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Bowtech questions

Old 03-12-2008, 01:33 PM
  #51  
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Default RE: Bowtech questions

ORIGINAL: quiksilver
Nobody mind Jeff - he's angling hard for the next "corporate staff" gig.
Don't knowif you're kidding about that, but it's funny anyway.

Back to your discussion quik, I agree the prices of bows are high, but it's all supply and demand, I mean check the lead time on many new bows - in some places it is several weeks meaning faster than they can make them, people are buying them. Now if you saw new bows collecting dust on the shelves, the price would eventually come down but until that happens, they'll keep getting as much as they can.

Example: check my signature - to my knowledge I was the first to buy the '07 T/C Triumph in my area. I did so anticipating they would sell out fast. Guess what, they didn't and 3 months later they went on sale. They were overpriced tobegin with so the market ended up balancing itself out.
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:37 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: Bowtech questions

Capitalism isn't ripping people off, Jeff. It's free market pricing. Once you start hiding information, tampering with pricing, and playing games with geographic dealerships - you're going away from true "Capitalism" and leaning toward "Collusion."

Which is why they guard this information with their lives. Their financial livelihood depends on it.

Look around - in case you haven't noticed - our good friend Bowtech_shooter is avoiding this thread like the plague. He knows the stakes.

However, just like his financial livelihood depends on the situation remaining at the status quo - there are 100,000+ people out there whose finances are alsoat stake.

Capitalism is a two-way street, Jeff.
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:44 PM
  #53  
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Capitalism isn't ripping people off, Jeff. It's free market pricing. Once you start hiding information, tampering with pricing, and playing games with geographic dealerships - you're going away from true "Capitalism" and leaning toward "Collusion."
I don't givea crap who you're talking about, Fran....you're just doing so in a VERY underhanded manner.

Who are YOU to say who's ripping someone off.....or that people are, indeed, getting ripped off? Who's complaining? The only one I see is you.....and you're not even a customer.

Once you start hiding information, tampering with pricing, and playing games with geographic dealerships - you're going away from true "Capitalism" and leaning toward "Collusion."
Objection. Also...slanderous (the implication). They told you why they couldn[t divulge information. You just choose to spin it.

Capitalism is a two-way street, Jeff.
You mean it's OK....as long as you tell me how much profit you're making off of me????

That's downright ridiculous. I mean ridiculous.

If you can't handle the fact that you're not going to get the information you seek......and realize that you don't DESERVE it for any reason other than those self-implied.......

WALK AWAY. It is that simple.
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:55 PM
  #54  
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I didn't say that anyone colluded on anything. I just said that it approaches collusion when you start protecting dealerships bysetting geographic boundaries, refusing torespond to inquiries regarding overheadand setting factory-madated minimum pricing. That's not slander, that's an opinion.

Welcome to America, Jeff. People have opinions here. And I'm sorry, but I thinkthere are several manufacturers (not limited to Bowtech) whosepricing schemesare quiteshady.

There's nothing "underhanded" at all about this discussion. I feel like I've been as honest and straighforward as possible with everyone involved.
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:57 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: Bowtech questions

ORIGINAL: GMMAT

Capitalism isn't ripping people off, Jeff. It's free market pricing. Once you start hiding information, tampering with pricing, and playing games with geographic dealerships - you're going away from true "Capitalism" and leaning toward "Collusion."
I don't givea crap who you're talking about, Fran....you're just doing so in a VERY underhanded manner.

Who are YOU to say who's ripping someone off.....or that people are, indeed, getting ripped off? Who's complaining? The only one I see is you.....and you're not even a customer.

Once you start hiding information, tampering with pricing, and playing games with geographic dealerships - you're going away from true "Capitalism" and leaning toward "Collusion."
Objection. Also...slanderous (the implication). They told you why they couldn[t divulge information. You just choose to spin it.

Capitalism is a two-way street, Jeff.
You mean it's OK....as long as you tell me how much profit you're making off of me????

That's downright ridiculous. I mean ridiculous.

If you can't handle the fact that you're not going to get the information you seek......and realize that you don't DESERVE it for any reason other than those self-implied.......

WALK AWAY. It is that simple.
Jeff, you're getting way too wrapped up in the Bowtech part of this discussion. Mobow, and even Fran have used other companies as part of this argument to make the point, and I understand what they are saying.

You were heavily involved in golf in a previous life, so you should be able to relate to this completely. What Fran is referring to is the same thing that Callaway and Titlist do. They set a floor for how low their product can be sold, sell to distributors at a price waaaayyy above cost and could care less if the distibutor makes a dime or not. This is wrong.

Making a profit is a good thing, it is what our country's economy is based on. However, what we are talking about is not about making a profit and keeping economy flowing. It is about raking everyone, including distributors over the coals to make as much money as you can as a company regardless of how the rest of those in the equation are affected. Based on their names, Callaway and Titlist would still make a crapload of money without killing the distributors and selling tothemway over cost.

Same thing with the bow companies we are talking about. Based on their reputations, and loyal followings of consumers, as long as they continue to produce a quality product would continue to see profits without overpricing to distributors and setting a floor on what they can sell for. They don't do that, because they know they can get away with it.

Fran's argument is sound and it is a good discussion whether you like it or not. Granted he positioned the argument in a way to intentionally stir the pot and poke the Bowtech hornet's nest, but it's still a solid argument.
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Old 03-12-2008, 02:01 PM
  #56  
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I didn't say that anyone colluded on anything. I just said that it approaches collusion when you start protecting dealerships bysetting geographic boundaries and setting factory-madated minimum pricing. That's not slander, that's an opinion.
Fair enough. But the practices you speak of aren't exclusive to the major bow companies. Golf club mfr's do it. Perfume mfr's do it. Boat dealers do it. Probably some automobile dealers do it.

If your opinion is there shoud be full disclosure on EVERYTHING purchased in America.....goods AND services.......then good luck with that. I'm not sure I wanna know how much that beer at my favorite pub costs them.....but I'm betting it's ahelluva lot more than most think.
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Old 03-12-2008, 02:04 PM
  #57  
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Yeah, my granpappy told me one time, "youall see at tear truck wit dem ere fancy tars on it? I'd a done got me one em ere trucks, but at dere dad-gum dealer is a swindlerI tell ya, a swindler. Why they'all won't eben tell ya how much a money dey make on 'em."

Quick, the days of an honest sale with nothing to hide are gone. It is called "Competition". It is what drives "most" Americans today. They have to make more than the Jones', not keep up with them. Can anyone here honestly say that our world has not become so focused on greed of wealth? If you believe you are living in a fair world my friend, might I suggest a few days in the treestand discussing this with the only "ONE" who is, was, and ever will be, "totally just". No, you will never get fair answers to the questions you have asked Quick. Someones pockets will become understuffed if they did that.

LT
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Old 03-12-2008, 02:09 PM
  #58  
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How is the distributor getting raked over the coals? I'm betting if he didn't like the practice the company employed....he could opt not to sell the goods provided. Why isn't he doing that? Because he can make MORE of a profit selling them.......at what the market will bear......than he could if he didn't sell them at all. His choice, though......I'm betting. Is he making as much as he'd LIKE to on each sell? Maybe not....but he has choices.

Fran's argument is sound and it is a good discussion whether you like it or not. Granted he positioned the argument in a way to intentionally stir the pot and poke the Bowtech hornet's nest, but it's still a solid argument.
Solid argument for what? What does he want? Full disclosure??......from a privately held company? Are you KIDDING? What right does anyone have to know this?What if you had to give the price of everything you ever bought to the potential consumer when you sold it?

I guess when you guys play poker and fold......you also think it's your right to see what your opponent was holding.

Jeff, you're getting way too wrapped up in the Bowtech part of this discussion. Mobow, and even Fran have used other companies as part of this argument to make the point, and I understand what they are saying.
No offense, BRY....but look at the name of the thread.

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Old 03-12-2008, 02:10 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: Bowtech questions

I think he knew the answer before he asked, a carefully thought out defense if you will.
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Old 03-12-2008, 02:26 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Bowtech questions

The way I see it is... all of the products being talked about are "luxury" type items. Noone"needs" any of these products. "Brand New" means expensive when talking about "luxury" items. The popularity of an item is one factor that dictates how much of a premium is attached to it (bragging rights aren't cheap). Consumers have to make the decision whethertheythink a product is worth the money being asked for it. I understand that more information is being asked for to make this decision but, the information asked for is not to be had/given. If you need this info. to make this decision then I think you need to find a public company that is willing to give it to you.

Why are people willing to spend their money on "luxury" items when there is no need involved? Because they want the item being offered at the price they bought it for.


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