Arthur P

I don't see anyone trying to browbeat trophy hunters into taking small animals, so I don't see how that applies to both sides of the fence.

GMMAT

And don't think we don't have our owncases of "elitism" right here among our ranks.

That was a good post Arthur.

Germ

The Eliteism part Arthur, but I know you knew that[8D]

bawanajim

And then we have those who insist on throwing their stones straight up.

manuman

I think what you are perceiving as a double standard is more of a reaction from those who are less selective being tired of being made out to be second class citizens, also even a genuine concern for the hunting heritage , as it was originally simply about the joy of hunting, being content with what the field, (without being groomed like a golf course with food plots, feeders, and supplements), yielded naturally, camaraderie, and a chance to escape the rat race in the beauty of the outdoors. Friendly competitions, such as here on HN ,and many of the 'Big Buck' contests, werea matter of recognizing size, weight,antler growth--without being artifically stimulated--taken during the due course of the hunting season, honoring the deer as much as the deer hunter. Everyone would eagerly wait to see what showed up around different parts of teh state.Theyhavebeen replaced with a totally different mindset. The deer are now farmed and land is now over managed into unhealthy ratios, and only will a certain antler size and age class be acceptable.It does not resemble what hunting always was about.If you still simply enjoy hunting and don't get all caught up in the hoopla, you are looked down on as some kind of unskilled and unpatriotic less than a hunter. I react to that mindset, not by throwing stones but by attempting to remind others what hunting has always been about and should still be about--even in context of those who choose to(and rightfully so), and have the time available and are so motivated to pursue only a certain size and age class buck. I like to call myself a purist, meaning I simply want to hunt without all of the new 'management'(not talking about the reasonable and sound QDM principles which are common sense) methods, and when I step into the woods,I want it to look like woods, with as little trace of man and his influence as possible, with the deer herd being as wild and dependent on natural forage as possible. I am lookingfor an older class buck, and take proportionate numbers of does without that buck having to meet someone else's standards. Points normally coincide with age classes, so I have a 6 point or better restriction, but there are even 4 points in my areas that are 3 1/2 years old. I took one that weighed 180, and was 3-4 1/2 years old a couple of year's ago. I think many wouldn't have done so because of his rack, but it isn't any less of an accomplishment to take a 12 point 3-4 1/2 year old than this buck--but it probably is less desirable for many. Granted I can take 2 in Ga, and I also hunt in SC, Al.( I got to SC{100 acres surrounded by dog hunters}once a year--opening weekend--Aug 15 -18th, hunt local in Ga{also 100 acres}, and go t to Al 2-3 times a year{250 acres})so it was an easier choice, since I have more tags than someone in Illinois for example. Plus , this deer was on land with about 8 deer per square mile, so I felt thatI had done well to even take any older class buck. Would I like for him to have been 'bigger'? Yes, but I hope that my choice reflects that I can keep perspective within the 'big picture'. Ithink that some who are so bent on trophy only--which in and of itself isn't a real problem--have lost sight of the 'big picture'--and that is a problem.

peakrut

Some are just plain meat hunters and meat is meat.

gators1422

Some people are going to do what they do. I used to shoot everything here in Fla,and we can shoot as many as we want. But me and a friend of mine were able to buy a good piece of property and made the rule of 100 inches or better(thats big in Fla) we both bring whoever we want and if they shoot anything less they just can't come back, no argument no fuss just hope you enjoyed it. It has worked out real well. One of my friends killed a 107 and almost did not shoot it for fear of it not being big enough. just my 2 cents.

Germ

What exactly is the heritage of hunting? Teddy Rooslevelt who is one of our Icons was a Trophy hunter was he not? It was the sport hunter who saved hunting. Most of those guys were not hunting for food. They were hunting for recreation as I do today. Our "heritage" hunters before that sure did a fine job on the buffalo. Is this the hertiage you speak of?

If heritage means hunting for food than we have some issues there also. Whitetails were about wiped out in our "hertiage" days than

I thought the Heritage hunting startred in the 30's, anything before that had nothing to do with "Heritage ". It had to do with eatingand not starving to death.

Going out and shoot anydeer for some extra venison is great. Hunting so your family can eat is a whole other story. My Grampa lived through the great depression, deer hunting for them had nothing to do with "hertiage". It had to do with not starving to death[] Just think about the pressure we feel today when we shoot a buck(any). Now think about if you had to kill a deer that night so your family can eat. No "Hertiage" there[&:]

I have no idea what land you are talking about. QDM is about having the right number of deer. Now if you are talking TDM(Traditional Deer Management) you have Michigan pegged Not the farm part

I think we all want that, but good luck. Most of the land in lower 48 has been touched by man. Just think there was 1 deer per sq mile in Northen MI before we logged it. At one point it was high as 40 deer per Sq mile. I love to hunt Northen MI because it looks untouched by man, but deer are there because of man.

I or most here do not look down on anyone. Go read some post there are some who do, but most of the "look down on feeling"is from people assuming they were being ragged on. Because someone said "I won't have shot him" So what some guys would have not bought a dodgeI bought. Should I act like a 2 year old when some ask why I did not buy a Chevy Come to think of it Preacher beat me up pretty bad

Sorry I do not buy the protecting the "Hertiage" of hunting argument. I myself have no idea what the "Hertiage" of hunting is[&:]

If it is hunting for food, well there was no honor or fair play there. Do you think a hunter waited until the deer was broadside before they shot?The Indians or early settlers put an arrow or bulletanyway they could. Ran the beast down until it tired out than finshed it off. Ran them over cliffs, back them into corners and stoned them to death.

If we are talking "Hertiage" hunting after Teddy Roosvelt days than Trophy Hunting is a part of hunting "Hertiage"

I ask this question on another thread.

If a hunter has a fork buck in his sights and ready to drop hammer on him, then hehears a twig break and sees a 150'' 10 will he shoot the "better" tasting deer or wait for the old tough meat 150'' 10?

I do agree with a lot of what you say, I just do not buy the hertiage of hunting argument. I would prefer the Teddy Rosvelt era myself. When sportsman fought to protect hunting. So we can hunt for recreation and enjoyment. I amthankful for the choice I have to shoot a big one or little one.

I have read were the "Trophy" guys gets lamb basted, but I guess that is OK. It is all about the hertiage of hunting[8D]

GMMAT

I agree with this:

I'm involved in another bowhunting contest......where the deer are treated a little more "evenly" across the nation. Bucks are scored on "antler points". If you don't think this would raise a stink in this forum contest.....suggest it . I know what we'd hear.

It's not so much about the taking of "deer" as it is "trophy hunting".....and I know a lot of people get turned off by this. It's a fact of what hunting has turned into for many.

SoggyCereal

Here's the way I see it. The deer is in the eye of the beholder. You can't tell people what is a good deer and what isn't, it's all in the opinion of the hunter. So you can't get others to let small bucks go, because that's just like telling someone how to hunt. I mean, if it's your land that's a different story.