

The principle of "overkill" in a broadhead is really a pretty simple one.........Im not sure why it is debated as heavily as it is. IF you can successfully and reliably shoot a large diameter ANYTHING, ANYNAMEbroadhead why would you choose not to?

Sure the notion that pretty much any decently made sharp broadhead of any cutting diameter perfectly placed will do the job pretty much everytime is true. But the notion of "Holding back" on cutting diameter to possibly SAVE a animals lifeon a marginal hit is almost kooky IMO. So all of a sudden the very deadly head that you put through both lungs is going to keep an animal alive because you hit the edge of a lung, liver and guts? WHAT?:eek:

(And from here out in the discussion I will refer to the broadhead as simply a cutting diameter to remove the emotional response some have toward a mechanical or brand name)

If I place a broadhead anywhere east or west of a double lung hit I want 3 things:
1. A large entrance wound
2. A large EXIT wound doubling the chance of blood sign and less likely to clog.
3. a far reaching lateral cutting diameter to damage as much tissue and vessels as possible

I've said this time and again........over and over. No one head is a magic bullet replacing shot placement, and different heads are best suited to certain set ups and the energy they produce.
Just like everyone craves more speed, more energy, more draw length, and the ability to draw more weight for hunting, why would you not shoot the most broadhead that you could reliably get pass throughs on for the vast majority of shots you will see on game?
To do otherwise borders on being almost silly.

IF we are taught to shoot the most draw weight we can shoot comfortably from any position why too shouldn't we shoot the biggest sharpest broadhead we can also safely and reliably use that compliments that set up?

Is there anyone out there that is going to tell me that if suddenly there was a 2" 3 blade absolutely scary sharp fixed blade head that was guaranteed to fly like your field points and penetrated as good or better than your current head that you would scoff at it or overlook it as TOO MUCH broadhead?
LOL look at how the average person picks broadheads or comments on them..."That looks wicked" or "Man is that a mean looking broadhead!"

Take Shultzy for example (gonna use ya Shultz sorry bud;))
He's very experienced in traditional archery and has chosen his favorite broadhead very wisely.......its a large cutting diameter strong 3 blade cut on contact head(Magnus Snuffer). I'll venture to guess its the biggest baddest head he feels comfortable shooting through his heavy poundage recurve whichis packing more punch than most other trad guys. These are the biggest baddest mean arse heads that he can probably reliably use and he uses them to his advantage.
On the flip side someone with a 25" draw length and shooting only 48# from his longbow wouldn't be well advised to follow in his footsteps........that persons biggest and baddest will mean something different.

The broadhead is the killing tool........quite simply you owe it to the animal to choose one (without getting specific on brand) that compliments your set up, and game you intend to hunt while causing the most damage possible at the same time.
For some people that will be a simple 1" 2 blade cut on contact , for others like me and my 30" / 70# compound that might mean a 2" 3 blade cut mechanical head.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Fellas Fellas please... Back off Schultzy he was just stating his opinion, he never told you guys not to shoot Rage, he simply said theyr werent for him and he explained why.

I dont understand why every rage thread ends up being some big pissing contest. Its just a broadhead fellas in 2 years there will be something bigger and better. Any broadhead will kill a deer period...

Heck indians were killing with rocks on the ends of sticks for crying out loud. I think Rage makes a nice product, however they arent for me, I can kill efficiently with my muzzies, so why pay 40 dollars for 3 heads? To each his own....

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I've NEVER used an expandable head. I like to keep things simple! ;)

As a matter of fact, I'm going to REALLY keep things simple by just using my field points. You know, they fly just like....... well, field points!

Since 1995, I've been using Wasp SST Hammers. Beautiful broadheads. I can't see fixing something that ain't broke.

They worked great on my turkey as well, very durable.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Maybe i should have said a single lung or any bad shot. Period a 2" hole kills faster than a 1" hole. More oxygen and blood loss = faster death!

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Not necessarily. If the lungs don't collapse, they will continue to function. Arrows kill by hemmorage, not suffocation....largely anyway. And, a deer can, and will, run a good long ways on 1 good lung.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I did try the 2 blade Rage myself last year. I shot 2 deer one was a bad hit low in the gut. Sorry but the more you hunt the more chance you will have of making an erra and a bad hit. It happens. The Rage 2 blade opened up the whole stomac and all the intestens fell out. The deer dragged its intestins about 40 yards and died. the other a double lung hit the deer went 75 yards and piled up. I like these broad heads and I will continue to use them as the hole they put in an animal is unbeliveable, and I am not pefect and could put a bad shot again acidently like I said it happens. I did find that you have to be careful as they do open easly but I am sure they are working on this issue. my 2 cents

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I haven't used rage for this reason. I'd definately give Rage a try if I came across some cheap ones

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Mobow Mobow, thats why Rory said most likely!;) We all know a single lung can go a long ways at times. I do understand though where you were going with this.:D

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I'm not going to say one of the dumbest things said but it might be the strangest.

What you're saying is that the Rage does too much damage and on a marginal shot that it will die but you might not find it compared to a smaller head that might not do much damage which might allow the deer to live?

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Does the 3 blade cut as much surface area as the 2 blade? It could be close!

(whoops sorry Greg, haven't figured out how to use the internet yet. LOL)

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

If broadheads mattered half as much as some of you guys act like they do - we'd all be in major trouble. LOL

Honestly,I could go into the broadhead aisle at cabela's blindfolded, and randomly pick a half-dozen of anything off the shelf, and I'd lay a hefty wager that it wouldn't affectmy results either way.

I've killed deer with:
[ul][*]Satellite 125's[*]Satellite 75's[*]Punchcutter mechanicals[*]Puckett's bloodtrailers[*]Kolpin Twisters[*]Muzzy 100's[*]Muzzy 90's[*]Triska[*]A couple different kinds of Rockets[*]Bear - c.o.c. w/bleeders[*]Montecs[*]Thunderheads[/ul]
And guess what: None of them made a chittin bit of difference.

There have been a hell of a lot of lost deer blamed on the broadhead, but most of those situations were "user error" and not bona fide failure to perform.

You guys and the neverending broadhead debates really crack me up. Honest to god, I killed a doe with a practice head.

If you make a good shot, there isn't a broadhead out there that won't get the job done.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Greg,
I have no scientific proof to back it up other than my own experience but I truly believe it is the lateral cutting diameter that does the trick.......the reaching out and slicing as much tissue VS simply more blades and "cutting surface" that seems to drop an animal faster.

If you take a head with a two blade 2" cutting diameter (or more on impact) and compare it to say a 1" fixed head but for giggles throw 10 blades on that 1" diameter head and increase the "cutting surface" by whatever that math is?.........LOL :eek::D you are still only damaging an area 1" laterally and affecting a smaller area.

Sort of like the absolute extreme you can think of (and I know it sounds rediculous but I think it has some merit in the "Diameter vs, Surface" arguments)
Take a broadhead with a 24"two blade cutting diameter (yes I said 2 FOOT cutting diameter. :D) and hit a deer with the blades straight up and down with enough energy to pass through...........you've effectively cut the poor sucker in half and the track job will for all intents and purposes be a relatively short one. ;)
Now take a broadhead with a 1 1/2 cutting diameter and throw enough blades on that puppy to equal 24" worth of "Cutting surface", just stack as many in there as your heart desires..........

Which one caused more damage?

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Best post in this thread.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I agree!

The cutting surface is dictated many timesby simply adding blades.

A 1" cutting diameter 8 blade BH would have:

1. 1" cutting diameter
2. 4" cutting surface

All the damage caused by the cutting surface would happen in a very small area, the 1" cutting diameter area.

A 2" cutting diameter 2 blade would have:

1. 2" cutting diameter
2. 2"cutting surface

The damage being done is in a much larger area, a2" cutting diameter area


By simply adding bades you can increase the cutting surface but it will do NOTHING for the cutting area (diameter). The cutting diameter more directly correlatestothe size and amount of damaged inflicted on an animal.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Matt, I understand what you're saying, and to a point i agree. I believe that the larger cutting DIAMETER will reach out and hit something you would have missed otherwise, say an artery. BUT, IMO the larger cutting surface would benefit as well. Simply put, more cut = more blood.

But, as is the case w/ nearly 100% of the archery industry, it's all personal preferance, and one's school of thought. There's just no question any well placed head is gonna kill a deer.....the heads I shot last year didn't have that large of a CD, but it's a 4 blade, and it honestly looked like someone took a 1 1/8" drill bit and drilled a solid hole through that deer. That thing bled like a stuck hog....

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

quik, what kinda practice head?

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Muzzy.

I accidentally pulled the practice arrow from my quiver.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Matt, I tried to edit your post but I didn't have the power.......[>:]

Anyway, I think I get your point..........

Which does more damage? Chopping your victim in half with a sword or just impaling your victim with said sword.

Right?!! ;)

For me, the jury is still out on the cutting length vs cutting diameter.

It is agreed that any well placed shot with any BH will do the job just fine. So now we must be talking about marginal to poor shots. This always boils down to the pros and cons of BH style (mech vs fixed).

which one ....

has the best penetration....

is least likely to glance off of a rib or bone.....

could or could not open in flight...

is more prone to losing a blade when contacting something hard (bone)....

The list goes on. If one kills game faster, to what degree?

I remember hearing that something with less moving parts would be more trouble free.

To me, the difference between the two is almost like splitting hairs (except for the seemingly greater possibility of something going wrong with the mech).

For now I will stay with my trusty, time prooven, reliable fixed blade BH.

Did I mention time prooven and reliable!!?? [:-]

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I am not nor was I referring to a "notion" to possibly save an animals life. Let us refer to the "marginal hit". Say you shoot a 12 point 200" bruiser and get a "marginal hit". Say above the lungs, deer ducked the shot. Now with the 2" rage you may only slice open the deer's back causing a frustrating tracking job and no deer, until infection possibly sets in and the deer unkowingly dies. Now, let's say you make the same shot and you are shooting the small, insignificant 1 1/4" cut fixed blade. Chances are, it will either be a complete miss or a hair shaver, from which the deer will likely survive to be hunted again. I am saying that I would rather have a dead recovered deer than a lost miserable, suffering, infected one. That is all. Yes, things can happen with both types of broadhead. The chances for something going wrong with someones broadhead of choice is their/my decision. No one else's.

I am comfortable shooting a deer at close range with a Smith/Wesson 44 MAG too, but why should I do that when I can safely and efficiently do it with a 4 blade broadhead. I mean the 44 MAG "will" inflict "maximum tissue damage". We over analyze the effects of a broadhead I say. Quick's post pretty much summed it up. I do want a reliable broadhead, but to say the 2" cut is necessary to inflict necessary "maximum" tissue damage is absurd. I know a guy once who got cut up with a 1/2 knife blade so bad you would have thought a grenade hit him. I'm just sayin'.

See above^.

LT

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I learned this from the King : I'm stepping out of the norm here and quoting myself from back on page 1.... see below in bold...! [8D]:D :D:D:D

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Ya know.....I'd say this if it was anyone.....but really....that's about themost assinine jibberish I've read on here in a long time.

Isn't there an old saying about opening your mouth....and removing all doubt?[8D]

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Question for ya Joe. I never once said they are bad heads but I did say I would never shoot them for the reasons I listed earlier. I've never shot them but I've got friends who've tried them, these friends are good bow hunters who know there equipment. I figured I'd mention that so people wouldn't think they were just any dumb ass. Some of the people on here who've used them have said the same exact things that friends of mine have said and them were and are the same reasons I wouldn't shoot them. Like I said earlier, to many screws (1 is to many for me), o rings, bands, etc for my liking. I knew that from day one when I looked at them the 1st time that I didn't care much for them from the reasons I just listed. I never said they were bad heads but there just not what I would like to carry in my quiver whether I'm shooting a compound or recurve. I've got reasons for not shooting allot of other broad heads also but I don't get jumped as bad as I do from some of the people who shoot these Rage heads. Was I wrong? I figure I can ask you that and get an honest answer from you being we get along good. I won't knock others for shooting them. I could really care less what people use.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Are you kidding me? You don't shoot a compound bow! OF COURSE you're not going to shoot it (Rage). That would be stupid.

It would be as assinineas me going into a gun hunting thread and talking down a particular load ......then stating "Well....if I were to shoot a gun....I think that load's a piece of ****....and I wouldn't shoot it".

Now.....what's the chances I go gun hunting this fall? Probably about the same as you going compound hunting.;)

I simply tire of people with NO FIRST-HAND knowledge of a particular product coming into threads and makign derogatory comments about it. I have NO idea why it happens with this head all the time, either. No idea. Hell I'm not in love with the BH.....I just don't understand the phenomenon of animosity (geared at the BH)it brings out (when discussed).

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

Looking at them was enough for me to make my mind up on what I thought of them!! So what your saying is the knowledge from other people is no good whether its good or bad???? You don't have to drive a car to know if you want it. When you look at it and see something you don't like on it you don't buy it!! Plain and simple!!!!!!!!!!!! Get over it already.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I think it was Donald Fagan who said (in an old Steely Dan song).....

"The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"

So now a self-described "opinion"....based on looks....is "knowledge"?

Have a great weekend.

RE: Rage Broadheads
 

I have only tried them on two turkeys this spring. they work great and i was impressed with them. They fly just like field points wich is a plus. ps: they leave a hell of a hole :DI was using the two blade 100 grain. cant wait to try them on deer :)