Related to Greg's post
 

I myself have a long way in becoming an excellent 4.5+ year old mature buck hunter. I think I'm an average hunter hunting these big guys (4.5's and up). I see them here and there (30 to 40 yards out) but getting them in bow range for my recurve (20 yards) for me is the next step. I think I'm advanced on the 3.5's and I have them some what figured out but man is it tough getting these big guys (4.5's) in front of me in shooting range. Its a whole new level of hunting that I've been learning hunting these older mature bucks, I'm learning but its a slow and sometimes painful process! What I'm asking is whats the next step in hunting these big guys or just deer in general for you? What do you feel you have to do to get where you want with your deer hunting? For me its getting these 4.5's another 10 to 20 yards closer. How am I going to do that? Better stand placement (try finding that exact tree instead of being off 30 yards or so) is where I'm going to start and we'll see if it pays off this fall. I'm going to pay more attention to the little things this year, small little trails, escape routes, sneak trails that are right below my nose that I'm not paying close enough attention to. What I just high lighted is what worked for me this last year so we'll see if it works again. Maybe I was just lucky too. Maybe some of your ideas will help one of us.

The whole point of this thread is to see what everyone else is going to do this upcoming year on getting to that next level. This thread has nothing to do with me, I was just stating what I'm going to try and do to get to that next level. Thats what I want to hear from everyone else.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

Sounds like you have a plan Steve. Man ifhehad only been a little closer or if that limb had not been in the way. I hear ya!

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

A guys gotta start somewhere I guess.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

Even with ideal stand placement getting an old buck within 20 yards of your stand is tough. They don't follow the same trails every time. They can decide to trot through your shooting lane. They can turn towards or away from you as you draw back and not give you a shot. I truly believe that once you get to a certain level of knowledge and skill it comes down to 2 things: time in the stand and luck. From what I have read from you, it seems like you are only a lucky break away from a real monster.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

Those trails you spoke of are some of the things I look for when scouting and tracking , a secondary travel route just might lead you in to a spot you otherwise might have overlooked.
Some trails off a major travel route will take you in to their prime core area were others may lead you in the thickest part of the woods whereno other hunter would even think of going in.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

I use funnels for this. I set up in spots where the deer almost HAVE to cross. It usually takes a couple of years to find these places, but it pays off in the end. In Farm country I've said that it takes me 2 full crop rotations to really know the land and how the deer travel it. That's about 4 years. Then I monitor and scout the land to keep up with the changes.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

Not sure about your deer population or the amount of people in your area hunting (mine is high and heavy) but I have found if you hunt the does, the bucks will follow.

But then again, 4.5 years olds are what we are finally getting to in my area, so there aren't that many around, (hopefully 2-3 from the sheds and deer I saw at the end of the late bow season, will be around this upcoming season) and with around 200 acres to hunt, there isn't alot of places you can go.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

Shultzy - I think you and I are close in assesing where we are as hunters and recognizing the significant gap between killing a 3.5 yo as compared to an older deer. I mentioned in Greg's thread that I can kill a 3.5 yo any year I choose. I stand behind that statement, but I couldn't have said that 5 years ago.

I have learned how to minimize my impact of coming and going from stands, the disciplineto create and honor sancturies, choosing when to hunt(i.e weather patterns) so as to not wear an area out, etc as the reason that I think I am capable of seeing and killing more 3.5yo deer than what I used to.

As far as progressing to the next level, if i knew I would already be there.;)But the three I am committed to focusing on the most is to
1) quit shooting 3.5 yo deer so as to increase my chances the next year.

2) find more places to hunt so that I can reduce pressure in my hot spots even more so than already and be even more selective when I go into these areas.

3) When I do hunt my hotspots that are not in but close to bedding areas, I am committed to getting there a full two hours before daylight in hopes of not bumping the mature deer that is probably nocturnal to begin with but maybe I catch him still milling/browsing around right at start of legal shooting time.

But I've got to be hunting somewhere. I don't see myself as ever being disciplined enough to significantly reduce my days afieldin order to maximize my chance at a sure enough mature deer.

If it is between less overall hunting or only killing 3.5 yo deer, I will opt for the 3.5 yo and more days afield and accept my limiations. But in the meantime, I am getting more places to hunt and am going to spread it out as much as possible.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

We think alike on this allot. Our assessments of mature bucks generally fall in that 4.5 year old class when were comparing intelligence or that 6th sense to that of a 3.5. People are entitled to there opinions but this has always been my way of thinking too.

This right here is what I'm looking for folks. Answers like Jack said here. What are you going to do to try and get to that next level? Thanks Jack for answering the question to the thread.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

I started incorperating your steps for the last three seasons. The first year that I passed on 3 1/2s, 4 of them would've made P&Y. However, I learned an awful lot that year including that by having patience I'd see more, older bucks.

The one part of your step that I do not folow is getting there 2 hours before daylight. I like to get there 10 minutes before shooting light. The reasons are that there is less time for my scent to disperse, most times I can see a bit better and get to my stand without bumping deer and most of all, it won't kiil me to hear something and not know what it is!! [:-]

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

I agree with all of this.

This, too. I've said it before....I don't target mature bucks. I hunt does. Sooner or later (evidently) one comes looking for the other.....and you get your chance.

I could be all wrong and run through several years of no luck with one of these guys. If so...I'll change my approach. As long as it's working, though,........I'll continue to hunt the does.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

Mature deer are so rare on my properties, they hardly warrant any special attention. You may go years without seeing one, in person or on camera. In 5 years of using a camera, I've gotten about 3 bucks I would consider mature..

I typically concentrate on terrain features that deer like to use to move from place to place. Depending on time of the year, I may concentrate on food..

I just like to keep it fun while also utilizing a strategy to keep my pressence as unknown as possible... Given the areas I hunt, luck plays the biggest role in whether i tag out or not. Most years I don't.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

I am not advocating this on all stands, just the ones that are dangersously close (100-150 yards)to the edge of known bedding areas that I will only hunt a couple of times at most when the conditions are right and its during the rut.

It is arguable that maybe these areas should never be hunted at all inrespect to honoring sanctuaries, but right or wrong I have been hunting these a few times each season.

Keep in mind that our country is fairly openso slipping in right before daylight or even after daylight without bumpingis precarious at best in that deer can be traveling through a corridor by as much as 250-350 yards away snd certainly from 100-200 yards from me and still see/hear me.

Hopefully most of my scent concerns are taken care of by waiting for the ideal weather conditions. My hope is that I'll get there before the complete nocturnal deer that may show up 1 hour before daylight but then later in the morning, I will catch himas he gets up to browse or becomes enamored with a doe, etc..

This is my thought process even though I may be wet all over, but it will be something different. All I know for sure that I have not had much sucess in NOT bumping deer trying to come into these areas from 1 hour before orat daylight. But I welcome any suggestions.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

I agree with Greg. There is no need (IMO) to get to stand 2 hrs. early. While the attention to that detail is applaudable I dont see it as gospel. Example: your in stand two hrs early and the buck your after is still mostly nocturnal. You here him pass thru and get on the down wind side of your setup. He knows your there and will scoot 50 yards around that spot the next day. Like Greg I am in the stand about 10 minutes before legal shooting light.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

Interesting....I'v ealways (after trial and error) done what Jack does. I've gotten to stand a lot earlier than 2 hr shy of first light. I only do this in one spot......but that happens to be the spot I've killed my two best bucks (and I've had the last one go by me both in the dark and in the light of day.....and I still got him.....later).

I used to bump a lot of deer going in later. I even waited until AFTER light to go in there a few times....and that worked well.

I use a path to get in that they don't "usually" cross.....and I only go there on mornings when it's pretty cool....and I feel like my thermal/scent is going "up".

Like jack....if I'm wrong I'm wrong. I always thought it was hurting nothing....and I know I was less intrusive. I looked at it like getting to their house while they were AT LEAST an hour from home. What could be the harm?

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

I think the location in the woods your hunting makes a difference too on when you should be out there. I don't know about you guys but the moon plays a big part with me on when I get out in the morning weather it be early, later, or not going out at all sometimes. Full moon and mornings with me have been down right worthless.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

For the most part, so have full moon nights! [&o]

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

I don't think there is a right or wrong. I don't sneak to my stands in the dark.In fact I want to spook what ever is in ear shot before I get to my stand. I never want to be busted there. When I go back in the afternoons (in daylight) I sneak back very slowly because I can see whats ahead and a couple of times have even got shots at nice unsuspecting bucks. You can't fool a bucks nose and if he smells you in the dark his hand is on top of the bat.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

I've been in early, it's worked. I use scent lok though.:Dyuk yuk yuk.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

The only thing I'm doing 2 hours before daylight is sleeping! You guys are nuts!

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

Iwanted toask when deer generally come back to bed but I suppose it alldepends on the area, time of year, weather, and moon phase.

And you know, I think I'll try the 2hr before first light thing next year. There is a spot I hunt that is basically the bedroom. Each of the 3 or 4times I tried to sneak in there 45min before sun-up, I've spooked deer, sometimes dozens (literally) of them.

To answer the post question, I'm looking for faint trails that run parallel to main trails.

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

To get to the next level we are currently:

-Shooting more and more does.
-Fertilizing our food plots, examining what works best.
-Since we will be on our new property this year, really mapping everything out and finding patterns.

This was a great thread!

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

Funnels in travel spots has always been a good choice for me during the cruising stage. Steve more Bucks are killed by Luck than skill every year. The big key is time spent in the woods. Give me a nimrod hunter that can stay with it and every minute of daylight and a seasoned pro that only gets to hunt weekends and I'll put my money on the nimrod every year as long as they are hunting comparable ground. That's another big factor, property you have access to.

Dan

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

Guys
I find walking in an hour before has been a good thing as the deer are still out on the fields where I hunt,your right that the bucks are 1st back as they like to be alone during the rut. When I walk into a bedding area to hunt I'll walk 10 steps and grunt as I'm walking and stopto listen. I'll start and stop till I get to my stand and have found this really makes the deer feel more safe.
I've actually had deer come out to the trail and see me at 10 yards and not bolt. I'll then snort wheeze if I hear a snort telling me I've been scented. This tacticreally seems to relax them . This is all on trial n error guys and I've done this for 12 of the 15 years I've bow hunted . It works great for me, before hand I was walking in andgetting busted all the time.Give it a try ,and also I'll only start this procedure with in a 100 yards of the bedding area I'm hunting.
Also look for their bedding areas on the side of a south side slope as this is the warmest spot during daylight areas so they don't use up so much body heat. Plus look for the gnarliest bush along that slope and I'll guarantee that's his bedding area, I haven't shot the biggest deer in the world, but have takena few in the 170 plus range and some in the 160 range and lost a 200 plus buck this past season on a 12 yard shot,that I may still find as I can't believe he isn't dead on a 12 yard 1/4ing away shot that the arrow was buried to the fletching behind the shoulder. Tons of blood for 70 yards then nothing[:o]
Best time to find these bedding areas are right now while you still have some snow in thebush showing you the trails to and from bedding areas. Don't be shy and think that tight bush ahead of ya could hold a deer as they are the spots that we walk bye and bye each timeout with outeven a glance. All the time he canbe in his bedand watch you go by and walk out behind you. I've seen this a few times too:DGood luck and good shedding and hopefully you'll find some honey holes for next season. Give it a shot if you haven't tried it Shultzy.
Rocky

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

I am at the hunting stage where I am looking to kill 8 pointers or better, 3.5 year olds or bust. I have the spent the last 5 years out of the 15 years I have hunted, slowly increasing my knowledge of hunting to the point where I expect to be on decent deer each year for my personal goals, which has been 6-8 pointers. I am seeing more things in the woods and relating the evidence to seeing more deer, and bigger bucks. It has been a slow process but I think it has been slowly paying off.

I have been working very hard this off-season on my scouting, and have already found at least 3 new spots with a great deal of potential, based on the buck sign, and the sheer distance these places are from where I believe most people would quit walking into the woods to hunt.

Scent control for me needs to improve. I have always been good, but the last couple of seasons I have slouched a little in terms of wearing my hunting clothes in my truck on the way to the hunt. I never walk in restaurants or anything with my hunting clothes on, but just sit in my truck. I KNOW that is not good but when I am tired, I get sloppy as we all do I guess. I am going back to changing into my hunting clothes when I get to my hunting spot.

I will not invade prime bedding areas until the right time...NOT even once. This is something I have done over the last 4 years and it has paid off in 3 good bucks for me and my personal goals. I will even take it one step farther this year in that I will kind of get a game plan for all my hunting spots, based on the time of the season in relation to the rut, and hunt systematically with some flexibility based on the current buck sign.

I will do things others wont to get deer. I have begun using my kayak to scout remote parts of the lakes I hunt around....I will use a tree saddle this year to slip in and hang quietly in the mornings to try and take some lower pressured bucks.....

Enough of my ideas, I have alot to learn...........

shadow

RE: Related to Greg's post
 

Good post Shadow! I like your way of thinking.;)