Thoughts on non-resident fees...
 

I've been formulating some thoughts around the topic of non-resident fees for some time now... I'm not saying I've come to any concrete stances yet, but I've got some ideas floating around,some concepts that seem to make sense in a nebulous sort of way that I'm trying to work into a more solid position in my own mind. Maybe discussing them here will help me solidify my thought process.

I guess what burns me up about the ridiculous prices Illinois -- and other states as well -- charge for access is that their boundaries are abritrary, imaginary lines (well documented, of course -- but just as imaginary) that say this is where "our state" stops and yours begins, based on someone standing in a spot150-200 years agoand saying "Uh, this looks good"... and then the corresponding attitude that the deer (or whichever game animal you want to plug into the equation) are "ours" that we can hold ransom and rake the common, everyday sportsman over the coals for...

I live just a couple miles across the Mississippi river, and guarantee you I live closer to the deer I hunt than a lot of the Illinois residents do which hunt the same public grounds. Don't get me wrong; I think it's just as unfair when Missouri or anyone else does it. I just wonder about the sanity of charging such exorbitant prices for "out-of-staters."

It's getting so that only the wealthy will be able to enjoy the finer hunting territories in our great country, and that will affect the future of our sport. There's a reason you take a kid fishing in a farm pond stocked with hand-sized bluegill, and bait his hook with a plump, juicy cricket and allow it to hang underneath a bobber; he will be much more likely to get hooked on the sport (pun sorta intended) when enjoying early and often success.

There's a huge difference in introducing that kid to fishing that way as opposed to handing hima fly rod and a handful of nymphs and streamers, telling him to"go to it, boy"... just like there's a huge difference in taking a youngster to a state like Illinois where he's got a better chance of seeing deer -- maybe not killing, but at least seeing -- as opposed to some other areas wherehe'll belucky to see a deer all season, let alone in one evening hunt.

I think we should have a national hunting license, valid in all 50 states... :)

I realize this could be very controversial, and the strongest feelings will probably be elicited by those who already reside in incredible deer-hunting geographical states like Illinois, Ohio, Iowa, etc...

I think it could make for a great dialectic, though... and I can finally have a chance to flesh out this vague idea I've got floating around somewhere up there... :)

RE: Thoughts on non-resident fees...
 

Greg, I wish there was some solution to this problem. When I first started hunting in IL, 32 years ago, I could hunt for free on land owned by my dad. Not any more!! But as long as they keep selling out of permits, I don't see them listening to any talk of lowering prices. We are part of the problem because we keep shelling out the cash. But if we didn't there would be someone else who would.

You are right about another thing too. Hunting is fast becoming a rich man sport. From the equipment to the permits to owning land. You are either going to have tons of money or good connections to hunt quality animals in the future.

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Greg, I really like the concept of a national license but I think you may be tipping at windmills.

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sounds like a great idea...the problem is that it is sooo simple our wonderful government will not be able to understand it...:D

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Why not just make non res a set price everywhere. If we were to go to a national liscense that would really upset the ones who are only hunting in their state and paying a generally low fee. It's like they'd be paying a hundred or however much more just to do the same thing they have been doing for years. I like the idea though, it would really help out the ones who hunt many states per year. I just don't think the idea would fly in the end. It would be hard to do, but I like the idea of a standardized out of state fee. Cheaper of course.

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Sorry for the lack of clarity... that's exactly what I was meaning, Coug. The normal, low fee if you were only hunting your state, but then you could buy a non-specific "out-of-state" license...

Or, perhaps even better, rather than punish those who live one mile from the state line, geographic zones could be offered... 400 miles and in from your zip code. It could easily be checked and tracked via computer. THAT would be a lot more fair... Think about those people who live around those little tiny states over on the east coast? I bet they could easily drive three or four hours and go through four or five states... Something like that would make a lot more sense for people in their situation...

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The distribution of revenues garnered would be the problem there. Just think of how many different govt. agencies would be involved. And they don't like to share. I like the idea more and more.
" This year I can only afford my home zone and expansion region #1. But next year my truck will paid off and I can expand to Regions 1,2, and 3. That will allow me to hunt*** miles from home! I think next year I'll go after elk and a coues deer." Like that?

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That's EXACTLY what I'm envisioning, tx!

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Im for reciprical. spell check on this one

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That's right, $435 to hunt Ill and they can hunt Wi for $166???!!! [:@][:@]

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Great topic and one that is unlikely to see meaningful change in the near distant future.There are two thoughts that come to mind for me as it relates to this issue.The first is that in many instances hunters are on DIY hunts and hunting federal land,land that their tax dollars have supported.I do this every year in Idaho,my license and tag run me about $400 to hunt whitetails.
I do believe the circumstances should be more favorable for residents,just not as disproportionate.I would be in favor of a cap from a percentage point of view for non resident states.As an example those states could be no more than 50% higher than their resident license and tag fee's.I don't believe we will ever see this because there is to much money at stake for the best states.
If a state is aggressive and progressive in their game management and devoting their resources to foster better hunting they should be favored,just not to the rediculous degree that they are!

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My biggest gripe is nonresident fees on National Forest. My FEDERAL taxes pay to fund this land, but I am called a non-resident. $500 to hunt elk in CO on my federal land while the CO resident can hunt the same land my taxes are paying for for $36.00.[:@]

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I also believe that a concealed weapons permit issued in my state should be valid in all other states. My state says I can carry, why should another state deny me the right to bear arms. Off topic, but I had to vent.:D

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No deer here, bad tick outbreak this spring, herd population was desimated.[:@]

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Federal land should be treated different except it's seen as lost tax base revenue to each state where the land exists. As far as State land and fees, welcome to the law of supply and demand. It would be nice to have cheaper fees but then the lottery system would kick in in a lot more states.

I've always believe state parks with a deer problem due to lack of hunting should employ a revenue generating lottery for hunters to hunt. This would in thoery reduce license fees. I'm all about the exploitation of natural resources.

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Good points, all... and I see I'm not alone in my thinking. Great use of the word "exploitation," as that's exactly how I would categorize it as well.

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No doubt, NR tag pricing is ridiculus! The price to play the whitetail game in states such as IL, IA, and KS is getting staggering.... add an Outfitters cost into the equation and you can easily see why many folks would never be able to experience one! :(

I say let's simply BAN all NR hunting, or atleast here in IL. ;):D

All kidding aside, it's become strictly a money game for ourDNR as well as our Farm Bureau, who controls more than the DNR does in my state! There's no end in sight, just be thankful that they don't limit the tags like they used to.You have to pay a bunch butatleast you canstill get one every year.

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Non resident tags are like Gas prices, Crazy!! New Mexico NR Elk tags and Montana NR Mule Deertags are the reason I can no longer play in those 2 states.

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IL, appreciate your input, as always...

I've got a sneaking suspicion they don't limit the tags, either -- even though they claim too. The reason I say that is I've never heard of anyone turned down, and they supposedly capped it at the number of tickets which was bought several years ago. Either they're truly not capping it, or the number of hunters with the resources to pay such exorbitant prices are fewer or they're at least unwilling (which I know several, such as MeanV alluded to above) that simply throw in the towel after a certain point.

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I do not like the high prices on out-of-state tags either. But, having said that, I realize that state-level politicians set these things and they are not subject to votes from out of state sportsmen. The prices of these tags will not go down until the outfitters notice their business being hurt as a result of the expensive tags and start complaining to their representatives. I would like to take a big game trip myself, but the cost is prohibitive right now, I'll have to save up. From what research I have done, I'll probably wind up hunting Canada and making it part of a longer vacation trip. As for Illinois, I would not hunt or fish there, not because of the license/tag fee, but because they make their residents get a permit to buy a firearm.

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I can understand a state charging a non-res more, but the scandalous rates that some charge borders on the obscene and guarantees that I'll never visit them. I don't care for the notion of a national hunting license, goobermint at the fed level is already too large and bloated, and the states should have some say over the game animals that they have to manage within their own borders. If I were to suggest anything it would be a rate cap on non-res pricing, perhaps double the resident rates, and then let the market dictate access costs on private land.

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OK now I'll pipe in on my gripe!!

Why in the world do I have to pay a nonresident fee for my hunting tags in a state where I own land and pay taxes. In many cases more taxes then a resident. Just because I am not living there full time is just not right. I pay taxes, work the land and take care of it better then a lot of residents. It just don't make sence.

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Reminds me of some heated arguements this winter whenI sat around with a broken ankle and many said that we should not show blood in our kill photos, use the word harvest instead of kill, etc. etc etc watered downed politically correct BS or we could lose our hunting rights. Hunting is way to much of a money game, it is the only viable way to maintain animal populations, and did I mention that it is a MONEY GAME. In other words show your blood if you wish in your photos and enjoy the whack noise of your arrow as it slices through hide and flesh because your hunting rights are not at stake.If you wish to, shoot a lamb on public tv with a handgun up close or wring a chickens head. Hunting is here to stay baby.

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The fees are rediculous as you say. If they did lower the NR fees to much lower levels or nationalize permit fees nationwide, I would like to see the quotas strictly enforced though. As for example in Colorado, say the either sex elk hunting permit was $50-$100. You can bet your bottom dollar the over-the-counter units would be absolutely more crowded! I know of many a hunter who won't pay almost $500 to hunt elk but would go if it was much lower.

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I do think it should charge moremoney to hunt out of state but not nearly as much as they do.

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You can hike, camp, bike ride, horse ride, etc. for free on those lands all year long, BUT the state is in charge of the management of the animals that live on those lands, not the feds. You're paying the states fees to hunt the animals that they are in charge of managing.
With a National hunting license, how would management work? In other words, how would states know how many hunters were hunting and how many animals were being harvested? If there is a Nationa game tag, what would keep hunters from all flocking to the same hot spots for certain game animals. I guess I'm having a hard time visualizing how a National tag would even work.
Mike H., I'm right there with ya. I am a NR landowner and Ihave no rights to hunt my own land like the resident landowners do. Doesn't seem right.

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I look at this from a different perspective, I guess. TO ME.....states charge the extra fees to act as somewhat of a DETERRENT. If IL, Iowa, Ohio, KY opened their borders to all hunters......then they would have to limit access via a lottery (or some other viable method) or risk the depletion of their resource(s).

In the overall scheme of things......I just don't see the license fees as anything more than a drop in the bucket of a state's DNR budget (and I guess I'm thinking, locally, here).

If I were the IL DNR......I'd rather keep my $4,500.......than to allow 10 more hunters into my state to deplete the resources. If it were rock-bottom cheap to hunt other states.....I'd probably hunt VA, SC, TN and PA, this year. As it is....I might not hunt any of them. If I had to guess.....I'd say they were "just fine" with that.

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How is the Non Res fees in those states you mentioned jeff? I think TN is around $200 something.

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I don't know the exact cost.....but I think it would cost me $250 to hunt SC.

Less than $200 to hunt VA. TN and PA I have no clue.

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I live in Nth Al. i'm 30mins from Tn. 30 Mins from Ms and like 100miles from Ga, but can't hunt any of those due to the cost of the licence, i like the idea of so many miles per licence

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I like the rates we have for non resident hunters and can see the value in why we have them. If it were cheap for out of sask people to come and hunt then everyone would be doing it and our hunting pressure would sky rocket. It is good here because no one is here. Lower the prices and make it more accessable this would change. I look at it as protecting it for us. If i want to hunt someplace else i expect to pay a stiff licence fee as that is whatmy province demands for others to hunt here.

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I don't know about the last couple of years. But in '04 we were on vacation in Colorado. We were due to haed back the day the call ins started for IL. I got up early and tried for about an hour to get thru. Then I tried whenever I had a cell phone signal and could not get thru. So I waiteduntil we got home around midnight and tried again. I finally got thru and got a recording that said had sold out of 12,000 tags in less than 8 hours. So I had no tags to hunt on my dads farm where I have hunted for 30 years. And another farm I had been hunting for 9 years, all within an hours drive of my house. Yet thousands of hunters could travel thousands of miles to hunt for a few days at an outfitters and then go home never to set foot in IL again. THAT JUST WAS NOT FAIR AND STILL PI$$ES ME OFF. That year they did havealimit.

RE: Thoughts on non-resident fees...
 

Greg,

I have killed enough mule deer, elk, and antelope. I think I'll live if I never kill (not harvest) another one. However, I hatebeing stuck in my own backyard because the costof goingout of stateis so inhabitive (I am a Huntaholic-I admit it. One of my goals is to kill a deer in all fifty states). I understand both sides of the issue. I would hate to have the feds involved in a state's ability to managetheir ownnatural resources-it would end up a serious cluster f***.

Here's my offering...

If I draw a "resident" tag, and if I so desire to transfer that tag into a "non-resident's" name (before the season starts of course), then so be it. The status quo remains the same-right? Someone is filling the boots of that licenses-who cares where they live. This concept would allow you and I the abilityto trade hunts (natural resources) anywhere. It would be a roll of the dices. I have the chance to kill your deer, you have the chance to kill mine...so on and so forth.

I wish I also had the abilityto designate a "shooter". For example, if I am standing right next to you and give you written permission to "kill" my elk, then where's the foul? I'm present (a requirement of such act). We could even go register the designation beforehand (make it legal and all) with the localDNR office.I would do this in a second if it meant hunting elsewhere!

Makes to much sense...

Now, let me shed some light. In Colorado, Our hunting industry generates $13 billion/year. That's $6 billion more than our ski industry (if you can believe that). Can you imagine the lose of revenue if Colorado changed their current game laws? Do you think the politicians will allow such an event to occur?

The wildlife(a limited renewable resource) is a means to an end...13 billion of them. Big brother isn't going to do anything short of filling his pockets. It's basic economics! I do not see any changes in the near future-other than the price of nonresident tags going up!

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Thanks Mike..I've been singing the same song for years. We've had a camp in PA since 1968.. Still pay non resident fees even though we pay taxes and school taxes..etc PLUS we get no Landowners option to get in early for doe tags. Bear tags are too high to make it worthwhile for a 3 day hunt. Throw us land-owners a bone, instead of just giving us one.

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I know they suck, but I dont mind them... The state uses it to fun DNR activities, which include paying gamewardens and supporting habitats.

Also, I live in MD and every year the "Dutch Army" Invades from the north during gun season. I usually get stuck behind 10-15 PA trucks going to my hunting spot. The problem is that most outta-staters just come to shoot, they dont put any effort into managing the deer herd, they figured they paid the fees, now let me shoot at everything i see, on their 1-day of hunting per year. (sorry all you PA guys, I know its not how everyone hunts).

I just think its only fair to pay more to protect the natural resourses for those living in the states, after all this country is the United STATES. The fed shouldnt have any role in game regulations... Its one of the last gov't entities that remains in the power of the states, just the way everything but defense should be, and the way our founding fathers wanted it!

Besides every state has jacked up outta state fees so it balances out.

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Thanks for the replies, guys...

I definitely agree with less government, so that kind of shoots a whole in that thought process... at least on a national level. Good post, Ed. Maybe states in close proximity could work out a reciprocal agreement as was mentioned earlier, or have "alliances" and share the combined monies?

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I like huckleberrys idea of "tag swapping" for sure. Anyone that has a tag for any given species can sign it over to anyone they want, wether it be a resident or NR, and visa-versa. That would give "hunt swap" a whole new perspective to all hunters.