RE: ethical shots
 

I would personally not take a 60 yard shot on a deer or any other animal. Would probably be able to make it on a 3D target. Last year I shot a doe at 35 yards. Within that distance/time it took my arrow to reach her she did a little over a 180 turn and I ended up shooting her in the butt, was sick as I watched her walk off with my arrow in her butt. She only went about 35-40 yards out of sight and expired. Way too much can happen within the distance/time of a 60 yard shot that cannot be controlled.

RE: ethical shots
 

Nuge4 President!!!!!!!!

RE: ethical shots
 

Finding a ethical hunter is like finding ahonest politicanI'm sure there are a few honest politicians in the world;) I would bet my life that 90% of the people on this forum would take a 60 yard shot at a B/C buck if that was the only shot they had and they really felt that that was the last time they were going to see that deer;)

When hunters start talking ethics I just wisper under my breath "yea right"

RE: ethical shots
 

I am not quite sure what you are saying Valor10. Do you think the blood trail would be any less on a clean pass through at long distance than it would be up close. On my three long kills the longest blood trail was 75 yards and the shortest was 35 yards. Obviously, I recovered all three of them.

RE: ethical shots
 

It will be if the deer takes a step and you put one threw the pounch... Oh What a minute... I'm sorry... Your the guy that was chasing the 3-D circite... That wouldn't happen to you... My Bad

RE: ethical shots
 

I am going to get murdered for saying this, but this is the deal. Out west people shoot long long distances its part of the game. I have personally killed a mule deer at 72 yards with my bow. I have seen others such as Scott Haugen and Jim Horn take out a deers/elks/proghorns heart at 90 plusyards. If you are comfortable with the shot than take it. If not don't. I practiced and practiced for about 8 solid months of nothing but shots over 60 yards. I felt that the 72 shot was something I could make and I did. Double lung went 80 yards and was dead. Its all about your personal limits.... Some people can't take shots over 25 yards some 35. While others can take it to 90 plus.

Say what you want, and I expect to get **** for this but the deal is a lot of eastern hunters don't realize that out west there is a lot of open country. You are not hunting the hard woods where 20 yards is the most you will ever take because of the density of the woods.

Just my two cents.

Good hunting!

RE: ethical shots
 

Well, I've had clean pass throughs on 30 yard shots, and not found a drop of blood on the ground for another 30 yards. Being able to see the deer a ways after the shot has helped me pinpoint the blood trail. If I took a 60 yard shot, and it got 30 yards before blood hit the ground, that's 90 yards. I'm lucky to see 50 yards in the woods I hunt. That's possibly 40 yards that deer is running and I have no idea what direction. Finding that blood trail might be tough.

RE: ethical shots
 

Question: What would be the difference in flight time between some guy shooting a heavy arrow from a selfbow at 150 fps at 30 yards vs a guy with a hot rod compound shooting 300 fps at 60 yards?

Answer: So close to being exactly the same as to make no difference.

In this situation, both of these hunters are taking exactly the same amount of risk that the deer might move before the arrow gets there. If the 30 yard shot is an ethical risk, then the 60 yard shot must also be ethical.

The remaining factors are accuracy, penetrating power and the conditions of the shot. If you can't shoot well enough to KNOW you can hit that 60 yard shot, it's not ethical. If know your arrow doesn't retain enough downrange energy to get the job done at 60 yards, it's an unethical shot. If you aren't reasonably certain you are capable of making the shot under the conditions present at that exact moment, if there is any doubt whatsoever, it's an unethical shot.

Whether or not a shot is ethical always boils down to the exact conditions at that exact moment.

RE: ethical shots
 

i'll say that i am joking before i make my statement, if you can only see 50 yards why are you taking a 60 yard shot.;)

RE: ethical shots
 

I would say that's an excellant point.

RE: ethical shots
 

I felt good about my 5 yard head shot...I say... If it feels good do it:D

RE: ethical shots
 

RE: ethical shots
 

You mean the Fred Bear who took shots at running mule deer with a bow???

If anyone has The TRUTH 4 Bowhunting... make sure you watch the Bonus Feature Classic Fred Bear hunt. Yes, it is pretty cool.... but I was sort of suprised.

Lets not forget that one half of "Pope and Young" who touted his shooting of african game at well over 100 yards with a longbow......

Lets be frank here... what we as hunters deam "unethical" today was often common practice in the past. Anyone ever seen a punt gun??? That was standard practice in the late 1800s and early 1900s. My grandfather remembered hearing them boom in the Chesepeake as late as the second World War. There was the use of live decoys (Judas ducks) and shackled ducks. Baiting... not only effective, but corn sacks were handy to carry out the dozens of ducks you shot.

I'm rambling, but the point here is that we are a much more PC, ethically, morally (or so we think) society today than we were just 30 years ago.

Ethics by their nature are not laws. They are a set of personal standards. Essentially they are intagible.... a group of beliefs and practices. You cannot put a lable on it, or set it in stone.

RE: ethical shots
 

I'm inclined to agree with you on that Longbeard.

How many stories have you heard about peolpe who shoot turkeys with 12ga shotguns at 80 yards? I've heard plenty... but you don't hear about the ones they cripple up....

RE: ethical shots
 

We also mustn't forget the elk Howard Hill wrote about (Hunting the Hard Way) taking at 185 yards up a mountainside with his longbow back in the 30's.

Or the hunting methods used, species hunted and shots taken by Will and Maurice Thompson after the Civil War (The Witchery of Archery).

We also must not impose our modern day views of ethics on these men. Even though what they did way back when is often unacceptable to us, or even illegal now, it was the foundation on which bowhunting has been built.

RE: ethical shots
 

I'm not getting that statement. Are you saying it is unethical for anyone to take a shot on running deer?

RE: ethical shots
 

Who ever posted the deal about Fred Bear would be rolling in his grave has no idea what he is talking about!!!

In a reprint interview with old Fred he admits his farthest shot was 112 yards at a moose.... 112 yards!!!! I am sure he is rolling over in his grave. Really I don't think he would care one bit.

Everyone goes into the woods for his own reasons... Some it is getting close some it is to test the equipment and take far shots with his bow.... It doesn't matter the reason, we are all on the same team.

RE: ethical shots
 

I think there are people that have in the past, I would not take the chance.....

RE: ethical shots
 

The thought wouldn't even cross my mind! I am dead serious!

RE: ethical shots
 

Very well put Arthur!
For me the wild card continues to be the movement of the animal not the shooting ability of the archer.
The gentleman who made the 72 yard shot on the mule deer is being honest and I respect that! A mule deer is considerably larger than a whitetail.Are they as high strung and fidgety?

RE: ethical shots
 

Mr. Longbeard. You are rapidly becoming my favorite repsondent. However, this will be my last post regarding this thread. Your statement about the deer taking a step which could cause a paunch shot and poor tracking situation is valid. However, maybe I am just lucky but none of the deer on the three long shot kills I took even flinched until the arrow hit them. I have had deer and elk hunch up, drop down, flinch, and jump in preparation to run at the sound of the bow going off but mostly at close ranges. So, I believe the possibility of an animal making an adverse movement when a bow is shot, always exists. On these three long shots,I think there is a possibliity that the bow noise was reduced due to the proximity, or lack thereof, of the shot and therefore was not such a startling noise to the deer. And yes, I was shooting a lot of 3-D at the time of these kills as well as FITA's where you shoot 6 arrows at a time form 90, 70, 50 and 30 meters. I believe I was prepared for the shots I made. And, if you read the rest of my posting, you would also see that I would not take the same shots today due to older age, less practice, and slight deterioriation of skill. You seem to dislike anyone who shoots 3-D's or has any success hunting. I hope you can find something in this posting to make you happy.

RE: ethical shots
 

It would be unethical for me to do it.

But if Fred Bear honest to the Lord believed in his heart he was good enough to make the shot... then is it really unethical?

Moreover, he certainly would not be rolling in his grave as we talk about shots at a mere 60 yards with equipment even more advanced than what he helped bring about; espeically when he was shooting moose at 112 yards. I'm not entirely sure what kind of shot Fred Bear was. I'm sure he was good, but probably not Howard Hill good. He was more of a businessman and showman. A marketing genius for sure, and a very good man.

But rolling in his grave over 60 yard shots.... I think not....I suspect that to him, a 60 yard shot would be about like me shooting a Scottish pair on the Skeet Field in front of Tom Knapp.

RE: ethical shots
 

SwampCollie, my post did not just pertain to Fred Bear, please read:

My point is that there are individuals out there today that could ethically make the shot with a bow. Personally, I woundn't hesitate to take a shot at deer moving at an even pace (but not running) within a comfortable distance.

RE: ethical shots
 

The word ethical is a strong word. In my book ethics deal with hunting within the laws that govern your state. I have friends of mine who can shoot very effectively from outside 60 yards. Too each his own.

RE: ethical shots
 

I wasn't talking about the deer jumping your string... I was saying that NOBODY can perdict when a deer is going to take a step... So at the very moment you realease that arrow the deer takes a step... You could very well hit the deer in the non vital area AKA the pounch AKA the gut shot;)So no matter how many 3-D circuits you chased or FITA's you shot in... It still does not mean that you are incapable of putting a bad shot on a deer at those extremely long shooting distances;);)

RE: ethical shots
 

I think the lightbulb just went off.

I think I just learned what the term "irony" means.

RE: ethical shots
 

And that 5 yard head shot?? Hello...

RE: ethical shots
 

My bulb must be bad. What do you mean?;)

RE: ethical shots
 

NON Vital.....lmao, a gut shot deer is a very very dead deer!

RE: ethical shots
 

Exactly and everyone is assuming whitetail sized animals right? I practiced out to 70 yards prior to my elk hunt, would I have taken the shot, I don't know I wasn't presented with the shot but I do know I could have made it. I was grouping muzzy's in the 12 ring of a McKenzie elk every time...I was fortunate enough to take my bull at 33 yards. ;)

RE: ethical shots
 

Yup, irony...lmao. BURN!

RE: ethical shots
 

Can I get banned for "thinking" something?

:D

RE: ethical shots
 

I understand completely Bob, andjust for clarification I'll quote what a wrote again at the beginning:


So in a round-about answer to your question: Are you saying it is unethical for anyone to take a shot at a running deer? My answer would have to be no.

I, of course, will take your word as a gentleman when you cite your abilities and given those, if you feel your skill is sufficient to make a shot then by your standards that is not an unethical shot. While it would be considered unethical in my book; your book is your own. I do not possess the ability to take a shot at a running animal with archery tackle, so for me to do so would be considered unethical, if you catch my drift.

Ethics only apply to members of a certain company, organization or club. Now, while we as hunters may include all of us in a band of hunters, or the hunting community, we generally list our code of ethics as either the Laws of the state/county/instalation/clubwhose lands we hunt upon, or by the rules of Pope and Young or Boone and Crockett (more frequently called Fair Chase).

Ethics is such a general term and it is so difficult to grasp and define that the whole point of "Ethical Shots" is almost moot.

RE: ethical shots
 

I'm with ya. :) And I don't think your answer was round about at all. ;)

RE: ethical shots
 

Deer take steps at 20 yards just like they do at 60. Anything that can move possess the ability to time that move just so you are loosing that arrow at the time it is moving. Of course the deer will not have moved as much at 20 as it would at 60 by the time the arrow arrives. But along your lines of thinking Longbeard, just about ANY shot with a bow and arrow would be a bad one... unless of course the deer was tied up with a three foot rope, or otherwise rendered immobile.

RE: ethical shots
 

To bad ol Bill Wadsworth isn't around to coment on this;)

RE: ethical shots
 

Longbeard, you really put an arrow into a deers head? Why? Did you think you'd never see another deer again? Never get another shot? What were you thinking? Were you experimenting?

RE: ethical shots
 

Im just not comfy at that range, no sir [:-]

RE: ethical shots
 

In regards to deer jumping the string, I think the jump reflex is at it's worst when the deer is close. At 70 yards, the sound is far enough away to not cause the same flinch reflex. It is still possible, but not as likely.

RE: ethical shots
 

Do a thread search,justdont get him started.