OK Guys it's DEBATE time....
07-12-2007, 07:18 AM
#12
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin and Canada
Posts: 2,415
RE: OK Guys it's DEBATE time....
ORIGINAL: ron3775
I hope you can understand my thinking. With the self planted food plot or the white oak stand, you are giving the wildlife the choice of where to browze in it, to where with the corn pile, it has to come to that exact location and thats it.
I hope you can understand my thinking. With the self planted food plot or the white oak stand, you are giving the wildlife the choice of where to browze in it, to where with the corn pile, it has to come to that exact location and thats it.
There's a big difference huntingfood sourcethis size......O
than this size......O
Though I may not agree with baiting, as longs as its legal and floats your boat, have at it.
07-12-2007, 07:22 AM
#13
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: OK Guys it's DEBATE time....
ORIGINAL: SwampCollie
"Baiting" is illegal.
Hunting over "supplemental food sources", is not.
Thats the difference.
"Baiting" is illegal.
Hunting over "supplemental food sources", is not.
Thats the difference.
07-12-2007, 07:22 AM
#14
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin and Canada
Posts: 2,415
RE: OK Guys it's DEBATE time....
ORIGINAL: Germ
gutshot
Have you ever seen a deer "work" its way in to a bait pile? If not that is the big differnce IMO. A deer will be way more relaxed in a big plot or oak flat.
Another differnce is how people hunt with each of them. Baiting you are trying to bring the deer to you, so you can "kill" them.Oak flat you are looking for an entry point you think the deer will use. Food Plot can be a liitle of both. Trying to bring the deer to you or looking for a choke point to catch them coming into the plot.
The last issue it what it does to the management of the deer herd. Back in the 50's, 60's,70, and early 80's baiting was not allowed in MI. Since it has become legal it has ruined the deer herd in the UP, and raised a generation of hunters who can not hunt without it. There is a saying in the UP "every two track road will lead to a bait pile" and it is so true. Baiting is very effective at killing 1.5 bucks. Where if you spend +1000.00 on a plot I doubt your going to kill the first thing that walks in. A bait pile that cost 2.50 of apples and corn you are going to shoot the first deer in the pile.
Baiting to me is a huge issue and one that needs to be addressed here in MI for these reason.
1. Extremely bad for age structure with your bucks
2. Tends to spread disease
3. Some here in MI have lost the ability to truely hunt whitetails. Plain and simply they do not know how anymore unless they have a bucket of corn.
The UP in MI used to be the place to hunt, and IMO baiting has really hurt the UP. Food plots or oak flats can not and will not ever do that to a deer herd, and thatis what I see as the big differnce.
gutshot
Have you ever seen a deer "work" its way in to a bait pile? If not that is the big differnce IMO. A deer will be way more relaxed in a big plot or oak flat.
Another differnce is how people hunt with each of them. Baiting you are trying to bring the deer to you, so you can "kill" them.Oak flat you are looking for an entry point you think the deer will use. Food Plot can be a liitle of both. Trying to bring the deer to you or looking for a choke point to catch them coming into the plot.
The last issue it what it does to the management of the deer herd. Back in the 50's, 60's,70, and early 80's baiting was not allowed in MI. Since it has become legal it has ruined the deer herd in the UP, and raised a generation of hunters who can not hunt without it. There is a saying in the UP "every two track road will lead to a bait pile" and it is so true. Baiting is very effective at killing 1.5 bucks. Where if you spend +1000.00 on a plot I doubt your going to kill the first thing that walks in. A bait pile that cost 2.50 of apples and corn you are going to shoot the first deer in the pile.
Baiting to me is a huge issue and one that needs to be addressed here in MI for these reason.
1. Extremely bad for age structure with your bucks
2. Tends to spread disease
3. Some here in MI have lost the ability to truely hunt whitetails. Plain and simply they do not know how anymore unless they have a bucket of corn.
The UP in MI used to be the place to hunt, and IMO baiting has really hurt the UP. Food plots or oak flats can not and will not ever do that to a deer herd, and thatis what I see as the big differnce.
Exactly. Though I have never hunted Michigan, I have seen the same thing happen in parts of WI.
07-12-2007, 07:22 AM
#15
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9
RE: OK Guys it's DEBATE time....
ORIGINAL: Germ
gutshot
Have you ever seen a deer "work" its way in to a bait pile? If not that is the big differnce IMO. A deer will be way more relaxed in a big plot or oak flat.
Another differnce is how people hunt with each of them. Baiting you are trying to bring the deer to you, so you can "kill" them.Oak flat you are looking for an entry point you think the deer will use. Food Plot can be a liitle of both. Trying to bring the deer to you or looking for a choke point to catch them coming into the plot.
The last issue it what it does to the management of the deer herd. Back in the 50's, 60's,70, and early 80's baiting was not allowed in MI. Since it has become legal it has ruined the deer herd in the UP, and raised a generation of hunters who can not hunt without it. There is a saying in the UP "every two track road will lead to a bait pile" and it is so true. Baiting is very effective at killing 1.5 bucks. Where if you spend +1000.00 on a plot I doubt your going to kill the first thing that walks in. A bait pile that cost 2.50 of apples and corn you are going to shoot the first deer in the pile.
Baiting to me is a huge issue and one that needs to be addressed here in MI for these reason.
1. Extremely bad for age structure with your bucks
2. Tends to spread disease
3. Some here in MI have lost the ability to truely hunt whitetails. Plain and simply they do not know how anymore unless they have a bucket of corn.
The UP in MI used to be the place to hunt, and IMO baiting has really hurt the UP. Food plots or oak flats can not and will not ever do that to a deer herd, and thatis what I see as the big differnce.
gutshot
Have you ever seen a deer "work" its way in to a bait pile? If not that is the big differnce IMO. A deer will be way more relaxed in a big plot or oak flat.
Another differnce is how people hunt with each of them. Baiting you are trying to bring the deer to you, so you can "kill" them.Oak flat you are looking for an entry point you think the deer will use. Food Plot can be a liitle of both. Trying to bring the deer to you or looking for a choke point to catch them coming into the plot.
The last issue it what it does to the management of the deer herd. Back in the 50's, 60's,70, and early 80's baiting was not allowed in MI. Since it has become legal it has ruined the deer herd in the UP, and raised a generation of hunters who can not hunt without it. There is a saying in the UP "every two track road will lead to a bait pile" and it is so true. Baiting is very effective at killing 1.5 bucks. Where if you spend +1000.00 on a plot I doubt your going to kill the first thing that walks in. A bait pile that cost 2.50 of apples and corn you are going to shoot the first deer in the pile.
Baiting to me is a huge issue and one that needs to be addressed here in MI for these reason.
1. Extremely bad for age structure with your bucks
2. Tends to spread disease
3. Some here in MI have lost the ability to truely hunt whitetails. Plain and simply they do not know how anymore unless they have a bucket of corn.
The UP in MI used to be the place to hunt, and IMO baiting has really hurt the UP. Food plots or oak flats can not and will not ever do that to a deer herd, and thatis what I see as the big differnce.
Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who baits, but only on our little 40 acre private property. I hunt other places, and unless it is someone elses property who also baits, then i do not bait.
07-12-2007, 07:24 AM
#16
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 194
RE: OK Guys it's DEBATE time....
I,d say if your carrying a few bags of corn , apples buck grub,deer caine or anything like it .
Your baiting ..Its like putting2 mouse traps in the barn ,1 with cheese and 1 with nothing ..
What trap do you think the mouse would be cought in ?
As far as tilling, plowing, planting, cutting and hard labor and time into food plots goes .
I believe your not targeting just deer , it brings in a lot more wildlife and you are helping out the fawns , does , bucks and the future exsistanceof the deer , turkey, birds etc,
I would say your definatly drawing in more game but not to one exact location .
I,d say its not baiting as far as planting or hunting oak flats but it is if your bringing in a bag of apples , corn etc..
Your baiting ..Its like putting2 mouse traps in the barn ,1 with cheese and 1 with nothing ..
What trap do you think the mouse would be cought in ?
As far as tilling, plowing, planting, cutting and hard labor and time into food plots goes .
I believe your not targeting just deer , it brings in a lot more wildlife and you are helping out the fawns , does , bucks and the future exsistanceof the deer , turkey, birds etc,
I would say your definatly drawing in more game but not to one exact location .
I,d say its not baiting as far as planting or hunting oak flats but it is if your bringing in a bag of apples , corn etc..
07-12-2007, 07:25 AM
#17
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 4,553
RE: OK Guys it's DEBATE time....
ORIGINAL: SwampCollie
"Baiting" is illegal.
Hunting over "supplemental food sources", is not.
Thats the difference.
"Baiting" is illegal.
Hunting over "supplemental food sources", is not.
Thats the difference.
07-12-2007, 07:25 AM
#18
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: OK Guys it's DEBATE time....
Bait is defined assomething used to lure an animal to hook, trap or kill it.
If it is natural then it can not be considered bait.Humans must place baitspecifically for the purpose of luring the target animal(s).
A naturally growing white oak grove is not bait. A field of crops is not bait because it is not placed there with the intentions of luring animals.
A corn pile is bait as well as a food plot. It is placed or planted for the intentions of luring and attracting deer to kill.
Yeah some people will argue that they plant a plot so they can have a healthier heard. Which is well and good but if it is hunted over then it can be considered bait. I don't know why states do not recognize food plots as bait.
If it is natural then it can not be considered bait.Humans must place baitspecifically for the purpose of luring the target animal(s).
A naturally growing white oak grove is not bait. A field of crops is not bait because it is not placed there with the intentions of luring animals.
A corn pile is bait as well as a food plot. It is placed or planted for the intentions of luring and attracting deer to kill.
Yeah some people will argue that they plant a plot so they can have a healthier heard. Which is well and good but if it is hunted over then it can be considered bait. I don't know why states do not recognize food plots as bait.
07-12-2007, 07:27 AM
#19
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 641
RE: OK Guys it's DEBATE time....
I can see why just throwing out a bag of corn is illegal. Deer seem to be more attracted to it once they find it because its new and plentiful. I know that the foodplot that is on the land I hunt will attract deer, but its late a night, they dont show themselves there during legal hunting hours.
07-12-2007, 07:28 AM
#20
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 782
RE: OK Guys it's DEBATE time....
The bottom line is that either way you hunt the end result is a violent death. I hunt for meat every season. If There is a doe and a buck within range I take the least risk shot. Venison is healthy and taste amazing. If hunting over a feeder helps me achieve my purpose quicker than I am all for that. I'm not lazy, i start scouting in June every season. I put alot of thought into the placement of my bait piles. I don't always hunt over a self made bait pile. But if the land I hunt does not have an abundant food source I will create one.