Where do all the bucks go?
 

VABowman's thread about big bucks being harvested got me thinking.....

Other than the one older buck I've seen this year.....every buck I have seen (this year....with 40+ sits and over 120hrs on stand) have been 1.5 yr old deer. I saw (probably) 20+ different bucks, last year.....with 2 of them being 3.5 yr olds...and 2-3 being 2.5 yr olds.

What happens to all the youngsters from one yr to the next?.....in your opinions? Am I just not seeing them? Are they transplanting? Wouldn't others move IN if the latter were the case?

I don't think they're all being taken by hunters. I really don't.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

most move to new areas, but yeah others come in. I have always wondered the same thing. I know just like people, the older the deer the less they move around...especially during daylight. But wow, 40+ sits and only one mature buck...i feel for ya. What state do you hunt?

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

Jeff,

Around here we have point restrictions, but if a 1.5 year old meets the point requirements there is a good chance he'll get shot in gun season provided he made it through archery season. Other than that, any deer that has made it through a couple seasons quickly realizes what's going on once the gun hunters hit the woods and makes himself scarce.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

The bucks are going to be moving around from land to land over the years and that is probably why the bigger/older bucks aren't there anymore. Another thing is the older bucks might not be doing any moving until night when there isn't anybody around.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

Locally....BAMBAMBAM.

I do not know thenumber of young ones that go down, but 70-80% is reasonable. I cannot complain, it is worse in other areas. I think the ones that survive are quite likely to move a bit to establish a different 'home' range between age 1.5 and 2.5. If and how far they move depends onseveral of variables such as human pressure, pressure from older bucks, and how dominant the individual buck is at a young age.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

GMMAT--I know I have sat 30+ times some years and have only seen 1 mature buck...but they have were 10-20 yards outside of bow range. Can be tough but dang it when I arrow a nice buck it sure makes it worth it! When you see a mature buck with a bow around here, you need to make the most of it! You need to make the pressure shot when it presents itself, because you may not see another one within range for another year or two! Or maybe I am just an awful buck hunter...now that may be it. ;)

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

I have one in my freezer ...... just in case you were looking for him ....;)

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RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

Some of them definetly end up in the freezer....Some of them end up coyote food, and others are road kill and other natural causes.

As you no doubt know, the older they are the smarter they are. I'm sure some pick up and move, but I honestly believe that to be a pretty small number. They just become recluses, and don't move far from their beds during daylight. I'm betting if you had let's say....20 bucks around, at least 10 of them are still there....They're just hiding, and apparently doing a mighty fine job of it.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

Oh I found the only mature buck I've seen this year;). He found his way to my freezer, too.

I'm just REALLY surprised I haven't seen more numbers of bucks....and that I haven't seen any over 1.5yrs (besides the one I took).

Just a bit surprised.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

I was just wondering this same thought the other day on my stand. B/C every year I let big 6 pts and small 8 pts walk with the logic that they will be bigger next year and comfortable coming around this area in the winter since Im not shooting at everything that moves. But compairing pics with my cams and deer I see,, I usually never see any of those deer again! I would thinkI would be able to tellthat what bucks are what looking at pics from the following years but I am not seeing anything even close.So I guess I am just letting them grow up for somebody else to shoot 2 or 3 miles away on some other lease.
Wow I am a nice guy!

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

It wouldn't be as much fun if we knew for sure ;).

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

!

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

In my part of the world, North West Texas that is, here is how it plays out;



Early season, Oct., its hot, the big deer are moving still at night on a feeding cycle. You might see one real early in the morning.

Nov., still hot, most are moving during the night. (Have to add; gun season starts and all the big deer are moving in cover, as well.)

Late Nov. They move during early morning and right before night, as well as all night. Working scraps and starting to touch off the prerut. You will find them in thick cover. Got to work for them.

Dec. Hold up with does. They find a hot doe and keep with her in cover all day and night. Big ones that is. The smaller guys are out looking and getting beat up by the big guys. Have to get in the thick stuff to find them. Small ones are on the move.

Late Dec. and Jan. Lots of movement during the day. Looking for food the whole time, as well as finishing off the rut and working second chance does.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

Where did 40 acres come from?

What is D&D Hunting magazine? Where can I get a copy?

How big IS a buck's CORE AREA? Interesting! I've never heard anyone say.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

Deer and deer hunting

I think the core area is bigger than most of us think. It's funny every year I see a different big deer in Dec. I always think, I wonder if the deer i have been seeing is over wherehe used to live:D

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

The more I hunt these rascals the less I find I know about them. I thought I passed on a LOT of younguns last year.....thinkin I'd see them this year. Didn't happen. I really thought that it would just work out that way.

They are wild creatures. Worthy adversaries. I love 'em!

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

This year I was involved with a 3 day track of a wounded maturebuck that led us all over his home range.The experience really opened my eyes to the sheer vastness of a mature bucks home range. This bucks path followed a scrape line that stretched probably a full mile from where he was initially shot to where we called the search off, often times actually bleeding into the scrapes as he passed them by. I would honestly say this deers home range was probably in the ball park of 1000+ acres total after this experience.

I think other than passing bucks, the other key ingredient is habitat improvement that can help to reduce the size of a deers home range, and encourage new bucks that have disbursed to take up residence at your place. Honestly, ask yourself why would a 2.5 year old buck choose to take up residence on your patch?

I strongly believe that passing deer alone isn't going to show you drastic changes in age class of your bucks, or ratio of bucks/does unless you have exclusive control of a HUGE patch of 700+ acres.Youalsoneed to improve the habitat so that you can make most effective use of your patch, and keep the ones you pass close to home.You also need towhack the does consistently opening up places for other deer to relocate to your patch. Better than 50% of the deer that in turn relocate to your placeto fill these spots will probably be does but the others will be bucks, and when your attracting bucks that are 2.5 years old or better they aren't going to leave until they are shot, or until the habitat forces them to leave and find refuge/does/food. Withoutall of these combined I don't think most will see any significant change in age structure or buck/doe ratio by passing bucks alone.

With that said, I can say that this year I've finally started to see improvementson my patchin PA and I contribute this directly to the combination of passing a LOT of the little ones, creating sanctuary,tons of new food sources through timber management and plots, and constant thinning of the does to make new spots for deer to relocate into without having to compete for food/refuge.I believe this keeps their home range a bit smaller than average and we whack enough does to make spots for others to relocate here and those that have relocated are sometimes bucks that are now there permanently. Dan and I have passed in the range of 20x 1.5 to 2.5 year old bucks over the last 3 years (some of these multiple times), and killed 3x does for every 1x buck taken. Before this year we have never seen more than one 3.5+ year old buck per season.I'm now seeing almost a 1:1 buck/doe ratio (when you take fawns out of the mix), andbetter than50% of the antlered bucks I'm seeing are 2.5 years old or better. As a matter of fact, this year in 9 days of hunting PA I've seen 9x different bucks in total. 4x were 1.5 year old animals, 2x were 2.5 year old animals, and 3x were 3.5+ years old or better, and these were all seperate animals.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

!

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

Well....for the same reason a 20 yr old would take up residence in a Sorority house?????:D:D;)

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

Jeff if you like I can send you my copy of D&DH? Check it out then decide if you want to spend that cash on a subscription. I have a 3 yr subscription and I like it because if touches on a lot of things you bring up here in the forums. You work for them?;)

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

Tony:

I'll check into a subscription online. I appreciate the offer. I'll let you know what I think of it after visiting their site.

Edit: OK...looked fine. I ordered the 9 month prescription:)

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

You will not be disappointed.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

A couple of observations...This has been a very funny season here in NC...The leaves should have been off the trees 3-4 weeks ago, with the drought, they are still hanging on....When I went down east the first week in November, the bucks were chasing does....Now we usually had 5-6 hunters out each evening, on 3 different farms, but still not every hunter would see deer...These are farms we have owned for over 40 years and kill 40-50 deer a year off....We still have bucks killed that we never saw, not during planting, harvesting, etc....Because of this, I'm convinced that some big bucks leave their core area during the rut, maybe for a night or two, maybe longer....If you hunt alone and happen to pick the wrong stand for that evening, you might not see anything, it doesn't mean they didn't move...

The rut has been hit and miss here in the Piedmont, down east runs 3-4 weeks earlier than around here...We were seeing does with black hocks along with the bucks....Its just not "hot" here yet....I'm thinking the next 2 weeks will pick up...

Certain stands are just natural routes for big bucks to travel looking for does....All of us know of a guy that has a "hot" stand...Its not usually the feeding area, it's a place where a buck can come through and scent check without being too exposed, when he is "ready"...

I also believe a big buck is "hot and heavy" for maybe a week a year.....That's when he travels and is vulnerable....After that, he settles down a bit...

There are certain bucks that we see several times a year, some of these we see 2-3 years in a row...But, the older, bigger bucks....I still believe there is a certain amount of luck involved when you get to see them, they are just "different"...

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

In most cases your not seeing them. Reasons being could be road kills (More big bucks die this way then people think IMO, you just don't here about it as much becausemost of the time there racks have shed already so know onetalks about the big buck that gothit on the road) Another thing to I really dobeleive is hard on deer or justanimals period isMother Nature itself.She's the cruelest one of all. Another thing too Jeff, bucks get big for a reason by not getting seen. You willunderstand this moreas yougain more timebow hunting. I learned that one a long time ago!!!

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

Last bow season I saw 8 or 9 bucks that were 2.5 years old.Passed on them all,this year I believe the warm weather shut them down,I saw 5 or 6 bucks that were all 1.5 years old in over 60 hours on stand.I did not see a 2.5 year old.I left to hunt out west on 11/7 and missed the last part and best part of our bow season.To my knowledge though no big bucks have been taken in the area's I typically spend time in.Very peculiar year,I thought sure I would see a lot of those 2.5's turn 3.5 this season.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

Schultzy....I took a 3.5 yr old last year...and a 4.5 yr old, this year. I'm just not seeing any of the 1.5 yr olds I passed on, last year.

RE: Where do all the bucks go?
 

They're around i'm sure. In my woods we've got 4 different P@Y bucks ranging from 125" to 150" net bucks that we know of, reason being is wegot them on the cuddeback. Thisyear I shot a nice 8 pt.(136" to be exact) I never seen him on the camera.My brother hasseen 2 other P@Y's, neither were ever on camera.It just goes to show they are there but they are so hard to see even with the cameras out in the woods. We see alot of smaller bucks on the camera too, but don't see all of these while were hunting. They are there, there just not always where you or I are hunting all the time. Frustrating?Very much!!! Thats hunting though!