Where would you aim?
 

Imagine a 1 1/2 ft tallby 4 ft widerectangle as the deer's body with the left side being the head side. So for example on a broadside shot from the ground (with the starting reference pointbeing thebottom left corner of the above rectangle) you would aim 10 inches upand 1 1/2 ft right which puts the point of impact right behind the shoulders for a double lung shot. I hope that's not too difficult to understand. Now, where would you aim and what vitals would you aim for in the following situations?

1) from 15yds away and 30ft up, deer broadside

2) 15yds away, 30ft up, quartering away at a 45 degree angle (meaning moderately quartered away)

3)20yds away, 30ft up, quartering away at a 65 degree angle (meaning severely quartered away)

4) 8yds away, 20ft up, broadside

5) 8yds away, 20ft up, quartering away at a 45 degree angle

It'll beinteresting ito see what your answers are and where your opinions differ.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Well I'm not going to try to figure all that out, it's simple,

I aim for the exit hole, hopefully on the knuckle on the opposite shoulder passing through the lungs and heart.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

On everyone of those shots I would want my arrow to come out onthe oppisite side an inch or two behind the shoulder!

RE: Where would you aim?
 

OK so you're telling me that in situation 5 (8yds away, 20ft up, quartering away at a 45 degree angle) that you will get both lungs and the heart just merely by aiming for the opposite knuckle?I've only killed 3bucks withmybow so my experience is very limited (hence the post) but I don't think that's possible, though I may be wrong. How do you get lungs and heart on a steep and angled deer?

The reason why I'm asking is because I want to know from you more experienced guys which vitals I should be going for in which situations. And in some situations like severely quartering away,the kill zone for the heart is bigger than the kill zone for a double lung.

I think a huge part of the reason why there are so many deer lost to the hands of inexperienced bowhunters is because they are not taught correctly where to put the arrow in different situations. Telling them "oh just put it through the heart and lungs" don't tell them nothing because they don't know where the vitals are once the animal is turned or what have you.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

But if you do that in situation 3 (20yds away, 30ft up, quartering away at a 65 degree angle) wouldn't you onlyget the far lung? I thought that in that situation you might wanna go for the heart?

RE: Where would you aim?
 

This is a pretty tough shot due to the angle and the fact that the distance to thedeer is fairly short. Most folks are going to hit this deer higher than they want. If you aim where rob said, you are probably going to hit higher and wind up hitting the first lung high and far back - hit the second lung low and far forward.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

The lungs are your biggest vitals, keep that in mind! Don't be so concerned about going for that heart shot on a quartering away animal, stay away from that shoulder and go for them lungs!

RE: Where would you aim?
 

I don't think you are imagining the distance and angle of situation 3. On an animal that's severely quartered away you cannot get both lungs. (though I don't know from experience).

Considering that a single lung shot is the last thing you want on a deer, why would you still want your arrow to come out as you stated? As big as the lungs are like you said, when I think about that situation, the arrow still only gets the far lung.

Tell me what I'm not thinking about here.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

I'd take one lung and heart exiting low in the chest depending, still aiming for the exit hole.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Its so darn hard to explain it on here, in person would be so much easier! Alot of timeson a severe angle your only going to get one lung. Don't take the shot if your not confident about it.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

I agree...

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Alright, where is the enterance andwhere is the exit? You say aim for the exit but where is it? Roskoe posted after your previous postand said:

But you're telling me that you'd get one lung plus the heart? I think Roskoe is right but your opinions are very different because Roskoe's opinion doesn't eveninvolve the heart. See what I mean about new bowhunters not being taught right? Don't take that to heart, (no pun intended) butI'm just getting totally different answers here from probably equally experienced guys. A little clarification please. Thank you.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

well then why would you tell me to go for the lungs if in that situation I would only get the dreaded "one lung"?

What you guys are doing is giving me a general cookie cutter answer while I'm asking for specifics. And you're not really thinking about the distances and angles I'm asking about before typing.

I really want and respect your guys' experience but all that's happening here is you're confusing me and are even contradicting yourselves from one post to the very next.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Some of those shots have low percentage success rates and personally i would not even want to take them.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Didn't you read what I said earlier in the post? Its alot easier to show someone in person then trying totell them onhere!!!! Go to a local sportsman's shop or hunting store and have someone explain to you where to aim on certain shots and when not to shoot on certain angles. It will make alot more sense for you that way! All were trying to do is help you out like you asked! In no way are anyone of us arguing with each other on where to shoot in your examples, just some people look at it a different way for different reasons. Good luck!

RE: Where would you aim?
 

you're thinking too much. Just aim for the exit hole. And shoot the damn thing.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

This really is not that difficult. One good thing that was mentioned is aim for the exit. Another, and it would help if you have a 3D target, is to take a bunch of shish-kebob skewers and shove them thru that deer at every conceivable angle you think you might attempt a shot at and try and make them all meet just low of center inside the deer and between the 2 shoulder blades. Make sense?

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Its a fairly simple concept to know where you need to aim, the tricky part is actually hitting that spot haha.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Best advice I could give you is to not get so high in the tree .....and to make some of those angles lessen. From 30' in a tree.....you're SEVERELY handcuffing yourself on what should be "chip shots". You're your own worst enemy.

Look down at the deer......and imagine the path the arrow is going to take THROUGH the animal. Then do as everyone else has been telling you. Aim for the exit hole. Nobody's making this hard, but you.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

I don't ever climb more than about 18ft. The reason I listed some scenarios at 30' is because one of my trees is inthe valley oftwo side by side ridges and that tree is 15 horizontal yds from the valley bottom but is 3 yds higher than the valley bottom where the deer come through.

This probably don't tell you nothingbut that don't tell me nothing. In each of the shotsI listed, the exit hole location is different. My question and I don't understand why nobody understands this is... Whereshould that exit hole be for each shot listed? Enterance has got this all jammed up so how about forget that and just tell me where the exit should be? I'll draw a straight line and figure out how to get there.

Then you obviously did not read the responses. One guy told me one thing and another guy told me another thing. Then one of those 2 guys told me that the reason he told me to aim for the wrong vitals was because "it's hard to explain online." That is not a justifiable reason for why you gave someone misinformation. The real reason why the wrong answer was given was because the shot scenario was not even visualized to begin with like was asked. Why give an answer if you don't even really think about the question?

You tell me Jeff, since I've read many of your posts and you seem to know your left from your right and your north from your south and are pretty good with the language (I don't mean to patronizeby this statement, take it literally)... Anyway, on a deer thatis 20 yards out and quartering away at a severe 65 degree angle while you are 30 feet up higher in elevation than that deer, would you aim for an exit hole that isbehind the far shoulder?and why or why not?

RE: Where would you aim?
 

No.

Why? Because that isn't the "exit hole" I'd want. I'd want one low on the brisket and forward of the off-side leg.

"Aim for the exit hole" is NOT a hard concept.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

No it's not a hard concept. It's also not a hard concept that every shot equals a different exit hole. What don't you understand about that?

You cannot just tell someone aim for the exit when they are not sure where the exit should be.

Someone told me in this very thread that with all those shots listed that the exit hole should be behind the opposite shoulder. That is misinformation in its purest form! One answer does not fit all. What don't you understand about that.

I'm not asking a difficult question. It's very basic, fundamental, or elementary... Where should I aim for as the exit hole on each of these shots? I don't know how to make it any simpler for you.

Look, I don't wanna talk semantics with anyone. If someone is truly and sincerely interested in answering that simple question directly above for me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

There's nothing I DON'T understand about it.

Actually....one answer does fit all. AIM FOR THE EXIT HOLE. You just don't want to accept that it's that easy.

Good luck.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Hoyt, Jeff is absolutely 100% correct, aim for the exit hole.....all of us understand the exit hole area changes with each angle the deer is at and each elevation we may hunt from but it's still that simple,

AIM FOR THE EXIT HOLE YOU WANT! or AIM FOR WHERE YOU WANT THE EXIT HOLE, or AIM FOR WHERE THE ARROW PASSES THROUGH THE DEER AT SUCH AN ANGLE IT TAKES OUT THE LUNGS OR HEART AND EXITS THE DEER....

simple, aim for the exit hole!

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Just for giggles.....

1) from 15yds away and 30ft up, deer broadside -- you're awfully high in the tree.....so you're gonna have to hit high on the deer. I'd AIM FOR THE EXIT HOLE to be just behind the off-side leg and (naturally) low.

2) 15yds away, 30ft up, quartering away at a 45 degree angle (meaning moderately quartered away) -- 45 degrees quartering away is not "moderate". It's pretty severe....and VERY severe from that angle (the angel of the shot.....not the deer). You're gonna need to AIM FOR THE EXIT HOLE to be in front of the off-side leg and (naturally) low.

3)20yds away, 30ft up, quartering away at a 65 degree angle (meaning severely quartered away) -- Previously answered.

4) 8yds away, 20ft up, broadside -- See No. 1

5) 8yds away, 20ft up, quartering away at a 45 degree angle See No. 3

RE: Where would you aim?
 

I suggest getting a 3d deer target and as was suggested before, stick metal skewers through the target at every angle you can think of making each one pass through a central point just behind the shoulder and just below center up and down. This will help you visualize the entrance AND exit of each and every shot you can think of, so you have a point to aim for the next step. After you have done this, set the target at different angles and practice this same concept. Except use your arrows as the skewer and try to get it to pass as close to that same central point as possible while avoiding the heavy bone of the shoulder.

I can't explain this any clearer. The best way to learn is just get out there and experiment with it and learn yourself.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Replying to the specific scenerios posed is about pointless for me because I don't hunt 30 ft up, and there is no possible way for me to explain in inches regarding a box of where my aim point is. Honestly most times when I shot a deer, I am not even thinking about aiming. I just shoot. Sounds really hap-hazard on paper, but its a process my mind goes thru very quickly and subconciously.

Many of my shots try to pass over the top of the heart when dealing with angles, for both steep in close angles, and deer angled away.The opposite leg aimpont is good for many shots, but themore angle away the more I'drather that exit be inFRONT of theopposite leg based on a buck I shot several years back. 13 yds,18 ft up, angled away. Broke his opposite shoulder...should be deaddeer,quick clean kill. Hardly. It was a single lung/liver that was still alive 2-3+ hours later. Recovered the next morning.

For tight in broadside shots a near lung/heart (or near lung right over the heart) shot is about as deadly as you can get.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

You don't have to explain it any clearerJeremybecause you can't. That right there is all I need to know. I don't have to aim foran exit holethat I don't even know where it should be to begin with. If I just make every shot pass through as you put it, "a central point just behind the shoulder and just below center up and down" then the shot will be at its most lethal regardless of the angle or grade. With simply that, I don't need to think about wherethe arrow shouldenter or even where "THE EXIT HOLE" should be because I know what I have to pass through to achieve both.

Guys, I know that some of you may be better with your bows than with your keyboards. Obviously I'm not that good with my keyboard either because my post was very difficult to understand by most.

Thanks rybo, I think what you said and what Jeremy said arepretty muchthe same things. I got it now.

HTH

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Dude, did you completely miss my post middle of page 2? Would've saved you a lot of aggravation.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Exactly loogout, apparently he did miss it. I had saw where you had suggested that and that seemed to be the easiest way to explain it and with all the frustration being caused, I figured it would help to repeat. The best way to learn is just get out there and do it, learn for yourself, look at it and figure it out. This stuff isnt that hard, just takes a little common sense.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Credit where credit is due. You were first to mention that. The way Jeremy worded it just clicked better in my head. Then of course when rybo elaborated on it, that made sense toobecause Jeremy already made it make sense.

RE: Where would you aim?
 

Cool, I actually saw one of the hunting shows has a virtual deer and they re-inact and rate the shots of the deer taken on the show. Very awesome teaching tool. I want to say it is "Deer and deer hunting".