In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

This was my first year hunting (bow/gun/sharpened stick) and I followed the example of the people around me. I live and hunt in Texas where hunting feeders (baiting) is legal on private property, and as best I can tell, is the way 75% plus of hunters take deer.

It was a big charge, but I have heard and seen a number of posts denegrating the practice. I didn't feel any more unethical than when putting a worm on the hook fishing, but think I want try other methods next season for more challenge. The biggest problem is that rifle season starts just a little before rut in most of Texas and the deer get careful after the bullets start flying.

I am interested in hearing the opinions of folks who have given the matter serious thought. Please, no spewing of pejoratives. I do not have the patience to sift through them to find the salient point.

Thanks in advance for the points of view.

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

If you feel that it is ethical and if it is legal, do it. Because of differences in deer densities, rut times, terrain, et cetera, I don't like to judge others way of hunting, as long as it is legal and you feel right doing it. That said, sometimes trying new ways and tactics helps you become an all around better hunter and gives a great deal of satisfaction.

"We do not inherit our wildlife from our fathers, we only borrow it from our children."

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

Bowtex,
I live in Lubbock. Most of the farms and ranches around here are dry land crops. They depend on the rain if it comes and if it doesnt drop 12 inches all at once.
I have seen cattle fight over hay. I hear people say " There are lot of deer this year, I see them all the time on the road." Yes they are seeing them there but its becouse they can get to the grass on the other side of the fence that the cattle cant get to.
I can plant a food plot and fence it but if the cattle need to eat the land owner is going to open the fence.
I feel that using feeders is a reasonable way to help deer with feed. I do not see the cows coming into the feeder pen and usually the owner will leave these alone.
Do I hunt over a feeder? No, I hunt between these and a beding area or between it and a water area.
Do I feel it is wrong to use a feeder? No, I dont think it is any worse than planting or hunting on a food plot or a grain field. We dont have the H2O that some of these states get to grow our food plots. The water is deep and the elect. to get it out is $$ so the farmer/rancher does not irrigate crops.
So I can put down seed and hope that it will get rain to come up or set out a few feeders to help with a feeding program for the deer and to help keep them coming to the plot as it and if it grows.
So the question to me is if Baiting is useing a feeder or planting or hunting over a food plot. To me they all could be called baiting.
Your welcome.
Rick

Lifes not about knowing the answers, its about asking the questions.

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

I won't...Don't have to

If that's what you do, fine. It's not for me to find fault w/you. This again is a personal choice. LOL:)

"Semper Fi"

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

Like Who said, feeder or food plot...what's the difference? As long as it's legal.

FOOLPROOF?
Never underestimate the power of a fool!

What if the "Hokey Pokey" really is what it's all about?

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

Thundermug stole my thunder, LOL I agree with him 100% on this matter. Food is food whether you plant it or set it out for the deer.

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

The thing I dislike about baiting is that it conditions the animals to come to the diner table. If the food is all nice and piled up every day in the same place and easy to find.... the deer sleep in. They don't have to forage and wander for food like they do if the bait piles weren't there. SO, they sleep in later and arrive at the feed at dark or just after dark, gorge themselves and take a nap. I think the smart old deer will hang back and not come until dark. For those who say its like a food plot.... well... Not exactly. It's a little tougher deciding which trail a deer is going to take to enter a field than it is to hunt over a feeder. It's a little tougher to decide WHICH field a deer is going to. You know deer will be at the feeder.

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

Up to the person,If it is legal in your state OK ,if it is Ok with you.I lived in South Texas and hunted there. It is almost impossible to walk thru that brush and not get stuck with hundreds of needles and cactus.Not to mention the snakes. Dave I feed the deer in my yard after the season closes to keep them from stripping my lawn and starving in a bad winter..Your right they come and go under darkness most the time

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

I feed them at home to. I have no problem with baiting if it's legal... I just feel it cuts down on deer movement which lessens chances of seeing the BIG ONE.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> You either see the whole HERD or nothing because they're at someone elses feeder.

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

I agree with what davidmil said. another reason i don't like to bait is IMO, it takes the challenge out of the hunt.

anybody can go sit by a corn pile and shoot a deer. because you know he's comin sooner or later.

I like the challenge of findin the trails-rublines-scrapes- all the essential sign it takes to make your plan come together. but even after findin all the sign, you then have to figure out where to set your stand to get the shot. all this, as opposed to climbing in a stand over a corn pile, or somethin that's been planted.

that said, I don't have anything against the hunter that chooses to hunt over bait. as I've always beleived- it should be the hunters choice, includin the weapon of his choice<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

daytona 500 winner- Ward Burton
go Cat-22

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

I would be the LAST person to say that dreaded phrase...&quot;if it's legal then it's ok&quot;...I hate that statement. What a cop-out. However, in this case baiting doesn't necessarily bother me. I personally think in my area it is a detriment to productive daylight hunting as davidmil pointed out. Studies have even shown that deer, especially mature bucks, become nocturnal when baited. They have no need to forage for food and hit browse lines and edge areas etc. They just hop out of bed, go to the bait site, pig out, then head back out and bed down again. I used to have a feeder that I kept stocked religiously and NEVER saw a mature buck in daylight hours. I saw gobs of squirrels, coons, oppossum, skunks, and birds with an ocassional doe with fawns mixed in there. I've never hunted Texas and think conditions down there may differ but that is just an assumption.

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

Just for the record, some of us do not sit on top of a bait area. I do alot of scouting and find where I want to hunt but their are several things that we must take into consideration here,
1. Land. Usually the lease you have is shaired with several people. If you go walking around you are going to mess up someone elses hunt or cause a unsafe condition. This is one reason that we are not allowed to get out of our hunting area till 11am.
2. Food. Usually there is one big or small field that is planted for the cattle. To save problems here we are not to hunt these we must find some where else to spread out the hunting area. We must make a food plot of some size and or a feeder. Some hunt over these but again I dont.
3. Water. Here this is also a very important draw for the deer. Several months of no or little rain and 100+ temps tend to make cattle tanks into mud holes. For those of you who have streams or rivers consider yourselves lucky. We dont. Some lakes around here are close to being dry. Farmers pump for the crops they have and towns and citys fight for water rights and there is just so much to go around.
4. Trees. LOL Unless you know what a mesquite tree is you wont know what I am <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> about. We have some large trees and sometimes mesquite get big but for the most part I would love to see one of you to put one of your tree climers on them. Most you cant even hang a deer in. Now they bush out and get tall but the branches are usually very thin. So this is the reason for box, ground or tripod type blinds.
5. Deer. Again I am describing the area I am in. We have some big deer here but not like alot of you describe. I would love to pick and choose but you do not get that chance too often here. This year I saw 3 bucks and took one. The other 3 guys on this lease did not get any. We have a 2 week doe season for white tails but no mule deer doe hunting. I can take one MD and one WT buck but havent seen a WT buck on the place. Our MD season is very short. Starting to see things a little different here?

We as hunters can look at these little things and point fingers at our brother hunters and some times we should but you know there is a larger picture here. We should be looking at and doing somthing about it every day. There are groups of people out there who want to take this right away from us and unless we stop them we will be scratching our collective a$$es and saying &quot;do you remember when we were able to hunt!&quot; or &quot;I use to have a gun or bow!&quot; Now this is somthing to fight for.

We all live in different enviroments with different extreems. Our hunting adapts to the hunting we have or dont have. If a person lives in a area with lots of deer with big open forest and lots of food for the deer to eat thats great but some other parts of this country dont have it.
So next time you are up in one of your many trees looking at that great buck or bucks or Elk or bear or......... stop and give thanks, before you take the shot, for what you have and for the privilege we have in being able to hunt.
Take care my friends,
Rick

Lifes not about knowing the answers, its about asking the questions.

Edited by - Who on 01/07/2003 09:39:29

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

I have never once seen a big buck at a feeder. Lots of does, yearlings and 2-3 year old bucks, but the big boys don't come in. So if you want challenge, go after those guys.

Problem here is that Texas Parks and Wildlife consider bowhunting to be part of their overall game management program now, and our deer herd is overpopulated. TPWD is constantly after bowhunters to take more deer, especially in drought conditions. They don't want the bucks stressed out to the point of an early antler drop, which would tick off the gun hunters. They tried to stick in a youth rifle hunt on each weekend of our bow season last year to take more early season deer, but only did the last weekend.

It's not challenge or even fair chase that's important to them. It's numbers. So, since feeders put hunters in range of deer that's what we do.

By the way, in Texas we're not talking about a pile of corn. We're talking automatic feeders that dispense feed at particular times. Some on a timer, some on photo cells that work off sunlight. The deer know exactly when those feeders are going to go off and they hang around in the brush waiting for the pan to drop. They have to be there to get their share and they don't lay around being lazy, waiting to go get some feed at their leisure. It's like women at the mall on the day after Christmas, waiting for security to unlock the doors.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

Krisken,
Its hard to explain unless you see the conditions. Some places here are better than others. If the water level is high then the cost of pumping and useing a well is cheeper, but if its deep.....$$$$.
There are two wells on this property but for that reason they are not used.
I would love to plant but this past year the area did not get any rain to speak of till Oct. and then it was hit with about 10 to 12 inches or more. I could not get most of the time to hunt till about mid november. Sounds like everything should be nice and green doesnt it? Well with that amount most of the seed was washed away. Where the wheat was drilled is a little higher and it came up in spots. Right now the farmer is feeding cotton hulls to his cows. Its a cheep filler type of food.
I was out last week and the tanks are already getting low. The big one is ok but the smaller ones do not hold for long.
So again I can plant and hope that the rain will be kind and it will grow to be a nice plot, BUT, if it does the chances are that the farmer will put his cows on it. Can I do anything about it? I can say all I want but its his land and what grows on it is his to use as he wants.
Makes you think twice about how lucky you are to have a nice area doesnt it!
Prices for good leases here have about doubled from last year. Why? Texas Parks and Wildlife!!! Thats the bottom line. They are telling farmers and ranchers that they should be getting about a thousand a gun for hunting rights. Last year the average lease within 3 hrs of here was about 650 to 800 a gun depending on the amount of land ect...
This year its about 1000 to 1700 per gun. Next year who knows? I may be buying a cow and shooting it with my bow. It probably will be cheeper and I would be getting alot more for my money.<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
Land prices arnt any better. What I have seen is about 500/acre for unimproved ranch land with nothing on it. I dont know about you but that is very high for me unless I win the loto or somthing.

I have painted a gloomy picture here. This is where I hunt. There are better areas for $$$ prices and you have to go alot more miles.
When I read post of others getting 5 or more deer and what ever else I really wish I had a area like that. It would be great. However when I read post where someone who has places to hunt like those and comes in and tells everyone how bad it is to use a feeder I cant help but to get just a little bent. Not much just a little.
So I hope these post help shed some light on the other side of the coin. Any time you want to trade hunting spots let me know but no trading back.
Take care of what you have and good hunting.
Rick


Lifes not about knowing the answers, its about asking the questions.

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

I also hunt in Texas, and do not hunt a feeder, but I do bait in a way. I watch where the deer are feeding, naturally, and put down small 8&quot; piles of corn, or some other attractant not unlike using scent tactics on their travel corridors just to get them a little bit closer to me. I don't condition them, but simply offer a little snack. It seems to work great for me, and it is not so much like shooting fish out of a barrel, because of the patterning, and scouting necessary to find these corridors to begin with.

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

As has already been mentioned, it is your choice and how you feel about it. I hunt in Texas and while I have hunted feeders on occassion in the past, I personally no longer hunt feeders, just as I no longer hunt with a rifle. Not that I am against it, but for me it takes away from the hunt. However, while I do not hunt them,I do have a few feeders scattered about in peripheral areas. Whether perception or reality I do not know, but since all of my neighbors have feeders, I feel like I need them in order to draw/keep the deer on my property.

But I also have wheat in fall/winter and peanuts or sudan in the summer (assuming we have rain as mentioned) and can tell you that when given a choice deer prefer food plots over dry corn. If you hunt feeders in an area that has ample food plots available, you will likely be disappointed.

I concur with several of the other posts in that you are not likely to get a mature buck to visit a feeder during shooting hours. It has also been my experience that dominant and mature does also shy away from feeders during daylight hours, even when their offspring are feeding under them.

Interesting comments about the possible effects baiting has on deer's nocturnal habits. If the argument is that any introduced food source that is in ample supply, whether it be corn bait or food plot, causes the deer to be more nocturnal, I can buy into that. But to differentiate between a corn feeder and a field of wheat as far as its effect on nocturnal habits, I'm still scratching my head.

The same argument would hold true in that the deer know where an ample supply of food awaits them and they do not have too work hard to get their fill. Granted, there is a lot more peripheal area to a food plot compared to a feeder, making the hunt more difficult, but as far as suggesting that deer will start moving earlier in the afternoon when comparing food plots to corn bait, well.......???

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

Thundermug stole my thunder as did 5 shot. I am with them. there is just no difference at all. Good luck

Brian

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

Bow,
I think you mistitled your post. I for one have had a good time posting and reading on this.
Cods,
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> However, while I do not hunt them,I do have a few feeders scattered about in peripheral areas. Whether perception or reality I do not know, but since all of my neighbors have feeders, I feel like I need them in order to draw/keep the deer on my property. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle> If the deer in your area are coming to your food plots why do you think that the feeders will make a difference in keeping them there? I feed corn and High protein in mine but the deer do not seem to like the protein. My corn is gone but not the other.
I also feel that the corn does help as a food during stress times.
Thanks for the thoughts,
Rick

Lifes not about knowing the answers, its about asking the questions.

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

The way I see it...If all you want is to kill a deer set up over the feeder..If you want to hunt the deer then don't set up over the feeder.....Mr-Pirk

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN OF FEEDERS IN TX ND FL THERE IS A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OFCORN THAT COMES OUT TWICE DAILY. IT IS JUST A TASTY SNACK FOR THE DEER AND OTHER CRITTERS THEY HAVE TO FORAGE FOR THE BULK OF THEIR FOOD INTAKE. I DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEM WITH IT,

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

Who,
That is why I included the phrase &quot;perception or reality&quot;. Reality is that it is probably not necessary, but the perception is that since everyone else has corn out, I better have some out as well just to be safe. I also keep them out for the turkey and quail.

Having said that, how about this for stirring the pot.
After reflecting back on this subject and looking at my own situation for the past 14 years in which I have hunted the same property, there is no question that my best years, both in quantity and quality of deer, have been in years such as this one when we had favorable rainfall and good Fall food plots.
I hunted 9 different stands this year but because of the large amounts of deer the food plots attracted, it didn't matter where I hunted, I saw lots of deer. I only got skunked 3 times out of over 40 outings. I never hunted the actual food plots; the closest stand would be around 200 yards away and some of them as much as 1 mile away.

In contrast, last year was a very dry summer/fall and therefore the winter wheat crop was very dismal. It would stand to reason in these type years that the corn feeders would be more important. But overall, I actually saw fewer deer and got skunked more often compared to this year. I contribute this to everyone having corn and thus my area was no better or worse than the rest of their territory.

Thus, based on these observations and just to play devil's advocate, one could argue that where corn feeders are the norm rather than the exception, it is food plots that make the hunting less challenging by concentrating a large population of deer in a small area that, if hunted enough, will increase your odds dramatically as compared to an area without food plots. Either that or it is as davidmil said, we trained them to sleep in during the dry years.

RE: In the interest of stirring up lots of trouble
 

Thanks for the great posts. They were exactly the tone and depth I was hoping for.

They brought up two questions for me -

1. How do you hunt mature bucks pre-rut?
2. Is there any truth to the idea that if your neighbors have feeders out that the deer will move to their property unless you put them out as well?