Is this /fair chase?
 

Ok people say hunting over bait is'nt fair or "ethical"what about scouting with cameras?To me I don't think that this is fair chase and it makes things far to easy,cause if you put out cameras and don't see good bucks there you are probably not going to hunt there! Sorry maybe unethical was the wrong word to use but I don't think it's any different than someone who baits.If baiting is;nt fair chase than neither are game cams.Just my opinion.

RE: Scouting with cameras!
 

You really thnk trail cameras are not fair chase?[&:]

I've used trail cameras for no other reason but to see what's in my honey hole. I was hunting there regardless of what the camera picked up because after hunting there for 28 years and walking the property long before that with my grandfather, I know what can be there. I had pictures of a couple bucks that I never saw. Those cameras did absolutely nothing for me other than take pictures of some nice bucks. They didn't influence where I hunted or how I hunted. They are a tool for scouting and why isn't scouting fair chase?

I really don't know your mindset on this one. [&:]

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

In what you saying you would say binoculars are not fair chase then too cause you can sit from a long ways away and scout an area and if you don't see anything then you won't hunt there. Binoculars help so you don't go tracking the area up....is this your mindset?

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

What Rob is saying is that a trail camara is a "tool" and a "tool" alone isn't capable of making a person become Unethical! Only a person can do something that is "unethical" such as doing an action to cause pain and/or suffering and not doing something to end it. Such as taking a shot that you know you can't make and hitting your target in a non-lethal spot and then not doing anything to correct it. Actually, two things in that example that are unethical, taking a shot you know you shouldn't and then not following up and finishing the first mistake.
The above is just one example of ethics, but I hope it gets my point across. Ethics has to do with an incorrect action/decission taken, not the tool used to take the action.

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

I don't use them. I don't walk on my property after bow season till spring turkey season. Ithen, don't set foot on my property till September to cut my plots. I don't scout at all anymore. From April to September no scent left. I have 3 cameras that I don't use, but my property is a hour away. I don't think they are unethical.

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

I just think it's photographic ingenuity.:D

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

If my camera doesn't get a pic of a "good buck" it won't stop me from hunting that woods. More deer come and go thru my woods that don't walk by my camera than I'll never know.



.

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

I don't understand how you guys get all caught up in the "ethical" debate. Is baiting any different than food plots or hunting in an oak that is dropping? I use camers to judge what is out there and bait them to the camera. A week before season I quit baiting (usually because appples aren't available)The way I look at it, as long as it's legal and within your limits, who am I to judge you. I recently went on a guided hunt and watched some incredible animals taken with what I feel was un-ethical means. Guys were flinging arrows way past their limits. Had one world class mulie that was shot in the rear end, I mean entrance hole 4" down and 2"right of the Hole shot!!! Another gut shot and never recovered a 190"+ mulie, another gut shot and recovered, another flung 3 arrows at the same deer...... That to me is unethical, taking shots beyond what you know you can make. I think we need to look at the whole picture instead of what we deem as "ethical", who are we to judge when it is legal. On a recent post, a guy was ridiculed for shooting a deer under a feeder..... if it's legal, who are we to judge? When I lived in northern MI, Leelanau county had deer population counts at 1 deer per square mile, how do you approach hunting like that? There are areas of my state with extremely low deer populations, so some guys bait, good for them. I see guys on here that are quick to judge but may hunt in ways that some feel unethical. I no longer rifle hunt because I like to get closer, would I judge someone for rifle hunting? Never. We, as hunters, need to stick together and quit judging each other based on our own beliefs. How about that new CVA muzzleloader that uses electric instead of primers? Can I call you unethical for using one, it's my belief but I wouldn't. Some guys think that 50,000 acres high fence is unethical/ fair chase but have no problem hunting the only 150 acres for 5 miles. Sorry for the tirade but had to vent a little...

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

its all up to you to decide but a camera is fine to use its not making anything unfair. thats just doing extra resarch. but using bait is different than cameras. food is something that the animals need to survive and people using stuff like deer co-caine is wrong only becuz that to me is cheating and its highly addictive. using salt-licks isnt as bad to me. but adictive stuff or stuff they need to survive is sort of unfair unless its a life or death situation to me.

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

chilers - deer cane is just a mineral supplement. Deer in my area only use it in the spring. I don't know about highly addictive, they hit it in the spring and summer but don't touch it during hunting season, at least not in my area. So in your mind a food plot is unethical? They need food to survive right?

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

I don't see whats unethical about trail camera's. It lets you know whats happening in your area. For istance I have had mine out for a week and have 9 diffrent bucks from small fork's to nice 150 class ten points all using my area (atleast 3 are easy P&Y). I wouldn't have known those bucks were there. If it hadn't been for my camera. It is just a tool, it all comes down to "YOU" taking advantage of the knowledge you have gathered. I get just as excited when I pull the card and there has been events on my camera, as, I do when deer walk by my blind.
So how do you feel about food plots then? If cameras are bad then food plots must be the antichrist.

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

"Easy"???? You've never used a trail camera have you? It's tough getting a single image of a buck you are chasing, let alone making it not fair chase. Whatchu been smokin' willis?

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

LOL, obviously you have NO CLUE! :(

I'll challenge you to prove us all how "easy" it really is. I know the fact that nearly ALL the mature buck photos you'll collect are under the cover of darkness.... yes sir, that sure makes it easy to kill one.... LOL! You can't be serious! [&:]

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

I'll be the first to open the bag of popcorn on this one...

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

Dont scout. Just show up and wack and stack... Gota love Illinois;)

I read on hear somewere that there are other states like that in the mid west... I think I recall Iowa and Kansas being mentioned[:o]

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

i'll add one more log into the fire. I dont see baiting as unethical - no different than sitting over an oak tree dropping acorns. lets face it, we're predators. we kill, thats just nature and the way it is. As long as the animal comes to the bait on its own will (and has ample natural foods to chose from as well),and its legal in your state, I say who cares.

No different than sitting over a watering hole in the heat.

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

It blows me away how many uf you suckers keep getting drawn in to the "ETHICAL DEBATE" ......[:'(]

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

Exactly Tony - it seems like more and more, guys want someone to tell them that it's alright to hunt the way they want. As long as it's legal what is there to debate? Who are we to judge ethical?

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

It is a tool used to help you with your ultimate goal.

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

Come on now - maybe trail cams aren't your cup of tea - but unethical - give me a break.

The way I see it cams only give you an idea of what might be in your area - and they are darned fun. It helps get more hunters involved in the offseason and generates more interaction for young huinters starting out.

The "ethical debate" on this site ALWAYS gets out of hand every year. At some point I usually stop reading the posts.

FH

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

u are ridiculous if u think it is unethical for someone to use a trail cam, what a joke, because no hunter would ever say such a thing

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

If I don't do it then it must be unethical.. Seems to be an overused sentiment. I have permission to hunt an apple orchard which will be loaded with apples. Besides the wind falls under the trees the farmer piles them up by the ton mixed in with the mash left from making sweet cider.
But... I guess it would not be right to sit in thatfine stand I have set up in the funnel leading in... Looks like a cattle trail and it would have been my first year on the property..

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

I have 2 cudde backs and if any thing they make me hunt harder. I love using them its alot of fun to hide them in the woods and see what for pictures you got. It also helps a person like me who has a problem passing on little buck when I know I got bigger ones around. Its just scouting made easy! No different than me sitting in my stand everyday and watching. With the lifestyles now a days this is just a work of genious!!!

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

game cams are a blast and allow me to get to know my woods better and not just the places that I set them up. Anytime you can be out there your odds are improving..

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

so if cameras are unethical, u think guns are unethical too, what about bows, should we be hunting with rocks?

RE: Scouting with cameras!
 

To rob/pa bowyer who said anything about binoculars?at least you have to be physically there to use them for scouting.and my point is exactly what you said about your honey hole,quote(i just want to know whats there)get out there yourself and take the pics,Iknow you won't cause you'd mess up the spot.so stop trying to make this something entirely different and make me look like a bad guy.Iwas just stating my opinion!

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

I agree 100 percent that is the point I was trying to get across to everyone!

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

So is hunting agricultural fields fair chase? Show me a field of corn or soy beans growing indigenously in the wild you're hunting.....and I'll retract the question.

Otherwise....it's just a big "food plot". A food plot's just a big "bait pile".

Careful ye whocast stones.

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

I use my camera for extra motivation and story telling!

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

How are cams not fair chase??? All they do is take pics and hopefully you can be in the right place at the right time...they dont the behavior of the deer they just let you know whats in that area. Nothing wrong with cams one bit.

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

After looking at many trail cam pictures on this site I bet 90% of them are after dark so unless you are going to be hunting around midnight for these nocturnal brutes how are the trailcams gonna help you. I realize that during the rut the bucks routine changes but the chances of you being in the right place at the right time are far to none. But as far as bait piles go the does are going to come to the baitpile everyday and if the does come guess what will follow. Bait piles are not just unethical they are about like hunting in a high fence preserve. IMO

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

I'm an UNETHICAL, UNFAIR, Trail Camera Using Freak from the U.P and Proud of It.!

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

You got the freak part right anyway!lmao

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

I could only wish it was like that!

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

And I thought the original post was stupid...

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

Well if a game camera breaks the fair chase rule then so does:
1. a stand
2. a weapon
3. camo
4. removing your scent in anyway
5. anything else beyond what an animal uses
You want to fair chase then get out there like the coyote, lion, or bear and do it with your bare hands (no rock). As has been stated above...you hunt an oak tree, apple tree, water hole, game trail, choke point or anything else that is going to draw an animal into a spot and it is the same as baiting. If it is legal than by all means do it if you want to and don't if you don't agree with it. Using a trail camera doesn't mean that the animal of my dreams is going to come back when I'm there or present the killer shot. It is all by chance. Watch any animal show and they will show you how they use what they have and know to increase their odds at eating that day. They hunt in packs, seek out the weak or wounded, stake out food sources and water holes and even send out scouts (like our game cams :D).

We did several classes at our church on ethics. We covered all sort of ethical areas from medical to sexual to war and peace. I did the class on war and peace and most of the people are for peace. But mention WWII and the situation then and how the nation responded and war wasn't so bad (older crowd). It was nothing to loose thousands of men to take a hill or island and they went on to the next one. Because they agreed it was a good cause. Move to today and we freak out that over 3,000 men and women have lost their lives in Iraq and Afganistan. Times change and so do our ideas of what is right and wrong.

Hunt the way you feel comfortable with and don't look down on those who have a different (legal) way of doing it.

My 2 cents worth
Reid

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

Exactly so I will now drop this and hunt out of my stand over my bait!

RE: Is this ethical/fair chase?
 

Drizzu:

I'm intrigued to learn your definition of "fair chase"; What does NOT belong in "fair chase".....and what is acceptable to you.

Serious question. I'd just like to know.

There are no wrong answers......it's only opinion.