RE: Does taking a P&Y equal hunter ability?
 

Sure, to a degree that's absolutely correct. BUT.....if said hunter that is in a fantastic location doesn't do all the things right, hunts wrong stands at the wrong time of year and that sort of thing.....he's not going to be as successful. What I meant by the statement you quoted is that GENERALLY speaking these are the guys that have an intimate knowledge of deer behavior.

Are his chances better of "lucking into one" just because of his locale? Sure. But that alone doesn't make him a better hunter. You know the guys I'm talking about.....Shed33, GregH, germ, those types of guys are who I'm talking about. Do they kill BIGGER bucks because of their locale? Probably, yes, but they are what I would consider good hunters. They know their prey well, and hunt accordingly. Will you ever kill one that size where you are? Possibly, but as WELL know, odds are against it. Can't kill what isn't there. Does that make you any LESS of a hunter? Absolutely not. But (I don't mean this negatively in any way, shape or form, you're just a prime example..) your location makes you much more "successful" but not necessarily better. I hope you know what I mean by that......With as many deer as it sounds like you have running around your place.....well, odds are good that most anyone is going to shoot one, right? But I would also add, that you're taking the animals you target, specifically, so in that respect I would say that does in fact make you a great hunter. In other words, size of the rack alone has absolutely ZERO to do w/ how good a hunter someone is or isn't.

RE: Does taking a P&Y equal hunter ability?
 

I think we are at a point, and probably have been for a while, where we are saying the same thing but still don't understand what each other is saying:D[8D]If that makes sense.

While everything you say is true, I think were we stray is the "weight" of location on the equation. Given everything else being equal, more X sized deer = a higher chance of running into one statistically.But to"Simply" say its a numbers thing, to me, gives a false impression of the impact of all the other factors.
And one last wrinkle....just because someone says that X sized deer don't exist where they hunt, can you always believe that to be 100% true?

RE: Does taking a P&Y equal hunter ability?
 

I wholeheratedly agree with this. Always have.

Absolutely fair.....but I never made any claims.

ABSOLUTELY! Again...calling a spade a spade. Hurts my feeling not one bit;)

Again, my friend.....common ground.;)

RE: Does taking a P&Y equal hunter ability?
 

We have hunters in my area that don't think deer get that big consistently but I know guys that kill them consistently in the area where I live. They don't lay back and say well I'm going to hunt the old north forty again becasue I know there are a ton of deer here and I can fill my tags again. They do alot of home work and find a way to get permission where these bucks live.

If your killing mature deer every year I'd say your a good hunter.

Taking a P&Y does equal hunters abilty only if done consistently under fair chase situations.

RE: Does taking a P&Y equal hunter ability?
 

rybo....EXTREMELY fair question. I've had people tell me over and over (in not so many words) that they somehow know what's in my woods more than I do. I take that as an insult. I think we need to weigh the individual hunter when assessing his knowledge of his woods. I wouldn't DREAM of telling you that there are 170" deer in your woods....you just have to find them....because I have enough respect for your knowledge of the woods you hunt every year.....to trust your assessments.

I, for one, am not afforded that same consideration im many circles (and I see that argument used when some speak to others....and they HAVE to know it's insulting). I'm OK with that. I know my woods. I've never pretended to know someone else's.

Every assertion I've put forth RE: numbers and %-ages are facts based on records. I've never mde a single statement regarding individual hunters.....and never will.

RE: Does taking a P&Y equal hunter ability?
 

Good point BHF! Another thing, big bucks are big for a reason! They get big because we don't see them! I had 4 possible P@Y bucks on my camera's this year, 2 were for sure bookers. Not once did I see any of these bucks I had on camera!

RE: Does taking a P&Y equal hunter ability?
 

Ability - No! A 125 or better in my area is rare.But it does seem to be getting better.Ya got to let them get some age.

RE: Does taking a P&Y equal hunter ability?
 

Although location is a key ingredient to tagging a P&Y class bucks, to assume guys like Bob Fratzke, Roger Rother, Myles Keller, and so on up to date, got famous largly due to their location is a hoot!
There will always be a special few that spend more time, drive farther, thatscout and hunt smarter than the others. You can see it right here on this forum.
Location my be a key, but you still need a vehicle to put it in to get where your going!

RE: Does taking a P&Y equal hunter ability?
 

Ditto Sliver! Myles Keller shot the Minnesota state record bear years back on public land in Cass County! Has shot many P@Y bear on state land and whitetails as well!

RE: Does taking a P&Y equal hunter ability?
 

You guys are hurting my head..