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It'll be a cold day in he....
The recent topic about why some of us stay with aluminum arrows got me to thinking, so I did some research. Found some surprising information!
I visited Eastons website. They have a page of warnings for carbon arrows yet none for aluminum. Why is this? could it be aluminum arrow are safer? What are your thoughts on this? FOOLPROOF? Never underestimate the power of a fool! What if the "Hokey Pokey" really is what it's all about? |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
I think an archer is more apt to notice if there is damage to an aluminum arrow when compared to a carbon one. If an aluminum is bent it is unsafe to shoot but not to the extent that it will explode and send carbon shards in a variety of directions. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
So, to some extent, yes, I think you might be able to say that. |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
Well, before you even get this topic started you will need to come up with some stats on Al vs C accidents...don't you think?
I haven't heard of any..either way. ~Will Hunt For Food~ |
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Hey Frank, didn't you have a carbon arrow explode on you last year? Seems like I remember you saying something about it and maybe even posted a picture.
 My Web Page www.geocities.com/hfpmad Moderator Cup Webpage www.geocities.com/moderatorcup |
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Easton, don't tehy sell primarily aluminum arrows, humm, would you put a warning out for your big seller?
Der Jagd Meister aka [email protected] |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
LET US ADD A TWIST WHAT ABOUT A.C.C.'S
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RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Well, before you even get this topic started you will need to come up with some stats on Al vs C accidents...don't you think? I haven't heard of any..either way. ~Will Hunt For Food~ <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> He's not fabricating this info! Carbon arrows have exploded when shot causing serious injury to archers. We had a guy at our club get rushed to the hospital to remove a 6" piece of carbon from his hand. There was someone on this site that posted a similar accident with a pic last year. If I can find some pics and info I'll post it , but someone will probably beat me to it. |
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You guys have got to be ******* kidding me. More poeple get killed in car accidents every year than all other methods combine. Do you drive a car? People get killed by lighting. Do you go outside? I am sure there is a possibility that you could consume a piece of carbon that could harm you but I am also fairly sure that the odds of doing so are less than the odds of hitting the lottery! I have shot Gold Tips into concrete walls (on NUMEROUS occaisions) and the worst that I have ever seen is one snap (and that is <font size=4>EXTREMELY</font id=size4>rare). Nine times out of ten the insert is merely driven back into the shaft with no splintering. If you guys don't have anymore to worry about than that then you need to pat yourselves on the back because you are some lucky people!
Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal." |
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I converted to Carbons 3 yrs ago (Carbon Express CX-300's); bought a dozen. Still have 7 of those original 12 left. Robin hooded 2 of the 5, lost 2, and had to snap one off when I buried it into the frame of a target. BTW, the one that I had to snap off, I had to jump on the thing to get it to snap (this means sideways pressure on the shaft here folks, not straight on).
I have no doubts in my mind that I could smash right through the thickest bone, and the shaft would come out the other side untouched. I think what Easton and other manufacturers of Carbon shafts are doing is placing a nice little cover over their a$$ in case of any potiential law suits.... Ever try to break an aluminum shaft over your knee? Try the same thing with a carbon shaft - lots more effort to break the carbon... Jim. |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
The fact that you've shot a perfectly good carbon arrow into a cement wall on more than ten occasions makes me for fear your safety in every example you gave us. Please refrain from driving from here on out...especially when there is a storm.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein Edited by - oregonhunter on 02/07/2003 09:14:21 |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
The carbon arrows that explode are going to be target arrows 99% of the time due to the continuous abuse from targets and other arrows smacking them.The reason is they are thin walled and light weight causing them to be more apt to damage.They must be checked before each shot for damage.
It is highly unlikely that the carbon fiber is going to hurt you.The concern is with the splinters that can get stuck in the meat and actually cut you when eating it,not the material itself. I work with carbon and breath the dust much more than I would like.The amount of carbon fiber you would have to consume to hurt you is much more than a whole arrow would contain. Also,Easton has a HUGE line of carbon arrows and many carbon HUNTING arrows.They probably don't care if you use aluminum or carbon.They would be more concerned with you using their product. They seem to be the only ones that care enough to add the warning,or the only ones that understand the chance of a law suit,however small. |
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To add on to that, I too had one explode on me last year. I agree with you wholeheartedly PA, I don't think 99% of us could tell if there was damage to our carbons or not. We have all been told from day one that they are either straight as an 'arrow' or ruined.
Just my two cents. |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
I'm an old timer and I've used Easton Aluminum Arrows forever. I think I bought my firstr Eastons in 1964 and have never been disappointed.
I have not gone to Carbon or even ACC. After studying an reading volumes of material, carbon arrows have one thing that keeps me from changing. Because of the process method that these arrows goes through they are unable to maintain a uniform wall thickness with the same reliability that drawn aluminum yields. Until that uniformity is achieved, I'll stay with amuminum. I guess you ". . . cant teach an old dog new triks!" Bowhunter |
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I shoot goldtips, and I have never had one splinter or brake. I agree with jcrayford, I think that Easton and other manufacturers of carbon arrows are just coverering their a$$es just in case something happens, even though its very rare.
TFOX, do you work at that aluminum smelter over in KY. The reason I ask is because I work at an aluminum smelter here in MO. and I breath alot of carbon dust also. Just wondering. hc4runner MO. bowhunter |
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WOW! There is quite a bit of difference between the warnings on Eastons website and what some people here are saying.
For example; Easton says that if a carbon arrow were to hit bone or if a protruding part of the arrow were to hit a tree as the deer ran off, then there would be a very good chance the arrow could splinter and you need to cut that meat out and not eat it. They also said to inspect your carbon arrows after every shot. Even a small amount of carbon fiber, if ingested is dangerous, it cuts. Tfox there is a difference between fiber and dust. FOOLPROOF? Never underestimate the power of a fool! What if the "Hokey Pokey" really is what it's all about? |
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I eat carbon every day, lots of it, been doin it for 44 years...It hasn't hurt me yet....Well, there was that one time with the burritos.....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Ok and that's only two incidents one of which is hearsay.... |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The fact that you've shot a perfectly good carbon arrow into a cement wall on more than ten occasions makes me <font color=blue>for</font id=blue> your safety in every example you gave us. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Did you have a grammatical lapse of reason or are you advocating my safety? Either way I appreciate the thought<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Just for some background, I use to shoot Gold Tips into the cement wall at a Pro Shop I use to work at. We would shoot them into the wall then cut them off and spin test and then put another insert in them and shoot them again, to proove to customers how durable they were. There is nothing about flesh or bone that will make a Gold Tip splinter. Only in rare cases will they splinter at all and that is normally when they take a direct hit from another arrow. In those cases I have seen a splinter come off of the arrow there is no continued degredation of the splinter. I hit one arrow with another earlier this year and nocked a splinter out a couple of inches above the insert (the business end). I have shot that same arrow all year during practice and it has not splintered anymore than the original splinter. Your odds of splintering a Gold Tip on an animal are roughly equivalant to the odds of building a snow man in the bowls of hell! Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal." |
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I do know that ACC's will snap when hitting a hard object. I had a drop-away rest problem that resulted in my hitting a doe in the hoof. The arrow snapped in two about 6 inches from the nock. Just a comment to throw in the mix.
The most important bloodtrail leads right to the foot of the cross |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
Silent, I think Oregon forgot a word. Please insert "fear" between the words "me" and "for".
FOOLPROOF? Never underestimate the power of a fool! What if the "Hokey Pokey" really is what it's all about? |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
hc4runner,no,I am a toolmaker in Henderson and we grind carbon for electrodes to burn steel.
Thundermug,you are correct there is a difference between fiber and dust.I would think that a pure dust would be more dangerous than a mixture but I could be mistaken.The rest of your comments actually backed up what I was saying about splintering and cutting you. This whole argument about the dangers is like saying not to eat a deer shot with a lead bullet because you might get lead poison. Come on guys get a grip.Use what you want and have confidence in it. The best long range shooters in the world use a combination of carbon and aluminum because there are positives to both. |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Your odds of splintering a Gold Tip on an animal are roughly equivalant to the odds of building a snow man in the bowls of hell! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> There must be an occassional snow storm in hell! I''m sure I'm not the only one who's had a goldtip shatter (splinter) by hitting the opposite leg of a deer (no passthru) and having the deer shatter it when it takes off running.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I dont think anyone is seriously avoiding carbons for safety reasons. Are they? |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
[/quote]
There must be an occassional snow storm in hell! I''m sure I'm not the only one who's had a goldtip shatter (splinter) by hitting the opposite leg of a deer (no passthru) and having the deer shatter it when it takes off running.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I dont think anyone is seriously avoiding carbons for safety reasons. Are they? [/quote] I've had one goldtip break when I spined a doe and she fell on it. It cracked(splintered) rather than broke. That was on a 5575. That was the only carbon I've broken on an animal. Though it hasn't happened on an animal. I have noticed that on the 7595's when they do break they don't splinter, they seem to break clean. While I certainly wouldn't avoid carbons for safety reasons, I do think that the heavier spine, thickness of the 7595's are less likely to splinter. Although that wasn't why I selected that shaft I do feel more comfortable with that choice in that regard. |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I dont think anyone is seriously avoiding carbons for safety reasons. Are they? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Actually I haven't switched yet cause my setup is fine with me. I was just surprised at the data my research uncovered! However you have me curious once again. Is anyone avoiding carbons out of fear? FOOLPROOF? Never underestimate the power of a fool! What if the "Hokey Pokey" really is what it's all about? |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
IBM,
Yes, I had a carbon arrow explode on me last year..as I was releasing the bowstring. The actual cause though is uncertain....ie, whether it was the cable that snapped thus breaking the arrow or whether the carbon arrow actually failed. The folks at Hoyt did an analysis of string/cable as well as the cable guard. Their take was that the carbon arrow broke, thus causing the cable damage...but I am not so sure. Regardless, that is the only time I have had that happen in all the years I have shot carbons and I was in no way injured...other than my pride...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>. On the other hand, I have seen plenty of ICS carbons from all of the big companies that were bent and not broken. One or more of the internal layers of carbon broke. This was not visible by bending the arrow to check for splintering but it was visible by looking down the full length of the arrow from the nock end. I have been experimenting with Beman ICS hunters for the last month or two and haven't run into that problem with them yet. However, I am sure that I will over time as I believe the problem to be because of degradation of the carbon fiber over time with use. My opinion...if you shoot alot of ICS carbons then I think it is smart to replace them every year. |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>There must be an occasional snow storm in hell! I''m sure I'm not the only one who's had a goldtip shatter (splinter) by hitting the opposite leg of a deer (no passthru) and having the deer shatter it when it takes off running. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
You probably better wait a while before you call Satan and tell him that you are heading his way with a snow shovel<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I personally just don't believe that. I don't believe that you took a <font color=blue>perfectly good </font id=blue>Gold Tip arrow and had it splinter on a deer. With out a signed confession from God I won't ever believe it. I have just seen to many Gold Tips hit trees, steel drums, and concrete. You may have shot a Gold Tip that was already cracked or that had internal layers broke and you continued to shoot it or some other extenuating circumstance. Hell, I even bought some beach front property from a guy in Arizona but I ain't buying that<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal." |
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My son and I have been hunting with carbons now for 6yrs and have never had a problem with them , for that matter our whole hunting camp has used them for years also, again never a problem. The only carbons I've seen break (never bend ) have been when we hit a rock, and not just a glancing blow I mean dead on. They're defenitley 10 times stronger than any aluminum I've ever owned. And I have nothing against aluminum. If one did blow up for some unknown reason would I quit using them, no, no more than I would quit hunting with a bow if a bow blew up on me at full draw. That has happened to me twice, both times the top limbs went south, lucky I was'nt hurt, but it did'nt stop me from hunting with a bow. Dang old PSE anyway. I'll bet it would'nt stop none of you either. elknut1.
www.elknut.com Bugling Bulls & Beyond! |
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I would like to point out that when it comes time to get the broadheads tuned for hunting and your are practicing with them--DO NOT SHOOT TWO CARBON ARROWS AT THE SAME SPOT WITH BROADHEADS--you can cut the shaft and not know it until it is too late.
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Last spring at a 3D shoot; heard a "dry fire", turned in time to see a shooter at the forth station reaching for his face. A Carbon Express shattered at the fletching end upon release. Looked like a kitten had scratched his cheek. Later while talking with him he said that he didn't check for damage prior to shooting. So the injury, while mild, was his fault not the arrows.
As for the debate on carbon vs. aluminum, both have advantages and disadvantages. With that in mind I just ask myself 'what's the difference and does it really even matter?' It's a personal preference choice, I'm perfectly happy with my setup so why change. Shoot often - Hunt always |
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Gforce, I just think we have been so brainwashed by the manufacturers into thinking that carbons are indestructible...so why bother checking! Not smart, but I have to admit I can count the number of times I have checked them prior to shooting on about two fingers...that is until I had one explode!
Chad |
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>There must be an occasional snow storm in hell! I''m sure I'm not the only one who's had a goldtip shatter (splinter) by hitting the opposite leg of a deer (no passthru) and having the deer shatter it when it takes off running. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> You probably better wait a while before you call Satan and tell him that you are heading his way with a snow shovel<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I personally just don't believe that. I don't believe that you took a <font color=blue>perfectly good </font id=blue>Gold Tip arrow and had it splinter on a deer. With out a signed confession from God I won't ever believe it. I have just seen to many Gold Tips hit trees, steel drums, and concrete. You may have shot a Gold Tip that was already cracked or that had internal layers broke and you continued to shoot it or some other extenuating circumstance. Hell, I even bought some beach front property from a guy in Arizona but I ain't buying that<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal." <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Your kidding right? You've never heard of or seen someone take a quartering away shot at a deer only to have the broadhead stick in the opposite side leg causing it to remain in the deer and break when the deer takes off running? I had it happen with my goldtips and it happened last year with my bemans. The difference is , a perfectly good carbon wont shatter under normal conditions but being lodged inside a 150lb animal between it's legs when it decides to head south isn't a normal situation. |
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
I have had a snowman I mean Carbon arrow brake off in a deer. Found the six-inch piece covered in blood 50yds into tracking. It was a clean brake with absolutely no splinters. ICS Camo Hunter.
Watched a carbon explode once on a guy during release. It looked scary but I switched to carbons that year so I guess it wasn’t that scary. Don’t know what kind and I bet he didn’t check the arrow before he shot. P.S. He had no injuries. Never thought to ask him if he had cancer though. ~MM~ |
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