Who notices???
 

How many of you notice a huge difference in shootingyour field points compared tofixed blade BH?? Mine are completely different, someone told me that they fly the same if your bow is tuned, I don't think they are right..

RE: Who notices???
 

I think they are right.

RE: Who notices???
 

I think they are right.

I'm gonna tell ya about a great bow. That Allegiance that Buckmaster now has......was set up ONE time.

I could shoot ANYTHING.......I mena any tipped arrow....and it was perfect. I even switched between arrow diameters, weights, etc......FP's, BH's ....even different weight BH's.

THAT BOW was tuned perfectly. It was awesome.

RE: Who notices???
 

I know that when I shoot a field point it flies to the left and low, about 4-5" . BH is on. I wish I could shoot field points, it would be much easier on my targets during the "off season".

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VA, What kind of broadhead are you shooting?

RE: Who notices???
 

I tune for FP's and THEN shoot BH's....but I suppose you could do it either way. SInce switching to the Rage 2 blade....I've never had to worry. I didn't before with the Ally.....but I DID experience the issues you describe with my old bow. I had to tune to one or the other (FP's or BH's).

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There isn't much difference in how mine shoot

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What kind of BH's and what range?
.....and.....
Are you sure your bow is tuned "perfectly" (or very close to it)?

RE: Who notices???
 

Some folks are lucky enough and some aren't! Your bow can be tuned perfectly and the 2 will fly different. All this bow tuning stuff is getting carried away on here. Sometimes it depends on what type of BH your using. Mine fly real close to the same out of my recurve but I still practice with my BH's during the hunting season so I know there flying good and going where I'm aiming.

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It has more to do with your arrow than the bow. In order to get your field tipped arrows to hit the same as your fixed blade arrows you need to be pretty close on spine. If not you will play heck trying to get them close and will most likely actually throw your tune off trying to do it.

If you set your bow up and tune it with field points to the best of your ability, then shoot fixed blades and they are several inches off and fly funky you can try broad tuning. However when you do this if you have to move your rest or nocking point farther than what you know you should have to then you probably have a spine issue. Try messing with the draw weight of your bow to see if it changes.

If you simply can't group fixed blade arrows it may be an arrow issue. Like your arrows are warped or the nocks are off/bad or the inserts are not square and your heads do not spin true.

Fetching contact can cause it as well.

Me personally I don't try to get my fixed blades to hit exactly where my field points do. If they are within a few inches I am happy. As long as they still group well. I shoot my bow at targets WAY more than I actually hunt with it. And when I do hunt with it I take shots that are close.

I tune with bareshafts and like to get them to impact with my fletched arrows at least out to 20 yards, but I prefer 30 yards. If I can accomplish this I am fairly confident my bow is tuned pretty well for that arrow and my spine is pretty close as well. Now if I screw on a fixed blade head and I shoot an inch or two off the mark I'm not going to throw a fit or go re adjusting my bow. Especially if the broad head arrows still group well. I can either change my sights my sights when I hunt or just compensate for it. I am more concerned with how the arrow flies, not that two differently configured arrows impact in different spots.

Lots of fletching and FOC seems to help with this as well.

The best broad head tipped arrows I have shot were the Nitro Stingers that are tapered and have decent FOC from the get go. These were very easy to broad head tune, even though they were pretty stiff spine wise for my bow.

This is my view anyway, many do not agree with it. To each his own I guess.

Paul

RE: Who notices???
 

I to have seen diferences in different point types of the same grain on the same set up. Mine shoots real close with target points and my broadheads, but i have owned broadheads that gave me fits. for the most mines the same, i shoot what works for me.

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RE: Who notices???
 

I shoot a 90 gr 4 blade Muzzy. I seriously doubt my bow is tuned perfectly. When I asked my pro shop about paper tuning, he said we already laser tuned your bow, you don't need to paper tune it??!! But I think that even if your bow is tuned to perfection, they are still 2 different types objects flying through the air right? I mean the BH has to cr4eate more resistance in flight than the FP, right?? so why should they fly the same?? I have no clue one way or the other...

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Excellent read Pual, that was very cool!!

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VA...just elling how mine did. I shot 3 blade muzzy's; rage 2 blades and FP's and never moved anything. Same POI.

I think Rob gets this out of ALL his setups. He keeps 2-3 differering BH's in his quiver sometimes. If they didn't impact in the same place.....I don't think he'd do that.

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That's interesting Jeff, I wonder why that is??

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I can only assume.....he works hard at fine tuning his bows.

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i use thunderheads and they shoot the same as my broadheads

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Paper tune it yourself VA. It's not that hard, just takes a little time. Make a frame and tape some paper to it. Are you shooting the Muzzy MX-4 or the old style?

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true and he is smart!!

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I shoot the old 4 blades Choppers.

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I don't think so either. Just think about it, a field point is less likely to veer off in flight because there are obviously no blades to catch wind and steer it. A fixed broadhead has 2-4 steering "fins" on it. Then, all broadheads are different sizes and tolerances that will make them different in flight compared to eachother and especially to a field point.

The following is a link to a broadhead poi test conducted out of a shooting machine. The bow was tuned and all variables were eliminated or at least minimized. Test results were that different broadheads have different poi's, sometimes as much as 3 or more inchesofffrom a field point's poi. How do you explain this besides that broadheads do not hit exactly where field points do.

http://www.prorelease.com/xring.aspx?action=1

RE: Who notices???
 

For me, my bow this year was not tuned that great, so I basically shot my practice broadheads all the time so I wouldnt have to readjust...I have had bows that have shot field points and broadheads almost identical without any tweaking at all on the sight...was nice.

RE: Who notices???
 

ABSOLUTELY!
I'm no expert, but I've absorbed a lot since I started shooting back in March last year... both from experience and the gurus on here.

When I got my Drenalin in March, my shop owner set me up with GT 5575s (.400" deflection) for a 70#, 29" draw with 100 grain points. It shot great, and I got pretty decent with the fieldpoints. When I finally tried broadheads (G5 Montecs)around July, it was like a bad dream. Always low left, sometimes more than othersand sometimes missing the block target altogether at 30 yards. I bought an arrow spinner and aligned the broadheads perfectly with no significant improvement. Finally, with the help of TFOX and the Goldtip selection chart, I found out that the 5575's were underspined. I bought a dozen 7595s in(.300" deflection) and that fixed everything. FPs and Montecs fly the same PROVIDED my form is good and consistent.

Not saying that's your problem, but it sounds like it. If you're shooting vanes and you had a contact issue, I think you'd already know it, especiallyshooting broadheads.

RE: Who notices???
 

My Jennings Buckmaster 2000 shooting 2117s/100gr wasps was underspined, and I never was able to get consistant groups with BHs and field points (I shot with this setup for a few years when I was just starting all the way up to two years ago). Thankfully I found this site, and was told about my spine issue, and was able to correct it (ordered a new set of gamegetters set to the correct spine, and voila!, my BH and field points were hitting VERY close (not perfect, but close).

Fast forward to this past winter. I ordered my CR334, knew I wanted to shoot Slicktricks (100gr), and with my DL and draw weight, I was a little in between the 3-39 and 3-49 range (I went with 3-49s), and my BH's hit very close as well. Neither bow was professionally tuned (my CR334 still isn't and I need Rob to walk me through some of that once I get new strings). So from what little experience I have with the issue, I believe it to be much more related to spine that broadheads (although I do agree different broadhead designs will exhibit various characteristics in flight).

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when i shot fixed blades they shot completely different. the rages really do fly just like my field points though

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BH will test the setup and tuning of both the arrow AND bow. As Paul said, if you are underspined, you don't stand a chance. If you are spined right to a touch on the stiff side, there is a good chance.

BH will change the FOC a little bit, but the thing that gets most BH off line are either the insert/bh are not alighned right, or the arrow is leaving the bow at an angle. With FP the fletching can make up for either, that's its job. With a fixed blade BH on the front, now you have the wings of the BH trying to keep the front of the arrow going in the direction its going. When its not straight you get air flow actually pushing on the blade to push the arrow further off line.

You say 4 inches or so at 20 yards? That's a lot and indicates a tuning issue of some sort, bow, arrow or both. You can "tweak" the rest SLIGHTLY towards the FP grouping, slightly as in 1/32 inch at a time. This fixes any leaving the bow straight issues.

Fletching also makes a HUGE difference with BH. Try a more offset fletch, or a different kind. I've found feathers to be alot better than vanes.

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Good advice Bob, Im going to the archery shop sat. we have a lot to do and discuss.

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VA, if you want to get away with shooting broadheads from an untuned bow you will need to use a low profile head like a Slick Trick or the newer Muzzy MX series. This is why mechanicals are so popular. Ifthe bow is not tuned properly the arrow comes out ofthe bow crooked and that is when the blades catch most of the air and it planes. If you tune the bow and get it shooting straight right from the beginning you will reduce the variation you are seeing between the field points and the broad head.

RE: Who notices???
 

No difference here:D

Dan

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Forgot to mention, to test the BH alignment either use an arrow spinner, or just stand the arrow up on its point and give it a good spin, works great on a piece or wood. Watch for either the end of the nock or the BH end to "wobble" at all. They should spin perfectly. If not, then either the arrow is bent or the BH/insert is not aligned perfectly with the shaft.

RE: Who notices???
 

How do prevent the insert from being off centered?

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Square off the end of the shaft before glueing it it. Then square off the end of the insert after the glue dries.

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OK here is my whole process that I do. I started doing this after takeing my arrows to get cut at shops and they were always cut uneven ie slatted cuts. and bad. I got my own arrow saw I cut to my desired length. Then I take a arrow squaring device (ASD)to both ends. trust me I can see the difference useing it. Then I install the nocks and inserts I use goat tuff for this process. Then I mark the insert with a black magic marker just the very end and then use the ASD on the insert until its square which is when all the magic mark has been removed. Then I install my broadheads on 5 arrows and then I also use a slight right helical on my arrows for flight stability. I also align the blades of the broad head with the vanes themselves. My broadheads shoot the same as field points and I also spend alot of time to get my bow perfectly tuned. Some of this might be myth but all together I believe this make for perfect arrows. Since I started doing this alot of people have started getting me to build there arrows becuase they shoot so much better and are more accurate. Also tuning is a big key of broadheads because you just added wings in front so where ever it points is where it will hit.

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I shoot light for speed. i am shooting 85 grain field tips and 85 grain thunderheads and they fly identical. try finding the same grain field tips as you are shooting broadheads