A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

Why is it that the whitetailed deer - intelligent and wily in every possible respect - can't seem to associate danger with cars and roadways?

These are animals that can pattern a hunter in a couple days. They can successfully evade armies of gun hunters, predators, starvation, disease... But they can't get out of the way of a speeding car? Why?
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I have a theory - and it may be flawed, but it's my best guess: Since deer who live in and around roadways see/hear traffic all day everyday - and 99% of the time, that traffic is not an actual threat - they don't view it as a threat, ever.

Compare/Contrast a would-be hunter invading their bedding area, which is a more intrusive event.

But it stands to reason that a deer who witnesses another deer in an auto collision - or sees the dead carcasses along the roadway - it should be able to make the logical connection between motor vehicles and danger, right?

One would just think, from an evolutionary or learned behavioral standpoint - that whitetails would know by now that standing in front of a speeding car is a great way to get themselves killed.

Do you guys think that deer are becoming more "intelligent" with regard to roadways and motor vehicle traffic? Are they progressing at all?

Do you think a wild whitetail is any more "streetwise" now, as compared to a wild whitetail 30 years ago?

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

My opinion - Vehicles move to fast for them to comprehend. Plus, the headlights freeze them.

Same thing could be said about squirrels. They live amongst cars more than deer but, if you ever saw one on the road as you approached (I am sure you have LOL) he seems to go ape**** and forget how to run away. He just runs back and forth trying to figure out what to do til he gets squished.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

No, they are animals incapable of reasonable thought, beyond predatory instinct for survival. The car is not ingrained in them. (or rabbits, or possums and apparently coon are wayyyy down on the list!)

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

The one time that the car is a serious threat they end up like that picture in your 1st post! I guess they can't live and learn so to speak....;):D:D

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

I get blasted everytime I say this.....but we're not dealing with an animal that can "reason".

I hear how they can discern "hunters" from people walking....and I ask...."Why not just wear a track suit hunting, then?".

When it comes right down to it, Fran.....I think we give these animals WAYYYyyyyy too much credit, sometimes.

Are they hard to kill? Sometimes. Are some of them harder to kill than others? Sure.....there are fewer of them. It's a numbers game.

Do they "react"? I think so. Do they "learn"?Jury's out.

A big mature buck can avoid a hunter who's practically (I siad "practically") scent-free...."Practically" invisible........but he don't know that the thing that killed 12 of his buddies ....the thing with the lights.....will kill him, too?

"Roads" scholars (pun intended).....they're not.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

I think your theory is pretty dead on. Deer learn to associate certain things with danage. A deer in the wild knows that human scent equal bad news, so they avoid that location when that scent is detected. The only curve to this is when you look at deer in a park where hunting is not allowed. However, if hunting is not allowed, then the deer have never had to associate human scent with danager. I know when I used to farm, it was very common to have deer walk right up to you while bailing/mowing/raking hay, combining corn or beans. I guess they don't view the scent of the exhaust as a treat, which would explain why so many of them end up in ditches, or worse yet, in someone's front seat.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

The automobile has only been around for a hundred years or so, and the deer for thousands. Evolution takes awhile so eventually they will be afraid im sure

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

KB.....how does a hunted deer associate human scent with danger?.....and the deer in the park smells the same thing and isn't afraid?

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side, just like deer's!
I don't think the deer took a good mathmatics class...

If a train was traveling from Eugene, Oregan @ 75 miles per hour, but made two stops along the way each lasting 15 minutes.
How long would it take the train to reach the Throgs Neck Bridge in New York.

WHAM! Next thing you know you get hit by a vehicle, S.O.B. - now that's a bad day and will probably leave a scar.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

The odds are against them. There are a lot more deer,k a lot more auto's and less habitat. Put two and two together and you get more deer/auto collisions. I do think that some individual deer can become more street savy. I think if a large culvert were available some of the smarter ones would use it to go under the road.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

Thats a very interesting thought. I've actually seen that come up many times in animal behavior discussions. The consensus seems to be that cars are still too new in the evolutionary history of animals. I'll buy that argument, but it still seems hard to completely understand. Hunters walking up on a deer are close to natural predators. Therefore, they can quickly adapt and change behavioral pattern due to increasedhunting pressure. Actually, I guess hunters could be considered natural predators now; it's been going on for a long time. The argument I've heard is that in the evolutionary history of most mammals, there has never been a predator such as a motor vehicle. Maybe we are currently witnessing natural selection inaction.

That would be a neat study. Not sure it would be possible with the ever increasing traffic volume.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

I know this to be true. I've seen it. I don't know whether they're "smarter" or "lazier", though. The culvert is the path of least resistance.;)

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

There could be some validity to the learning angle. Think about it, how many P&Y bucks end up road kill? And when they do, what time of year is it? The rut, when they are more concerned with getting tail than taillights.If thethread about hitting deerwould have included how old the deer was, buck/doe then we might have a betteridea. Every collision I've been a part of was a young deer.

Then again, there's the numbers game that GMATT mentioned as well, not many P&Y deer, not many killed by car.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

Deer have been hunted for as long as they have been around so they grew weary of humans, they havnt had enough time to become weary of vehicles yet. Also, most roads do not drive right through their bedding areas and feeding grounds like hunters do.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

I LIKE YOUR IDEAS...BUT HERE IS ONE OF MINE...DURING WINTER MONTHS ALOT OF MINERALS ARE ALONG THE ROAD WAY. ALSO STATE ROAD CUTS THE GRASSES ALOT ALONG THE HIGH WAY AND PLANTS FLOWERS IN WV. = BETTER FOOD SOURCES. FOR EXAMPLE, AT MY FEEDERS I CAN SHOOT A DEER, WHILE OTHERS ARE WATCHING AND THEY STILL COME BACK...DO TO THE FOOD SOURCE ON THE GROUND..ALSO ALONG THE HIGHWAY IF ONE DEER SPOOKS AND RUNS THEY ALL GO IN EVERY DIRECTION.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

WV - Pennsylvania DOT has this fixation with planting delicious flowers, lushgrass and clover mixesand even APPLE trees along the roadways. Talk about an attractive nuisance. LOL

Then, the evening news tells us to "be careful and watch for deer on the highways." How about not planting a smorgasbord in the damn highway embankment?

And you're right - they definitely like the salt at the edge of the pavement.

But still - one would think that if a deer watches his mother/brother/sister get plastered by a semi on the highway, he might be able to draw the connection between vehicles and danger.

Greg - you suggest that some deer might be smarter than others. I agree with that. But I'm not sure ifcertain deer aren't just more adept at avoiding roadwaysas a beneficial side-effect of their reclusive personality - or if they're actually avoiding the roadway intentionally due to the danger that they'reassociating with it.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

Roadways can actually attract deer. That is why spotlight deer surveys along roads often overestimate numbers. The right of ways are often mowed to increase visibilityand make it prettierfor motorists. Deer are early successional species that prefer to feed on weeds and "fresh" grass. Mowing creates the disturbance to the plant communities that stimulate weed and grass growth. Like it was stated previously, we are actually creating habitat "food" for deer on roads thereby increasing our own chances of a collision.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

I've got to agree with GMMAT on this one, I don't beleive that deer have a brain that is capable of reasoning that a car is dangerous. I think that the reason that they are soalert in the woods would be like you and mewalking down the street and passing a "thug" and not thinking twice about it but if we get home and the same "thug" is in our house it become flight or fight. It's a survival instinct.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

when a deer in the park smell human scent its something they've smelled over an over an over they know it an they've never been in danger or heard the loud boom an lost a buddy.....the deer in the woods smells scent then hears boom boom boom an then down one buddy.....the next time they smell it they aint stickin around to here boom boom boom...... but im sure you will have some betterexpliantion to this....

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

Well played...

I agree with your post, we are at the top of the food chain for a reason, and not them.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

That's a valid theory....but what about areas of bow-only hunting? Would this (and I'm asking) change your opinion? What's the difference in a man with a bow and a kid with a fishing rod making noise? And....what is that deer associating danger with in regards to the bowhunter?

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

You're all giving the deer too much credit. Everything is learned and instinctual behaviour. When i go morel hunting in the local forest preserves I can get within 10yds of a deer, sometimes the young ones follow me around. These deer and their generations of anscestors have never been hunted. I pose no threat to these deer.
Eye contact is another thing. If you're still hunting and looking around and meet the gaze of a deer,they flee. If you're walking casually past they often will stand and watch you pass. I believe Fred Bear used this tactic. Walk calmly past a deer, draw,turn and release. (I read that somewhere, probably on here. )

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

I think some deer are getting smarter. Also think they loose some of their 'smarts' when they are trying to flee something... My aunt and uncle had a couple of mature deer that were hanging out behind there house in their trees a couple of years back. They lived right next to a highway and she said that the deer would come to the edge of the road and look both ways and then cross :D

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

ive always wondered that very thing quik....

every summer we watch the crop of bucks grow and get pumped and within a couple weeks of the rifle opener we hear about ALOT of the ones we knew about being ironed out on the roads...yes, i know thats when they get dumb and do the seeking/chasing of the does etc...

ive noticed alot of deer ironed out here real recently...alot of them looked to be yearlings...searching for food? i dont know...

still alot of older deer get ironed out yearly...you really would think theyd know better...and sometimes i wonder why in the world they tried to cross the highway when theres 10000s of acres of woods on their side of the road and nothing is visibly different that would draw them to the other side...

i think it may always be a mystery...alot more deer cross the roads than anyone knows about im sure...maybe they just figure "i did it 1000x before...." "SPLAT!!!"

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

same reason people still get killed by hitting each other with cars. deer (and people) need to get somewhere, any the vast majority of time they spend on a road is safe and accident free. however, rarely, the stars (or cars) line up in just such a way as to have two objects trying to occupy the same space at the same time. I imagine the first time a lot of deer get that close to a fast moving car is also the last. many are killed, and those that get injured or near missed are likely to take cars more seriously in the future, even if they don't truly learn to avoid them.

RE: A question that I just can't seem to answer...
 

I think these go hand in hand!? Can danger cause reclusivness?