Why is this?
 

I was talking w/ my buddy buckeyebuckhntr earlier this evening, and posed this question. I'm not exaggerating, either, this is the truth.

I know my buck/doe ratio is out of whack, but it's not this darn bad. I HAVE to be doing something right, scent control and such, but why do you suppose I see...........again, this is literal....

30 does to 1 buck??? Is it the spots I choose to sit? Is it bad wind, scent control? Or are they simply not there??

Any thoughts?

RE: Why is this?
 

If you are seeing that many does than you need to start intensely harvesting does. Personally if I was hunting an area with that many does I would basically forget about shooting a buck(unless it was a monster) and start harvesting as many does as I could. Just make sure not to shoot the nubbins;)

RE: Why is this?
 

Whack em and stack em thats what I'm doin you can keep buying doe tags for the city limit hunt,until there gone and there is 41 left and I have a terrible buck to doe ratio also.

RE: Why is this?
 

I agree that does need to be shot, but this is a problem more than that. It doesn't matter what property I'm on, or in what county. This is just a widespread thing I have, a pattern, if you will. I am pretty convinced there's a piece of the puzzle I'm leaving out, I'm just not sure what it is.....

RE: Why is this?
 

In heavily popularted doe areas, alot of guys like to hunt field edges, and open oak flats. I always go in the thicket or the edge. I usually see twice the bucks as my hunting friends.

RE: Why is this?
 

Same here.I will usually see more bucks than doe and we have just now started to get the buck to doe ratio straightened out.

Hunt the buck signs,not the doe trails.

Get in thethicketswhere they hide.

RE: Why is this?
 

What do you concentrate on when hanging stands?

Do you look for doe concentrations (the whole "hunt the does and the bucks will follow" theory) or do you target sites that you believe will lead mainlyto buck encounters?

RE: Why is this?
 

Your problem may not be as bad as you think. Maybe you just aren't seeing the bucks at this time of year.

3 years ago I thought we were starting to have the same problem up here, and it didn't make sense. For about 2 weeks in early/mid October I hunted nearly all day every day. Many of those days I would see 15 does to every buck. I thought, how can this be when I KNOW the buck to doe ratio is nearly 1:2.....It was all in the time of year. Once the end of October rolled around I was seeing 10-15 deer a day and about 40% of them were bucks.

Just my situation and observations.

RE: Why is this?
 

Don, I think most places around here, that is the way the herd is made up. Unless someone has been doing some serious doe thinning.

It used to be that way where I hunt in IL too. Then 5 or so years ago a bunch of us in the neighborhood decide to shoot every doe that offered a shot. And only shoot mature bucks.We now are starting to see the results. There are a good number of shooter bucks running around there. And some real hogs get killed in the area every year now. And it seems the rut activity has picked up recently also. More bucks are seen chasing does and moving in daylight.

But it takes an effort from a group of guys. It would be hard for just one to make much of an impact. But it might be a good start.

RE: Why is this?
 

Though I know my herd is ou of whack.....and I'm working on that.....I also know that what Dan (Canada Dan) describes is what occurs here, too. I didn't see bucks last year until just when Dan describes....then I saw about the same ratio he does.

RE: Why is this?
 

I hunt 99% travel routes. I hardly EVER hunt destinations. I use the terrain alot, in fact, that's what determines most of my set ups. Funnels.

Now, I may find a "hot" area that is suddenly steaming w/ tons of fresh deer sign, and ok, I'll set up on that sometimes. But that's generally not the case.

I do hunt open areas, but they are generally surrounded by thick stuff.

John, I'm beginning to agree with you here. I know, w/out a doubt, the ratio is out of whack, I'm just being stubborn and refuse to believe it's THAT bad. Last year I hunted.......I dunno, 4 different properties I believe, and I could have shot does on at least 80% of those hunts. I saw 10 bucks all season, with only 1 being at leat 2 1/2. And oh, by the way.......Every single one of those were in the first 10 days of November.

Ya'll please don't take this as me whining, I'm not, honestly. I'm just trying to gather as much as I can, and evaluate what I do and how I do it to make myself better.

RE: Why is this?
 

Bucks are in their summer pattern as far as my neck of the woods. I know you didn't have a chance to scout that area to know what the summer pattern of your bucks might have been. You picked prime stand locations but they may not be part of the pattern the bucks are taking....YET. If you are seeing does, it's only a matter of time til the bucks show as well. In the mornings, bucks will seek out doe bedding areas to look for the first receptive doe, in the evening they will wonder and seek out feeding areas because that's where the does will be. You are ahead of the game however, your does are not ready.

RE: Why is this?
 

don't forget also........a doe is a doe is a doe. Unless you have a better eye than me or most other guys I know or have deer with numbers painted on their sides or are seeing 30 does at a time you are very likely seeing many of the same deer over and over.

If you see 6 does one night, 4 the next morning, another 4 or 5 the following evening, and then a single........etc etc. Just because you have seen "30" does without a buck doesn't necessarily mean you saw 30 DIFFERENT does.

I also rarely see does with bucks this time of year. Find where those ladies are sleeping and file that away for rut time. The does will stay but the bucks WILL come.

RE: Why is this?
 

Matt, you make an excellent point, and one that holds water to be sure. There is no doubt I see alot of the same deer.

RE: Why is this?
 

Excellent point, Matt. It's NOT 30:1........VERY good point.;) It's probably (using your scenario)....6-7:1

I KNOW where the does are;)

RE: Why is this?
 

mobo

Help us out here so we can help you.

Privateor Public land ??

Food source ??( crop or acorn )

How much land do you hunt ??( acres )

How much pressure does your hunting grounds see ??

Tell us what you look for in a spot.

A few things I notice about bucks...

They like running the low ground but it is very open here. By running low ground... they can use it to move through an area with out being seen for the most part.

Summer through September finds the bucks usuallybedding in different areas then the does/fawns but using the same feeding areas. Scouting helps if you can do it to find the buck's bedding areas.

They hang fairly tightto really tight to heavy cover until they hit the feeding areas ( ag here ). They enter feeding areas by using low ground. They tend to feed in the low ground. Again it is open here so take that into consideration.

Unlike a doe that has a tendency to wander when moving to a feeding area or back to beeding areas, bucks usuallyseem to have one thing on there mind... Gettingfrom point A to point B in the shortest but safest way usually taking advantage of low ground and heavy cover.

Button bucks, 1.5 and 2.5 half year olds have habits more like a doe. You will catch them on heavy used trails, wandering, coming out earlier to feed and going back later to bed. They are still careless.3.5 years and older finds them being muchmore cautious.Hunting them is not the same as hunting does or young bucks. You hunt closer to the bedding areas then feeding area reguardless ifAM or PM hunt. You hunt heavy cover, funnels/pinch points,corners, and points that jut out. I like my low ground also!! :D

If your area is pressured hard... your 1.5 and2.5year old bucks might be a head of the conditioning curve then our bucks. You may have to hunt them like the older bucks.

Tim

RE: Why is this?
 

I know where my doe is and I'm rutting. ;) [8D]

RE: Why is this?
 

No, thedoe/buck ratio isn't 30:1. That's certainly true. I'm just using gereral math to come up with a median.......I hunted 4 different properties last year, and let's say, for the sake of math, I saw 150 deer all season. Were those 150 different deer? Of course not. Let's say, though, it was 40 different deer......which I believe would be quite close to accurate. Of those 150, 10 were bucks.

You know, I'm thinking about this as I'm typing, and it's just not as bad as I have it built up to be in my mind. I DO see WAY more does than bucks........BUT, given the above scenario, I have roughly a 4:1 doe/buck ratio. At least, that's what I see.......Oh, and those 10 bucks I did see last year..........Every one was a different buck. I didn't see the same buck twice last year, even the yearlings.

Hm, this is becoming quite interesting.......to me anyway.

RE: Why is this?
 

I would say take out the does. Here in Lucas county Ohio they are over populated with does.

RE: Why is this?
 

geez I am a slow typer!!! [:@] No onehad replied when I started typing and now we are on page two before I get my reply in. Never mind answering the question I had asked...I will just read what you said to Washington. LOL

Tim

RE: Why is this?
 

TJF, thanks for your input.

I hunt mostly private ground, w/ some public just for good measure. 90% is private though.

The food sources I key in on are mast crops. Half the prop's I hunt are ag, the other half is big woods. After a crop has been harvested, I don't view it as a viable food source for long. Today's combines are just so efficient, they simply don't toss much grain on the ground anymore.

1 property I hunt is 100 acres, with I would say, moderate pressure. Not real heavy, but not real light either. Another I hunt is several hundred, all woods. Pressure there is pretty light, until rifle season opens anyway. 1 of the public grounds I hunt is around 4000 acres, almost entirely wooded. It recieves a fair amount of pressure, almost heavy at times and in certain places. I don't hunt here very often though.

What I look for in a spot is typically a terrain funnel. Travel routes. If those travel routes hold some food, all the better. For instance, I hunt an inside corner that is traveled quite a bit, and there are white oaks and persimmons in that corner. Always a producer, of does. I really like to hunt creek bottoms as well. Good, thick cover down there, and sometimes the creek itself makes a good funnel. I also hunt quite a few oak ridges as well.

RE: Why is this?
 

I hate to say this but... you should be hunting the 4000 acres more. There is a good reason why Gmmat doesn't see many bucks till Nov. nor you for that matter. They just probablyaren't thereor just a fewin that small of acreage duringthe early part of your season!!! The does are there but the bucks could very well be hanging out of the neighbor's land. The does bring them in during rut and why you see more bucks at this time.

We search out our buck spots. I cover a lot of ground to do it. In say 5,000 acres we might find good numbers of bucks in6 certainareas with them ranging ( bedding area to feeding area ) of 80 -200 acres. They are using 1200 acres at mostout of that 5,000 acres. Granted you might see a few bucksanywheres in that 5,000 acres but the bulk of them are not using it. It generally has to do with big bedding areas per area. The does are all over as that is their nature with fawning to the point where they start grouping up more late fall/early winter or frompressure.

Tim

RE: Why is this?
 

Don, I'm not entirely sure of how your setups have gone lately as I haven't been able to be online much. When I started bowhunting I'd always set up in locations to see as many deer as I could, generally speaking this is where I'd be most likely to see does. As I learned more and more (specifically in early season) I've started hunting areas that may be more secluded where deer feel less vulnerable. I've found that many times bucks tend to hang out there just for security seasons. As we all know, I haven't killed any monsters, but (as buckeye continually reminds me :D)my buddieshaveproduced a LOT of inches from stand locations that I've put up with this in mind.