RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

I would be mad if a farm rasied deer took the top spot![:@]

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

The main reason there are more big deer shot now is................................................ .................there are more deer now. Duh.

Having more deer also allows the current luxury of passing on small bucks because you can shoot a doe. For many years in Iowa there were no antlerless tags and only very few bucks only tags. If you passed on that small buck you were unlikely to get another opportunity to HUNT for years to come. Many hunters did not even SEE a deer while hunting in the 1950's. My father grew up on a farm in Southern Iowa and NEVER saw a deer on the old family place. I think that it would be unusual to not see deer every week there now.

I agree that most book deer in Iowa never go on the books. No one wants to screw up their honey hole with publicity.

Bob

Keep the high fenced deer off of the books. Do not buy products from people who use high fence hunting to promote those products. CWD would not even exist in many places were it not for farm raised deer. There could be other pathogens waiting out there, lets us not help them spread as has been done with CWD.

Sport is what you do when you are not keeping score.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

I have laid my hands on some contenders, and I film a handfull over 200" every year in my small area. I have alsokilled a buck over 200"So I wonder how the books could be accurate on locations.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Awesom critters Don, Score of these bucks?

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Thx GR8atta2d, 158, 171, 205, 168, 169, these are a few of my lucky days.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

More then you think go in the books from Iowa. I'm good friends with one of the P@Y measurer's and he measure's a ton of racks In Iowa that go in P@Y and B@C books. Look in the books, you will see allot of deer from Iowa.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Holy crap!! Them are some excellent bucks!

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Great deer... Maybe not offically recorded
But they are not exactly thrown in thebarn lofteither ;)

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Bow or gun? Awesome bucks either way!

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Good thread Atlas. As long as someone doesn't try to sneak in a non-fair chase buck(penned, farm raised, etc.) I have no problem. I also believe anyone who takes a minimum P&Y qualifying buck is still taking a quality animal. As some already have said, its still tough to take a mature buck in the wild.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

don128. I want to see those pics!!! I don't see them posted!!!!!!!

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

FAIR CHASE

sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild game animal in

a manner that does not give the hunter an improper or unfair advantage over such

game animals.

Use of any of the following methods in the taking of game shall be deemed

CHASE

1. Spotting or herding same from the air, followed by landing in its vicinity for the

purpose of pursuit and shooting;

2. Herding, pursuing, or shooting game from any motorboat or motor vehicle;

3. Use of electronic devices for attracting, locating, or observing game, or for

guiding the hunter to such game;

4. Hunting game confined by artificial barriers, including escape-proof fenced

enclosures, or hunting game transplanted solely for the purpose of commercial

shooting;

5. Taking of game in a manner not in full compliance with the game laws or

regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal

council on reservations or tribal lands;

6. Or as may otherwise be deemed unfair or unsportsmanlike by the Executive

Committee of the Boone & Crockett Club.

So a pen raised deer released on free range certainly wouldn't qualify. High fences are clearly out. I wonder how the club looks upon baiting, even where legal. I wonder how the club applys rules no. 3 and 6. I wonder how the club feels about the use of trail cameras & similar devices. I believe that in Texas the restrictions on baitingare very few or none. What about a free range situation where the herd is three or four times what the land would support if not for supplemental feeding?

I believe almost every hunter bends the rules just slightly somewhere along the line. Do you walk in the field before or after shooting light with your bow uncased? Is this legal? Do you break branches or otherwise damage natural vegetation on public land for shooting lanes?

I don't really care about the record books, I'll probably never go there anyway. But I do care about fair chase, and I hate what is happening to this sport. As far as I'm concerned every big buck is tainted unless I have first hand knowledge of the hunter or the circumstances. As Tred says: "there's lotta stuff that's legal that ain't fair chase".

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Truth!

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Boone and Crockett did a lot to "fix" the caribou hunting in Quebec. Apparently it was getting pretty bad up there with guys running caribou down in boats and whacking them in the water. B&C threatened to take the caribou off their list, which would have decreased the # of hunters wanting to take them. In response, Quebec tightened laws and started really enforcing fair chase. Pretty good success story for the power of the record books IMO.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

When I got my buck measured In January the P@Y measurer told me people are now glueing 2 different skull plates together trying to make it look like one skull plate. There's a few places in the USA that the measurers actually have an x-ray machine thing to check the skull plates to make sure people aren't making these racks, its a big problem in some areas believe it or not!

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Ok, did don kill those or Gr8t??

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

I think Don

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

I did take them, and have many more that i am proud of. My main thing is, the record books could be alittle off on the best area's, because alot of us hunters just never enter, cause it's common place in some area's to be "common" and no big deal. But they are hard to take, as in all area's. Old bucks are Hard no matter how common.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

"No one" was an exageration, I should have said "Most". I do know people with book racks on the wall who have not recorded them. I do not know anyone who HAS recorded a book deer. I could even lose permission to hunt if I reported a book deer. My guess is that 30 to 40% are recorded. I think the trend is downward too but as I said, these are guesses based on my limited personal knowlege.

A record deer will come out, there is too much money involved.

Keep in mind that I am talking the State of Iowa book here, 150 and up typical and 170 and up non. A couple were well above these minimums and two of the biggest have not been measured at all. (probably into P&Y)

Bob

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

ya it sure isnt what it used to be

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

There are a ton of P&Y and B&C deer shot every year that are not ever put in the books. I lived in Iowa for 57 year and have always been around archery. I myself have a few of 130 to 140 inch bucks that are not in the books. I can always remember being at a friend pro shop and a guy and his son came into the shop with a buck that would score in the 180 to 190's. I ask him if he was have it measured and he said no. I than ask him if he was going to have it mounted being it was his sons deer and he also said no. I told him to call another friend who is a taxidermist and that he would pay him for the cape off that deer. He thought that was great and did it. I talked to my taxidermist he told me he has bowhunters and gun hunter every year come in from IA & ILL and he buys the cape of them than cuts the rack off for them and that he mounts a lot of 190 inch B&Y and B&C bucks every year that never see the books. Some hunter just don't care about the recored books.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

i have not read everyone piece so if this was repeated...sorry

i feel they really need to seperate out record deer via private and public land!!! personal opinion....but i would say 95% of all deer in the record books were taken on private land....where does that lead me?? having to be in the top 5% of my game in my state??? or just at the right place at the right time???

just my opinion.......but when i see monsters taken on private land..not to say they are not good deer..but an average joe like me who can't afford land, or a guided hunt....just don't seem right

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Atlas...They are already tainted...But not for the reasons you mentioned...

Carbon-Weight Forward Arrows
Mechanical Releases
Peep Sights
80% Let Off
Drop Away Rests
Mechanical Broadheads
Stabilizers
Fiber Optic Micro-Adjustable Sights
Lighted Nocks
And all the fancy cams, strings, vibration dampners, etc, etc....

Plus all the technology that goes into producing a bow that sells for hundreds of dollars....

Nope, it's sure not like it used to be....:D

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

You left out ScentLok:Dand the WB;)

This is an eye opener

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Yes it is, never heard that one before!

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Spooky!

To even things out a bit, I started leaving my compass at home!:eek:

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

ok...poke fun at the poor boy:D

but really....how many of you that have taken monster deer (would make book for your state) on public land?

i mean to make if fare for people who want to be in the book (i for one do not personally care, that is not why i hunt or why i am a hunter)......i really think there should be a breakdown for public vs. private land killed deer...regardless of a special draw to hunt a special area were monsters live (we have a draw...most records come from this zone and no matter how many points you have u aint gonna get it....just say odds are not in your favor)...if it is public then anyone can hunt it..........99.9% of you guys hunt whitetails or mulies so my perspective is a bite ... well out there...but i don't think the #1 world record deer...here..lets say the new mulie typical record...still pending...was a guy who hunted a priavte ranch in mexico...paid some thousands of dollars (no joke) for a chance to kill this deer and he did......that is fine if you want to put him in the book...b&c, p&y i don't care....but don't compare a guy who paid $25,000 to kill a deer while sleeping in a cabin eating gourmet meals ... while guys like me sleep on the ground, hike back frikin forever in the woods and kill a deer that ranks 7 in his state. but would be #1 for public land deer.....can you honestly sit there and tell me that it this is right???? take out considering how you could prove it one way or another, and just think about the basic principle.....well that is enough ranting from me.....to each his own i guess

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Our situations must be entirely different. At one time I shot the #4 archery buck in my state. I shot it on private land that permission was granted through knocking on doors, asis the case with all of the land I hunt. It is much harder to get permission this way now days, but still possible.

As far as I know, speaking of whitetails, I think that all of the top B&C and P&Y record book deer came from private land where permission was granted. I don't think that any of them came from a high priced, outfitter guided hunt. My point is that I don't think that anyone paid big money for the very top whitetails.

Even if they did, it wouldn't bother me because I'm happy with taking good bucks from the areas I hunt.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

I think breeding deer genetically which to my knowledge cannot be released into the wild, only enclosed environments is just completely going too far. Food plots, passing immature deer, I don't really see as tainting the records, but certainly deer farms, deer breeding now is like that of cow breeding, I see it as very unnatural and wrong. But most record books to my knowledge won't include an animal taken at oneof these farms/raches, high fenced etc....are ineligible. So sure more bucks than ever are growing larger. Also B&C whiteail min I believe is somewhere near 180" for a typical, not a common deer even by today's standards! Even places that are managing for monsters etc.....a 150" comes along and he's going down, also the world record has stood for quite a number of years......and he was taken from a non food plot environment, the typical anyway.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

B@C Typical Whitetail Minimum is 170" net. You were close!!

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Considering it is now possible............does anyone think guys will be buying or using their own captive deer's semen and impregnating (free range) does on their property in hopes of producing some of these 2 year old bucks that are pushing 200"??


How much could an outfitter charge if he had enough land and money to change the genetics of the herd by introducing some stock genetics into the wild and producing rediculous bucks that are still being born in the wild and hunted fair chase.

I wouldn't doubt if that has already been done.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

I certainly hope not. I prefer to hunt natural deer.

It's not wise to fool mother nature! [:-]

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

I don't care about top spots or record books. I've never measured a deer and don't care to. Each deer is himself. I look and say nice deer or great deerbut don't care to worry about cheaters and frauds. Life is too short. There will always be someone trying to beat any "System" that's in place so they can say Look at Me. Usually somewhere along the way they step on their wick or someone rats them out. TV and the QDM boys have brought this on us so you'll have to live with it. There will always be someone looking for the short cut to fame. And of course breeder bucks have been turned out to enhance a deer herd. I have no doubt of that.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Around here it wouldn't matter much, most of our deer don't reach two years old.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Mr Mill

QDMA has zero to do with your above post. Please post accurate information. Not doubting that it is being done, but lumping entire group and lableing them is , well stupid.

Atlas it's hard for me to believe the average hunter has done what you claim. There are so many varibles in the wild, would it even work?

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

WE should all support laws that make purposely releasing genetically Superior or domestically bred deer into wild a felony with huge fines mandatory.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Perhaps YOU don't give enough credit to the average hunter. We're a pretty amazing group. We've seen and done a lot of things. You don't have to be cute or a TV personnality to succeed and know a few things. In fact, probably many of us know more than the so called EXPERTS on TV. Yup, don't sell the average hunter short.

As far as QDM, I'm saying the CRAZE for bigger horns is what propelled QDM. That's what it's all about. NOT EVER do you here these guys talk about big mature healthy does. They only talk about them in terms of buck to doe ratio and thinning them out so they can get BIG MATURE BUCKS with BIG RACKS. THe biggest and most mature buck on the place might very well be an 8 point. We've seen it time and time again on these shows where a big 8 is the dominant critter on the field. When they shoot him they claim to be culling an inferior buck. What's inferior about him. He's the biggest and the bully on the block and the dominant critter. EXCEPT his horns are too small. It's all about horns to these guys, not the dominant creature. It's all about score. Survival of the fittest has nothing to do with it behind these fences.

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

Sorry David,
http://www.qdma.com/qdm/

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

He said "taint".:D

RE: Are the record books "tainted" now??
 

I have personnally seen a farm raised buck released into the wild to "enhance" the herd genetics. I argued with the person doing this. My arguments fell on deaf ears. I agree with Davilmil on this one. I don't care what the QDM guys are saying, thier actions speak much louder. Everything I have personally seen regarding "QDM" is all about bigger racks.