Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

Background - I just completed my first full season of bowhunting. Im 37 and pissed that I just now found this awesome sport. I have been mentored by a great hunter and have enough knowledge to get in the woods and find deer.

The point - Next season I plan to do some traveling and hunt some different states. Right now I can hunt KS and MO

Bottom line - I need to make up for lost time (years).
1. Would you use an outfitter or test your skills on public land?
2. What steps do I need to take for hunting different staes

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

DIY all the way! No need for an outfitter. Go to each states website and study all the laws and drawing deadlines. There is no better hunt than an all DIY! Live and die by your own choices!

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

Here is a link from this website to start your research.

http://www.huntingnet.com/staticpages/staticpage_detail.aspx?id=290

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

Do it yourself if you can. You learn so much more on your own mistakes and success! But if thats not your thing and you don't want to work all that hard you can pay someone to do the work for ya, there's plenty of good guides out there!

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

An outfitter, the right outfitter, will have access to land with a limited amount of hunters. The success ratio on public land is much lower and you almost have to be an outfitter yourself with all the gear you need. I am always for DIY public lands hunts, but I am also willing to have a unsuccessful season if I do not see what I am looking for.

For your needsfrom what you stated I would go with a well researched outfitter. SRM out!

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

I've used an outfitter on two occasions.......both times I was Pheasant hunting.

In '09....a group of us from this site is going to WY to hunt Pronhorns. We'll be using an outfitter on that trip.

To "me".....it is what it is. I have the opportunity to hunt whitetails right here at home....and they're in good numbers. I have no "personal" need to seek an outfitter to hunt whitetails. Granted....the SIZE of the deer I'm able to hunt, here, is smaller than I could hunt with MOST outfitters.

My personal feeling is......"I" would get less satisfaction from taking a larger racked deer from an outfitter.......than I would from taking one in which i did the scouting.....I set the stand.....I chose the stand for that particular hunt.....etc...etc...etc...

That's just "me", though. That's what makes hunting so great. It's very personal. If using an outfitter is your bag......rock on, brother.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

I'm not trying to hijack this thread at all but I'm just curious why you choose an outfitter to go Antelope hunting and not deer hunting?

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

Check out this website.. www.bowhuntingwhitetails.com

He's an outfitter technicly.. but not in the normal use of the word. He's all 'Do It Yourself'.. you will hang your own stands.. your own leg work..etc etc.

Craig will just meet you, give you an aerial and a topo map and send you on your way. The rest is up to you. The only thing different about this compared with public land is his is all private. And they are all awesome pieces of ground (loaded with does). You will have 1 week to yourself to hunt and hunt hard in trophy areas of some of the countries best states.

I wrote a story on a recent hunt I had with Craig on a DIY piece of ground located in Illinois. Good luck -Mike

http://www.huntingnet.com/fieldjournal/fieldjournal_detail.aspx?nID=817

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

that is all up to yourself but i would say buy some land or aquire some permission to hunt private land if that doesnt work out then public land, and if still no luck get a lease. but dont give up on asking people for permission . remember all that they can say is no. thats not so bad. in the 2 years i have been hunting i have had no problem finding a place to hunt. and im only a teenager, so its harder for me. but i am def. more responsible and mature than most kids i know.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

Because I live in a state that has an abundance of whitetail deer, but NO pronghorns.

I'm going to an area of the country where I know no one.

I "personally" have chosen not to hunt with an outfitter for animals that I can hunt right out my back door (Whitetails and turkeys). Just a personal decision.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

I was just curious is all. Antelope hunting is alot of fun, totally different hunting compaired to whitetails. The tough part is getting them close enough to ya! (Water hole hunt them) Good luck hunting them!

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I've never used an outfitter for deer or turkeys, but if I were going out west to hunt elk or pronghorns i'd probably use one. It's such a different game that I wouldn't know where to begin.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

Great story Mike,,,,,Now with Craigs property, its somewhat like renting it right?

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

There are a lot of considerations.Do you intend to go back to the same state and area repeatedly? If so DIY is the only way to go,especially if you are hunting deer.How much time will you have to devote to your trips,the longer the amount of time the more a DIY makes sense.
If you are hiunting larger species such as Elk or Moose do you have the equipment and knowledge to get the animal out of the woods in sufficient time not to ruin the meat? There are a lot more variables when hunting larger game and if taking a one time trip of this nature a good outfitter may make that trip a lot more pleasant.
It is definitely my preference to DIY,I like to have the outcome determined by my own efforts.
Contact Fish and Game in the states you wish to hunt ask to speak to the biologists for the particular species you wish to hunt,they can provide a lot of excellent information,tell them what your goals are and ask them given your goals what area's of the state should you be focusing on,sometimes they can even direct you to rental housing,cabin,house,motels etc.
If you decide to go the route of an Outfitter come back on the board here or PM me so myself and others here can help you with that process.There is nothing worse than a terrible outfitted hunt!

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

The kicker is time and money. If you don't have the time to travel to scout and prep a bit and have some dough than go for it.

It seems alot of guyslump outfitters in with high fence operations which is not fair.I DO know from experience that some "guides"will put you in a stand you would ever dream of setting up there if itwas your choice.

I did a $1500.00 " (CHEAP) guided" week long PA hunt a couple of years ago and in hind sight I could have had better odds if I had given myself three days to scout on my own prior to hunting and just hunted a couple of days.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

I love hunting the Edmonton Bow Zone for giant whitetails. If you're a non resident you MUST hunt with a guide in Canada, it's the law.;)

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

Thats what bites about hunting in Canada if your not into the guide thing, alot of monster game in that country!

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

Do whatever you think best according to the time, money, and challenge you prefer. Personally I prefer DIY hunts though I have only hunted once out of state. Went on an elk hunt with a guy who invited me along. Long story short, he has a prosthetic leg and is limited to his travel and terrain. I am determined to get an elk DIY on public land, but I will choose where I go next time. Lots of research available from state's department of natural resources on success rates in different areas, game populations, hunter numbers, laws, and permit availability.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

I would also check out Craig Neace @ bowhuntingwhitetails.com

He basically has land that is available for hunting. You do the work, he gives you access. He's very reasonable as well.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

It's all a tradeoff, being successfull, unless you are VERY lucky, takes time to research the area to find "zones" to hunt, get access to private property if needed, then scout and find smaller areas to concentrate on. Then there's the learning curve needed if going after a new animal.

If you have the time, money and ability to do the above in a timeframe to your liking, go for it.

Outfitters cut that above time to zero, or close to it, you still need to research the outfitter!

I've been on 3 guided elk hunts and agree with GMMAT, i won't go guided for whitetails, i can do that here. Though who knows what the future will bring. However I LOVE hunting bugling elk but its a different world than sitting in a treestand waiting on a whitetail.

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My question is that are you going to different states for deer or other critters? If for deer, & you feel comfortable with on the spot scouting and the potential to see nothing, then go DIY. If your goal is to see deer and gain more experience, then go outfitter and take no shame in doing so. If you are going for other critters, then I would certainly go outfitter to get your feet wet, then decide if you’d like to go DIY from then on.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

I would personally go for public ground. I would hate to go to another state, use an outfitter, and know that I'm hunting on property that was leased so that no local hunters could use it. I firmly believe that outfitters and personal leasing will be the downfall of this great sport. It's destined to become a rich man's sport. Just my two cents. Do it yourself and take pride in knowing that you usedYOUR skill to succeed and have a good time.

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I feel the same way as splitear on this one! Do it yourself in the lower 48, why contribute to a hunting pimp that takes away hunting land from other hunters.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

i agree and at the same time completely disagree with this...

for locals, yes, it DEFINITELY sucks that the guides are sucking up the land and charging out the wang for a hunt... which, as other mentioned, I'd never use a guide for game I can hunt locally or that is available for me to hunt without a guide...

however....... for guys like me that want to hunt Elk, caribou, 'lopes, or etc., well, a guided hunt from a reputable guide service is about the only way you can do it economically... think about it, me living in the chicago area I'd have to buy a very serious amount of gear to be used for a one week per year hunt... not to mention travel (by truck of course)... it would take me about 5-7yrs of unguided hunts to make up the cost difference... then toss in the very low success rates of people hunting areas/animals they are not familiar with, not to mention eating up at minimum 1-2 weeks worth of vacation days that I can use for other things since I can hunt whitey's fairly locally...

what I hear from the anti-guide hunters sounds a lot like "local's rule, tourists drool" kinda sour grapes... they want their land all to themselves and can't stand the fact that there is an entire economy in the area based on this...

guides are part of hunting now, whether we like it or not... I'm takin each of my boys to WY for a guided antelope hunt for their 12th bday, its something they cannot hunt locally... they will have taken whitey's by then anyway so this is kind of a special treat for them...

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

If you are able to hunt Kansas and Missouri, unlimited days, My advice: Do not go any where else to hunt!! You are one lucky dude!!

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SevenMag,
I have no sour grapes towards anyone. Trust me, I understand the economic standpoint of both the outfitter and landowner, but in this case I have to plead a little selfishness. You can say, well think about how much money is brought in by the outfitter, or how much extra income a landowner brings in off of idle ground. Or, what about you, who likes to spend money to kill game that he would otherwise never get a chance to take. But then ask this question. What about me, the guy who can't afford to own ground, lease ground, or let alone pay thousands in a guided hunt. I mean my goodness, we just had a 5 acre patch of fencerows that we have hunted for 20 years get leased buy a bunch of lawyers from Alabama. I'm telling you, it's the downfall of this sport. I fear that in the next 15 years I will have to give it up completly because I won't have anyplace to hunt. I guess that's just the economics of it though. I dread the day I have to sell my equipment and quit hunting. Who knows, maybe I'll get lucky enough to get hired as a guide for your next vacation.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

i hear what you're sayin splitear, which is why i both agree and disagree with you on it... i'm fortunate enough to have purchased my own land to deer hunt on... and plan on purchasing more as mgmt time and $$ permits...

reconciling public hunting vs private leases/guided hunts is going to be difficult... if the free market allows guides to dominate to the point where public hunters have no chance I believe we'll either see legislation (not likely) or the anti-access guys (check out the blue ribbon coalition as a group that fight anti-access groups) are gonna ruin it for everyone... maybe the best thing that could happen would be to restrict the amount of leased land in the state and the number of guide permits granted... only thing i can think of which will drive the price of guides thru the roof (supply and demand eh??)

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

I think that legislation that would help a lot would be prohibiting leased ground from being entered into any government programs, i.e. the conservation reserve program. I also believe that the landowner should have to pay the same amount of taxes on leased ground as they do for regular production ground as they are earning an income off of it. In Illinois some efforts have been made as far as tax programs on leased ground, but nothing has been accomplished to my knowledge. Also, here is a wild idea, if outfitting brings in a lot of extra income for the DNR, why shouldn't this money be re-invested into public ground? Maybe we should start looking at state supported leases where the state pays landowners to allow hunting on their property. Something is going to have to happen my friends, at least it is here a highly marketed state like Illinois, or the game's gonna be up for we local hunters. We'll be watching Realtree Outdoors saying, "That used to be my treestand."

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

i would go to an outfitter i plan to soon.
I started 4 years ago right after moving to KY at the age of 18.

I love it aswell

as for other state you will pay more for licenses and some state it is mandatory to have hunter ed.

Also though do not just go with outfitters

go out on public land i think it helps us all learn to scout alotbetter then private land.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

I'm a outfitter from Manitoba,Canada and to let you know not all outfitters lease land or own there own up here, I personaly knock on doors myself and when there hand comes out i shake it if they want more i tell them that i would ever take away hunting from any local for my own gain and leave with a thanks anyways.
For anyone considering hunting with a outfitter get involved with them call ahead and find out if they need help setting stands clearing shooting lanes and become there friend not just another client, any of the hunters i have had have been more than willing to lend a handand i always appreciate there imput they may be the ones sitting in the treestands or ground blinds I do this outfitting because ilove it!I don't do it to get rich!!

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

Oakcreek,
That's great that you don't lease any ground, but do you get sole permission on this ground? Are local hunters allowed to hunt the property you put your paying clients on. You may not care about profitting from hunting, but are you? If you did it just because you love it you would do it for free.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

sounds like to me you got a good thing going i have wanted to hunt canada since i started hunting.

also i have no proplem with someone buying land or leaseing it to make money. Whats the big deal . i would rather see you buy it make a wildlife refuge and hunt it then see a walmart built there

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

Do It Yourself. I like full control on when and where I am going. If you can afford to hunt a private lease for a week that would be good too. Public is good too but it can be risky where you may waste your time if you get into an area that has a lot of pressure.

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

It would not take you 5 to 7 years of unguided hunts to make up the difference! My very first year elk hunting ran me about 2,000 bucks, the 1st year is the worst. All my hunts after that ran about 1,300 bucks. I'm sure it may cost abit more now, Its been 3 years since I've last went. Your going to double that easily and then some with a guide and trust me your not guaranteed an elk either, your chances may be better being your a 1st year hunter but that doesn't mean meats going to be in the freezer!

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Ifthere are locals that also have permission on the same ground i stay out they can even use mystands i tell them if i seena good buck or just deer in genral.The amount that i charge covers my cost of the hunt and my time off work nothing more.

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what do you charge i am thinking about doing an outfitter next season

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: bigtim6656

what do you charge i am thinking about doing an outfitter next season

Check out my add in the classifids (manitoba archery 08)

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

sounds good i will go look [quote]ORIGINAL: oakcreek

RE: Outfitter vs No Outfitter
 

Definately no outfitter! This is what huntings all about, exploring new territory, hunting where you want, making your own decisions.
Your really not hunting if you hire someone to take you to the game and the only thing you really did is shoot the animal. Thats not hunting in my book. You didn't do any of the leg work or thinking that comes with hunting.
Anyone with money can go out and buy themselves a trophy. Its the fellas that get out on DIY hunts that are the true hunters in my book IMO.