RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

In my state you can hunt with a X bow as long as you have a disability thatkeeps you from shooting a long, recurve, or compound bow. I have helped several get their permits.
You need the proper paperwork filled out by a Doctor and the State will issue you a permit, that is, if you do indeed have a disability and just not a slacker!
Not wanting to take time to practice, shaking,or justbeing a total spaz with a real bow is notconsidered aDisability for a X bow permit!
The form is minimal and most go to the doctors office for shots and whatnot durring the year especially if they have a disability, so it being a hassle is a crock if you really want to hunt!
Whoever said above that Xbow manufactures do not lobby to get it into our archery season is in La La land, They have been trying to do this for about 25 years now and are getting closer and smarter every year, just like this law using an age limit to slip it in by making you think a 62 year old is going to crap his pants if he has to pull a regular bow.
There is major money to be made if they get an open season on Xbows if they can even turn 10% of gun hunters over to hunting with the Xbow.

It takes archery skills to be an archer, if you are proficient with a rifle you will be proficient with a Xbow.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Your ignorance is unbelievable. Just because you have shot one does not mean you know alot about them. Your spreading these LIES & UNTTUTHS only hurts the whole hunting comunity. These lies, to the uneducated, become what they learn from, just like what you now believe. What ends up happening is that the crossbow world needs to re-educate these people as to the truth about crossbows and their ability.

Yes you can shoot and hit bulleyes at 20, 30, & 40 yards with little practice, is that a bad thing, no it is not. I would rather have a hunter able to hit their target then someone that hunts with the vertical bow, that does not practice and can't hit what they are aiming at. They still hunt, even though they are not accurate. Do not way that this does not happen, because it dioes all the time.

Now a little education on crossbows. You can't snap shoot a crossbow like a gun. It takes the arrow time to leave the rail after you release the arrow. THis is simular to the muzzleloader in the time delay. Actually it is even more of a delay then your vertical compounds. You have to learn to hold onto your target after you shoot, or you will never be accurate. There is a shooters form that you need to achive if you want to become accurate when hunting. There is also some major safety factors that you need to learn about, without practice, I doubt that you will ever learn it untill it is too late.. Many gun hunters, the fore hand will grup all the way around the forestock and barrel, do that with a crossbow and your on the way to the hospital. Even just haing a part of your hand above the tope of the weapon will possibly send you to the hospital. For a shooting window, you need a horizontal window for the width of the limbs, not the vertical window which the vertical bows use. This is a huge diosadvantage as trees normally grow vertical wish makes it easier for the vertical window over the horzontal window. Even after all that, you need to learn the tradjectory of the arrow. Only practice of shooting will give you that or let you learn that. They are not flat shooting like you try to make them out to be (just like a gun). There are many things you need to learn, and only practice will let you learn that. Yes it is an easier transition for the vertical archer to the crossbow then a gun hunter, but you still need to practice to learn what is needed to be learned. This was just a minor lesson, there are other things which need to be learned as well.


Now this above statenment is just plain ridiculous. With todays bows and advancements, you can pull back a bow (vertical) a long time ahead of when your going to shoot, espically with the higher poundage bows (90% and greataer). With those bows, are you not only holding back 5 pounds or less when at full draw. Now what about that bow which is 99% let off, that would be less then one pound at full draw. I do not know if this is true or not, but I was told that with that 99% bow, wonce it was at full draw, the actuall weight of the bow, if the limbs hung down would hold the bow at full draw. Who then needs to draw back the bow when the deer could see you.

Even with what I said above,how many hunters hunt from blinds. Not just the popup blinds, but ground blinds, hunting boxes, treestand boxes, treestand blinds,ect.. All of these totally hide you from the animal when you draw back the bow, so there goes your main argument. And BTW, the very little movement you claimn is a little deceiving science the crossbow is larger, bulkier and causes more visable movement then your vertical bows. You see, the vertical bows are vertical like the trees, the crossbows are horzontal which makes it movement more noticable because it is different then the surrounding area.

As I said above, this thread was started on choice of bows, not as a BASHING CROSSBOW THREAD with missleading untruths........ I think it whould get back on topic.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

First off, I didn't read all the previous posts, so if I say something that's been said, I apologize.

I'm 40 years old right now and I'm starting to have some major shoulder problems. I've been a carpenter for almost half my life and between that, a couple motorcycle accidents and a few bad fights, I don't know if I can draw a bow much longer. I think I may have 4 or 5 years left, but after that, what should I do? Quit hunting? Our firearms seasons in Illinois only last for 13 or 14 days total, but our bow-season goes from Oct. 1st to the second thursday in Jan. That's alot of hunting I'd be giving up on when I can't draw my bow. Would it be that bad to use a crossbow? I never have, and actually was against them at one time, but I sighted one in for a friend of mine who was in from Ohio and bought one at a clearance sale and I'll tell you you still have to practice and execute some sort of good shooting-form to hit where your aiming.

People need to remember if we don't stick together on all these hunting issues we're going to fall one after the other. The state is making it easier for more hunters to get out there and take deer. First Illinois goes over-the-counter with tags (about 13 years ago I think), then 2 years ago, we went to a phone-in check-in, which made checking your deer in alot more convenient. Then they made it where we can hunt with handguns, muzzleloader and shotgun through all the seasons (I might be wrong on one of those seasons. Please excuse my mistake if I am). And now they're letting older guys get out there with alot less hassle. What's the problem? It's getting more and more people out there hunting. Let's support it and embrace it. Then if something comes up later on where the traditional equiptment is under fire (as an example), I'm sure all these crossbow shooters will step up and defend and support like we should be doing now.

I just think we should support each other alot more than we do. If you don't like hunting with a particular type of weapon, then don't hunt with it. But don't condemn others because theirs doesn't measure up to yours in your eyes.

I'll get off my sop-box now.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

I have no problem with the law.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Sliverficker I see you believe all that garbage ........ too bad as it is not true. Yes some States the forms are not that difficult to get, but some is very restrictive and difficult. Not only that, it takes a trip to the DR's which costs time and money. Usually the Dr's chage fees to fill out forms.

Now about your comments of calling me a LIAR or in LA LA LAND. I think you need to rethink your accuations. I said I did not know about these new companies in the crossbow world (but they are so knew, they could not have much effect correct) but I only knew about Excalibur and what they have done. Excalibur choose many many years ago not to apply pressure on the governments to allow crossbows. What they decided to do was to educate hunters and shooters with a web page and forum. YOu see, people have more pressure then a small company, mostly because a company would be looked as something only after money, but people are look at as a POSSIBLE VOTE. The more people that learn the truth, will then start to sway others as well. IT is the people that are applying the pressure on the governments. That and the Legal Courts in the USA. You see,a little while ago, there was a guy that won a lawsuit (a fedual lawsuit) againt his STATE (Col) for discrimination. With this ruling, other States decided to allow crossbows becasue there had been lawsuits started against them or were about to be started. THey choose to allow them so they would not be sued.

Why do you think that BowTech entered the crossbow world. They wee that the truth about crossbows are coming out and that crossbows are going to be another tool for a hunter to choose from.

That brings up back to what this thread was started about ...........It is nothing more then another choice of a tool for a hunter. It may not be a choice that you want to use for yourself, but others that need it, have that ability to choose, to continue to hunt, just like bowman15 is facing in a few years.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Well, I'm done. Obviously Grumpyoldtom is an Xbow shooter and I'm ignorant to the point of being unbelievable. LOL I know, Xbow shooters need lovin too. Although, I don't think I'd go as far as you did in saying my lies are hurting the whole hunting community. God help you if anything real serious comes up. LOL

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

I think its a good thing, my grandpa could no longer pull back a compound but now he is able to hunt with a crossbow, I for one am fortunate that they passed this so that I can continue to share time and memories in the field with my grandpa.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

I think I'm done too. Don't want to hang around for the punching, scratching, gouging and kicking. [8D]

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Where does one draw the line Grumpy? Come on now, were all going to get old eventually and there's going to be some things were not going to be able to do anymore as we get old, thats life and reality! If and when I get to that point i'll go out and buy a ML. Whats next? A gun shooting arrows? (Thats what crossbows are to me). Some people are concerned for the right reasons that bow hunt! These crossbows should be called crossguns and then some bow hunters probably wouldn't get so offended with them. Bow hunting already has moved way beyond what I thought it would and should like Art had said in his post! They too often get put in the same category as a bow and arrow and thats the farthest thing from what they are, at least compared to what I shoot anyway. If they actually changed the name of these things to something without the word bow in it i'd probably never say anything about them.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

The thing that makes the compound alot harder IMO is finding a shop that not only sells the stuff, but knows how to tune it. Most shops have people in them that are hunters and shoot compounds so that is all that is needed for a job. Then these same people sell equipment and accessories that they have no idea how to tune properly. I have one friend that had a well tuned High Country and I was able to shoot four inch groups one afternoon with only a little work. Most that walk out of shops are not set up right, so starts the quest of trying to find the right stuff for the shooter. I used to think not having to draw on a deer was a advantage but I feel that it is not any more. I always sit in my stand and most of the time deer sneak up on me as I am thought about other things. This year I stood up, readied a camera, was ready to shoot, then had my grunt tube that was on the tree get tangled in my wide recurve Excal, which is about as wide as the newer parallel limb bows. Then had to turn in stand all while the Buck was about fifteen feet away. Sometimes I think drawing on a deer would not be so hard if guys where shooting bows that they could draw without aiming at the sky as they do so because they are shooting bows bigger then they are capable of. You can argue that the CB is easy to use, but a CB does not make deer walk into range with magic. It still takes the same skills to master the 20 yard game. Most think the CB is a 50 yard tool. They forget that it sounds like smacking a hammer on a table and string jump is a big problem for the CB. I consider my max 30 yards.

What it all boils down to is selfishness. We all do it, Compound, CB, and Gun. We are scared to death that more hunters will fill the woods and shoot all OUR deer. A skilled hunter can be one of the most selfish hunters you will ever meet, some are, some are not. But we are all in the start of the season for change on this. Ohio and AR have set the model that the CB will not ruin deer hunting, we both have been doing it for over 30 years. Now there is nine states that allow pretty much full use of the CB during the archery season, more states are on the books and the change is coming. I think we will see in our time the stores just as full of CB's as compounds. Bow-tech is just one recent example of the Compound maker lining up to make his share of the pie. It may take time, but soon they will all be making them and then will stop paying the antis to fight for them. As soon as the makers stop funding the anti's there will be fast change.

One thing that is the worst about this entire thing is what this thread does. Makes fellow hunters fight each other. We all hate Peta for trying to limit and stop our hunting, we despise them for it. What do we call a compound guy that wants to keep a fellow sportsman out of the woods? Is this anger toward the CB not insane?

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Schultzy it is not up to me to "draw the line" or set the age, that is for your government and the people that they govern, But I honestly think that crossbows should be open to everyine, to do for only the disabled or the physically weak .......... well that is a discriminatory act.

I see your a Pope & young member so lets back up to about the late 1960's. This was when compounds were developed and started to come into the hunting worlld (BTW ..... crossbows had been around for a long time even then). Compound gave the shooter extreem advantages over the recurve and lonbow. What you are complaining about today, with the crossbow, were argued then about the compound. The crossbow is more traditional then any compound, just check out the history of archery. YEs crossbows do give the shooters an advantage over the longbow and the recurve, but not any more of an advantage then the compound does. The advantages are different between the compound and crossbow, but they are generally equal.

Now the turm CROSSGUN is a SLANG TERM used by the ANTI-CROSSBOW groups to scare people and to intentally mislead people on crossbows. A gun is an instrument or device that projects an object by a means of fire. Where a bow is an object or device which projects an object by a means of limbs and string. I am sorry but the crossbow uses limbs and strings to project an arrow not by the use of fire.

BUt again, this is not a bashing crossbow thread, if you want an education on crossbows, start another thread and I will give you REAL DATA, not reterick or whims that the anti-crossbow croud puts forth. Again this thread was about choice, choce one if you want and chooce not to use one if that is what you want.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Fact is you can copy these forms in most states right off your home PC.
Another fact is, if you can afford a 1000.00 X bow you wont get to bent out of shape forking over 20. bucks the docMay orMaynot charge you when you get your flu shot or whatnot. This reminds me of the guys that spend 3000.00 a year on gear and gas to go hunting and shoots a fawn because their family needs the meat when he could have baught a couple cows!
It was not liar, it was LA LA Land! I have satin the inner circle and seen the going ons! And why is it you dont think a web site to push a product is not a form of lobbying? And I am sureExcalibursdoes notinform their distributors and dealers how much money there is to made if they can just get it in the whole archery season.
The sad thing is, that the ones above that think they cant bowhunt with gramps no more, or that they themselves will no longer be able to hunt because of an injury, are the truly misinformed ones! Most States allow someone with a disability to hunt with a Xbow durring archery season.

You must have me mistaken for a BowTech suck butt? Sure they make a good bow, but your not going to get me to believe they enterd the Xbow market for the betterment of mankind instead of a profit!

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

I'm not disagreeing with you on advantages they get compaired to compounds, there isn't much. But your telling me pulling a trigger on a device that you don't have to draw is the same thing? Not even close! Thats a hell of alot closer to shooting a gun then shooting a bow. Thats why I said they should be called (Crossguns) I've never heard the word before, just made it up and thought it sounded better then crossbow! Why am I selfish with my opinions and your not with your comments?

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Schultzy, a crossbow has to be drawn and cocked, that does not happen on a whim, you need to apply all that force into the limbs of the bow. It is just done before hand. What is the difference in the compound when you can have a 99% let off and only have to hold back less then one pound pressure, or better yet, let the limb of the bow hang down which would hold the bow at full draw. I also read an artical, from a regualr vertical magizine, that over 95% of archers now use triggers to release their arrow. Combine that with the 99% letoff and what advantage do you have with the crossbow.

I have never said that crossbows do not give an advantage, just that the crossbow and the compound are generally equal in the gaining of advantages. If you are a compound shooter, then you have no right to complain. If you are a recurve or longbow shooter, then you are at a disadvantage compared to the compound or recurve. I believe that if you eliminate one, then you should also include the other as well. But, both should be allowed for a choice.

But like I said, if you want to debate compound/crossbow, start another thread.


Sliverflicker, putting up a website and forum is an educational tool, not a lobbing act. To lobby a government is to go apply pressure on the government itself. Forms can usually be gotton off the internet, but I guess you think all disabled have as easy a time as you (an abled body person) in getting around. Some States will only allow you to get it, the form filled out by certain people, not just by anyone. A thousand dollars for a bow, not all crossbows cost that much. A good quality Excalibur, complete package can be purchased for about $6-700 is your lucky. I deal with members with a disability and want to hunt with a crossbow. they just want to get back out into the woods like before they were disabled The difficulty they have coming up with enough money to get what they need is unbelivable. You see, limited budget means somewhere they have to go without something to get something else. $10, $20 or eve $100 for these forms to be filled out can mean that they have to do without many things which are needed (yes I have seen $100 for a form). Weither you believe it or not, getting these forms filled out is a major inconvience for the person needing to get it done ......... I wonder if the abled body person would complain if they were required to get these forms filled out (same costs and time requirements) just to say that they were physically fit to use the vertical archery equipment they choose to use.

But like I said, if you want to debate compound/crossbow, start another thread.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Okay, so maybe I'm not gone just yet... [&:]

Schultzy, you and others seem to be laboring under the misconception that crossbows are wearing rifle stocks. Not so. Crossbows were around at least 1,600 years before firearms were invented. (First reliable record of a crossbow being used was in the battle of Mai-Ling, China around 340 BC, but they've discovered bronze crossbow parts they believe date back to around 750 BC.) Then it was another hundred years or so after development ofsmall armssize firearms before someone got the bright idea of mounting one of those original hand cannons onto a crossbow stock.

So, shooting arifle is like shooting a crossbow. Not the other way around.

Of course, you can't pull a compound and keep it drawn all day like you can a crossbow. On the other hand, with a high let-off bow you CAN pull a compound while the animal is coming in your direction, well before it can see the movement,and hold it for an extended amount of time while waiting for the shot opportunity. Whether or not some individuals do or do not use this tactic is immaterial. The capability is there, inherent in the design. IMO, this is no different than using a crossbow because the bow is pre-drawnlong before the shot is presented.

This is why P&Y held out so long with their 65% let-off rule, to discourage that tactic andmaintain an easilydemonstrable difference between compounds and crossbows. But, bowing to demand from the majority of bowhunters, they dropped the rule.Thus, theyhave actuallyforfieted any pretense at having a basis for opposition to crossbows and their decision destroyed any credibility theyhad on the issue.

The ability to maintain the crossbow 'cocked and locked' during hunting is an advantage, but not anything close to the advantage it was 25 years ago when 50% let-off was as high as you could get. Those anti-crossbow arguments that were so effective all those years ago have been rendered moot due to the advances in compound technology.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Every crossbow shooter that I know has a handcrank attached, making it easy to get the bow cocked.

I've seen a lot of posts here saying that many are against crossbows for those who cannot physically shoot a bow. Far from the truth! I'd say 100% or near that are for people using crossbows IF they are physically unable to draw a bow.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Agreed Cougar. I've only ever heard one ...maybe two people say no crossbows period. I don't care if people use them or not. That's their business if it's legal. I just am not a big fan of them is all. They're too easy to shoot.[8D][8D] LOL Physical problems or handicapped, no problem. Get a crossbow.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

LIke I said in that above post. How would the abled body person behave if that was applied to them. Why should the disabled be put through all of that when the abled body hunter is not. Is that not discrimination ............ Unfortantly it is so. Even your surpreme Court has ruled that it is. Just to make it the same for everyone that hunts with archery (not just for the the disabled which want the use of crossbows), I think that everyone should have to get the medical form fill out to hunt with archery. For the abled body people, they get a form saying that they are physically fit enough to use a vertical bow and the disabled get one saying that they are not physically fit so they can use the crossbow.

Cougar Mag I have not said that the majority on here are against crossbows. It is actually a very few, but these few are very vocal in thier statements which are usually totally misleading and this upsets me because the other people that do not know anything about crossbows start to believe the untruths. When that happens, it is a total disservice to the whole hunting comunity. I have started to see more and more people stating that they were once anti-crossbow and now do not believe any of the things against the crossbow any more.

There are a variety of different methods for cocking the crossbows, But unlike you, just about everyone I know that has a crossbow does not use the cocking devices, other then a rope cocking aid (lowers the power needed by 50%, but still done by hand).

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Being I don't shoot a compound these arguments of mine are very well based! You know that, you've said it yourself when compairing archery equiptment! I don't like it but I guess there's nothing more I can do about it then vote it down in the state I live in when it comes to that which isn't far away. If I knew all they were going to do was allow them for medical reasons, it wouldn't bother me as much. I know better then that though, give them an inch and they'll take a mile and before you know it bow hunting won't be bow hunting no more! Everyone will take the easy road and not have a clue what actual bow hunting is about period! That is what scares the hell right out of me!

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

If your complaing about crossbows because they give advantages to the shooter over the recurve and longbow, then why are you not complaining about the compound. Both the compound and crossbow give an advantage, although the advantages are different, they are generally equal. But like I said, if your going to banish the crossbow for these advantages, then you should also include the compound in the banishment.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

At least you still have to pull your compound back! This has nothing to do with traditional verse compound, don't try starting another stupid argument. Your to ignorant to understand what i'm trying to say! I can understand what your saying about being disabled and wanting to shoot a crossbow, thats understandable! Your way to ignorant to see where i'm coming from though!

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

In a blind or up in a tree (to a lesser extent), the deer can't see you do this.

Should blinds and treestands be made illegal for the same advantage?

Steve

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Get real! Two totally different things! I've been busted in both ways!

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Would that be the cheap blinds with the open windows, or the ones that are real hard to use with the shoot through mesh! LOL!! But at least if a guy behind the curtain is using a compound he must be a real man!!

Edit to add:
Forgot to add that Shoot through blinds are ok since it only gives the current hunter a advantage. It does not create the chance of competition from another hunter, therefore the advantage is not discussed and kept quite.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

In my case, and its because the way I am its not so much crossbows I am against for just anyone to use, its the traditions in general that I rail against and simply for anyone to use a crossbow is another change in that direction. I've seen a mighty change in attitudes in just the last 5 years alone. For instance:

P&Y changing the 65% letoff rule due to pressure mainly by bow manufacturers. How did the manufacturers have a large hand in doing this? Simply by building and selling high letoff bows. P&Y had little choice and in fact I am simply amazed at the large contingent of bowhunters who do not care or do not recognize what P&Y has done for bowhunting.

QDM is actually QAM in disquise as practiced by some. Why not say its strictly for growing bigger racks instead of herd management?

The growing number of outfitters that are displacing the average hunter.

The notion that because a deer happens to travel through, feed, or bed on your land makes it your deer. I've seen this kind of thinking cause rifts between adjoining landowners and hunters who hunt neighboring land. The deer and wildlife is the public's deer and wildlife.

Some states(especially Illinois) using the excuse of giving more opportunities to others by changing bag limits, seasons, etc., when its actually helping fill their coffers only to be siphoned off to the general fund as in Illinois.

OK, enough ranting by me now. My post was wayyyyy off topic.[X(]

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

great they should let him use a cross bow if he wants

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Alot of people should support the P@Y! There the biggest spenders and pushers for bow hunting today! I do and always will support the P@Y unless they themselves loose touch also in what bow hunting is. They have lightened there stance a bit, I can go for that but I hope it don't go to far.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

I guess your arguement is so great and full of truths that you have to get into NAME CALLING. Just shows what your class is like. BTW I am not ignorant and I know where your coming from. Your from the mentality of NOT IN MY WOODS< I DO NOT WANT ANY MROE HUNTERS IOUT HERE WITH ME SHOOTING MY DEER. I have asked many questions on here that noone seems to want to answer. By the way, compounds should be class the same as crossbows because both give the shooter equal advantages (although different advantages) over the recurve and longbow. IF you can't see that then your blinded by greed (the fascts will support my statements).

I will restate this post and question that everyone seems to forget about.
I honestly do not think that it is fair for the abled body person not to have to go through all of that when the disabled has to. because of this blantant discrimination, it whould be opened up for everyone, unless the abled body person has to get a medical exam, the same as the disabled to say that they can physically hunt with their choice of bow.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Now that's the pot calling the kettle black. LOL This is the same Grumpy that called me a liar andignorant isn't it? LOL

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

You need to wake up. The pope & young is just out to make money for their organization. Why did they raise their 65% let off rule, it was not to prommote hunting, it was to be able to include more hunters into their rules (most bows had higher let-offs then 65%). This would mean more possible members, which means more money for them. BTW was it not you that was complaining about the greed of companies just after money.

Ok more about your Pope & Young. I believe that they list the Record Typical deer in Ontario Canada as 177 when if you check the Ontario Records (FROW) you will find that it is alot higher then that. Why is this, because they (P&Y) does not care if their records are correct or not. They just want memberships which means more money for them. Also, why did Pope & Young change their rule about party hunting (were they not so dead set against it) ............... ummmmmmmm a very interesting indeed.

I would rather support something like ducks unlimited or other groups that do work like that.

Cougar MAg .............. Quality Managment is what the good man upstairs lets happen. I am just as happy for a nice doe as I would be for a 16 point buck.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

You haven't a clue on what your talking about when it comes to the P@Y! Not one bit what so ever!!!!!!!!!

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

I never said that you were a liar ............... I said that you were refuring to me as a LIAR or on LA LA LAND ........... which was your statement . not mine.I also did not call you ignorant ........ I said that your ignorance is misleading others. What that means is that you do have a LACK OF KNOWLEDGE on a certain topic. THere is a major difference between the two.

I guess that might be just too much for someone like you to understand.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

THen if I do not ......... then why do you not educate me as to why they changed their rules and why they do not reconize animals larger then what they reconize (even thought they would normally qualify.

Answe my questions about them and educate me..................... but I also see that everyone still wants to forget about my other questions EH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Drawing a 85% let off compound (you know - real bow:D)in a pop up blind with mesh windows is totally different?

Sitting 25 ft in the air - see deer coming at 100 yds, drawing that 85% let off bow, resting the lower cam on your leg, waiting 5 minutes comfortably to kill him at 20 yds (I've done this) is totally different? Orare neither like getting the draw on the same deer at 20 yds with a 55# recurve - traditional archery? Which of the 3 choices above is most likely to be detected and which ones will stand virtully none of being seen?

Someone either has a severe perception problem or is eaten up with an illogical, self centeredfear or xbows ruining THEIR hunting season.

Steve

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Schultzy, I know exactly what you're saying. Traditional hunters have a lot more credibility with their arguments than the compound side does. What I've been told over and over again by the compound side when I've complained about their unending hunger for more technology and making bowhunting easier and easier is, basically, "we're the majority so you can just shut up." Traditional bowhunters only make up something like 5-8% of the total, so we can't do much of anything but make a little noise and be ignored.

Bowhunting already doesn't even remotely resemble the bowhunting I grew up with. Nearly everyone has already taken the easy route. And they are wanting it to be even easier.

The compound bow has reinvented bowhunting in it's own image and continue to make it evolve into something it was never intended to be. It's extraordinarily ludicrous to methat there are bowhunters now who pass up deer because they aren't big enough. That bowhunting is now a management tool. Bowhunting seasons were originally established to have little or no impact on herd numbers and now look at it. It was supposed to be difficult. People weren't supposed to tag out in bow season. But now they do and it's even gotten to the point they don't think they've had a successful season if they haven't put down a 'quality' buck.

In my opinion, the crossbow won't screw things up any worse than they already are.

But you are right. All you can do is vote and make your voice heard. And send letters and e-mails. Get involved in the politics of bowhunting.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

You have me confused with someone else. Here's what you said about me. LOL I still assumed that saying I'm spreading lies makes me a liar???

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

AP, with all due respect, isn't the majority of deer shot from 20 yards and under?

If that is true, can you not hit your deer with your stick bow when they are 20 yards and under?

So if that is true, which I assume it is, tell me why using a compound is easier than a traditional bow?

Isn't the challenge getting said animal at 20 yards?

I've missed deer at 16 yards with a compound, I probably could have hit said animal with a recurve, at least that's what shooting Matt / PA's recurve showed me so again, why do make the statement, compounds are easier?

I sure read alot of misses on these boards.

I'll give you that compounds may or may not reach out a little further but I don't find them "easier". Hell it's actually easier to point and shoot traditional gear than it is tuning and tweaking a damn compound to do the same....in the hands of proficient archers. Would you not agree with that?

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Did you not say that shooting a crossbow was just like shooting a gun. That if you could shoot good groups with a rifle, then you could just pick up a crossbows and shot it like a gun and easily kill a deer (not your exact words, but very close). Well this was pointed out to you that you were not telling the truth but you continue to spew these incorrect statements ................ that in my mind as well as many others is telling lies. Yes I did say that you were telling lies, but if you want to inturpit that as your are a liar, than that is your opinion. I only stated that your statement was a lie, after you made that same incorrect statement for the 3rd time. I have a tendicy to correct incorrect statements about crossbows so that people that do not know anything about them, will not start to believe them.


Again ............... noone wil answer my questions ............... why not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

Used to be so. I'm not so sure that's the case any more.

Yes, I can. If, and only if,I can draw the bow and execute the shot while remaining undetected.

Because with a high let-off compound, I can draw the bow with the animal coming in, or is passing behind a bush and wait for the shot.I don't have to wait until the deer is right there in front of me before I candraw. I drew my 80% let-off compound once and stood there for 5 minutes at full draw before I finally got bored and let down. Could've easily done at least a few more minutes. I certainly can't do that with a stickbow.

Not really, not when you are able to clip the cap off a pop bottle at 40 yards with an arrow and are set up over a field with a clean view all around. Or, in Texas at any rate, when you're hunting over a feeder - something I do not do, by the way - and have cleaned out a good shooting lane.

Surely you're not suggesting they aren't?? That'd cause the big compound manufacturers extraordinary hardship, lost sales and economic collapse if that rumor got around. ;)Go back and reread my previous answer.

As do I. Some people just excited and forget to aim. I know I've shot arrows at animals before and forgot to pick a spot, or was focused on the rack rather than on the rib cage. [&:]Or they misjudge the yardage or they use the wrong pin, or any of a hundred different things can happen. All of which crossbows are also susceptable to having happen. Not to mention that there are gobs and gobs of folks who do not put in the off-season practice it takes to be proficient, and you can even meet them here on this forum.

Also, we can't forget that there are far too many people who willsay they missed or wounded and lost one rather than admit they didn't even see one.

Darn right I do! That's why I rarely hunt with a compound. But the key words you bring up are "in the hands of proficient archers." It really does take a lot more effort and involvement to become proficient with traditional equipment than it does with compounds. Fortunately, for most traditionals, shooting is enjoyable and it's easy to find time to do something you enjoy vs something you see as a chore to be done. Given the choice between taking out my longbow or recurve and shooting, vs working on and fiddling with the tune on the compound, I usually take the stick and play.

But the fact remains that compounds ARE easier than traditional. And as one who shoots it all, I'd actually put compounds ahead of crossbows on ease of use. See, crossbows also demand a certain level of practice to be proficient, the same exact yardage estimation skills. Crossbows have tuning problems that have to be addressed, just like compounds, and they aren't nearly as easy to adjust.

RE: New Bowhunting Law in IL
 

I was a much much better shot at 20 yards with the compound then i am now with the recurve. Some days i won't even shoot at that range, which is probably 65% of the time. It really depends on how good i'm shooting at the time. Pointing and shooting Traditional gear isn't easy by no means, there's alot more to it then that.