View Poll Results: A poll
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll
Who Should Get the Deer - Hunter or Deer Farm Operator?
05-04-2007, 08:15 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 676
Who Should Get the Deer - Hunter or Deer Farm Operator?
This article was published in the St. Paul (Minnesota) Pioneer Press last fall. I've been trying to figure out if the hunter was able to keep the deer, etc., but have been unsuccessful so far.
I know he took the deer with a rifle but this could probably happen to a bow hunter too. As the hunter in the story says, not many people are looking to see if there's a small tag in the buck's ear before they shoot.
After you read the story, let everyone know what you think...
Head hunt: Who will get family pet/trophy buck?
CHRIS NISKANEN
Craig Keefe has no intentions of giving up the head of a trophy 10-point buck he shot on public land in Cass County this fall, even if the owners of deer No. 27 haul him into court.
"I'm not worried about it because I don't think they have a leg to stand on,'' said Keefe, 31, who lives near Backus. "I'm just more excited about getting it back from the taxidermist."
Kerry and Rachel Krumwiede of Pine River say Keefe's buck was a valuable pet at their small deer hobby farm. It escaped around Nov. 1, just before deer season, after a bear tore open the fence of their deer pen.
"As our pet, I don't want it hanging on his wall,'' Kerry Krumwiede said last week. "I think I'm entitled to the animal anyway because it's my property."
The bitter custody case over the buck's head is not only one of the most unusual incidents from Minnesota's deer season, but it also highlights the growing conflict between Minnesota's domestic deer and elk producers and the hunting community.
The Department of Natural Resources says Keefe did nothing wrong Nov. 7 when he killed and tagged the trophy buck, which could be identified only by a yellow ear tag, about the size of a matchbook, with the number 27. DNR conservation officer Nikki Shoutz said Keefe shot the deer 3½ miles from the Krumwiede farm and legally tagged and registered it.
The DNR is no longer involved in the case, said Shoutz's supervisor, Tom Provost, adding, "Now, it's a civil action.''
State animal-health officials say the Krumwiedes also followed the law by reporting the escaped deer to the DNR within the required 24 hours and attempting to find the deer and recapture it.
Deer No. 27, however, made the fatal mistake of stepping out of a swamp 70 yards from Keefe, a deer hunter since age 9.
TAG AND TROUBLE
"The tag was in its right ear, and I had a left-side, broadside shot,'' said Keefe, who has several other trophy deer on his wall. "He walked around a bottleneck in the swamp like a big buck would, looking pretty proud. I didn't see the tag."
Thrilled to see such a big buck, Keefe killed it. "I went over and poked it with my rifle. It didn't move. I got my brother (Nick) and he came over. We hunt and fish together all the time.''
But when they grabbed the deer's antlers and picked it up, Nick said, "'Wait, there's a tag.''
"What do you mean, there's a tag?" Craig responded.
"Look at his ear," Nick said.
And that's when Craig Keefe's trouble began.
He called Shoutz, who told him it was likely the Krumwiede buck. DNR officials wanted to test the deer for disease but couldn't contact Keefe in time. Because of warm weather, Keefe said he wanted to process the deer quickly and get it to a taxidermist to avoid spoilage.
Keefe said he also called the Krumwiedes as a "courtesy." Additional heated phone calls have occurred, during which Keefe said the Krumwiedes have threatened to take him to court to get the head back.
"I believe I've been civil, but I don't like being threatened with an attorney,'' Keefe said.
Kerry Krumwiede refused to comment about any possible legal action.
PUBLIC OR PRIVATE
The crux of the legal argument appears to be this: Is the head of deer No. 27 considered a body part of legal livestock and is thus private property of the Krumwiedes? Or did deer No. 27 become fair legal game when it wandered onto public land?
"The question of the tag will be fascinating,'' said Ted Lundrigan, an attorney in private practice in Pine River. "And once it's dead, what's the value of the head?"
He said a civil court judge would have to weigh other issues, such as whether the deer had become feral after it escaped and whether Keefe could have known the deer was tame.
Given that the deer had only a small yellow ear tag and had wandered far from the Krumwiede farm, Lundrigan said the case favors the hunter.
"If there's a cow on county land, I can't shoot it because there is no cow season. But with a deer, that's different — there is a deer season,'' he said. "If I raise deer in country where there is a deer season, (escapes) are a risk that I would have to take.''
Keefe said he speaks for all deer hunters when he says, "When you see a rack like that, the last thing you're going to do is try to identify its livestock number. What are we suppose to do? Look for ID tags on every deer before we shoot?"
There are about 10,000 domestic elk and 7,000 domestic white-tailed deer held in captivity in Minnesota, said Dr. Paul Anderson, assistant director of the Minnesota Board of Animal Health, and the number of animals reported escaped each year is low.
"They are rare, maybe 10 a year,'' Anderson said.
He said the Krumwiedes are a small producer, with only four deer. But captive white-tailed deer bucks have become a valuable commodity in Minnesota, with more than 400 farms in operation. The animals are sold for breeding and to shooting preserves.
On its Web site, the Minnesota Deer Breeders Association lists prices of $300 to $500 for whitetail bucks and fawns; other Web sites indicate private shooting preserves charge hunters $8,000 and up to kill a trophy-sized deer.
Deer and elk shooting preserves are controversial in Minnesota, with the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association opposing them. The group believes the increased transportation of domestic elk and deer will increase the chance of diseases getting into the wild. A recent loophole in Minnesota law has allowed shooting preserves to operate in the state, but some lawmakers want them closed down because they believe fenced preserves go against the ethic of fair chase.
Keefe said his buck didn't act like a tame deer, and he plans to hang it — with ear tag — in his home.
"My question is, why does he want it back?'' he said of Kerry Krumwiede. "For the same reason I want to keep it — to hang on his wall. I'm not giving it up, and I'm fighting for anyone in the future who has this happen to them."
Chris Niskanen can be reached at [email protected] or 651-228-5524.
I know he took the deer with a rifle but this could probably happen to a bow hunter too. As the hunter in the story says, not many people are looking to see if there's a small tag in the buck's ear before they shoot.
After you read the story, let everyone know what you think...
Head hunt: Who will get family pet/trophy buck?
CHRIS NISKANEN
Craig Keefe has no intentions of giving up the head of a trophy 10-point buck he shot on public land in Cass County this fall, even if the owners of deer No. 27 haul him into court.
"I'm not worried about it because I don't think they have a leg to stand on,'' said Keefe, 31, who lives near Backus. "I'm just more excited about getting it back from the taxidermist."
Kerry and Rachel Krumwiede of Pine River say Keefe's buck was a valuable pet at their small deer hobby farm. It escaped around Nov. 1, just before deer season, after a bear tore open the fence of their deer pen.
"As our pet, I don't want it hanging on his wall,'' Kerry Krumwiede said last week. "I think I'm entitled to the animal anyway because it's my property."
The bitter custody case over the buck's head is not only one of the most unusual incidents from Minnesota's deer season, but it also highlights the growing conflict between Minnesota's domestic deer and elk producers and the hunting community.
The Department of Natural Resources says Keefe did nothing wrong Nov. 7 when he killed and tagged the trophy buck, which could be identified only by a yellow ear tag, about the size of a matchbook, with the number 27. DNR conservation officer Nikki Shoutz said Keefe shot the deer 3½ miles from the Krumwiede farm and legally tagged and registered it.
The DNR is no longer involved in the case, said Shoutz's supervisor, Tom Provost, adding, "Now, it's a civil action.''
State animal-health officials say the Krumwiedes also followed the law by reporting the escaped deer to the DNR within the required 24 hours and attempting to find the deer and recapture it.
Deer No. 27, however, made the fatal mistake of stepping out of a swamp 70 yards from Keefe, a deer hunter since age 9.
TAG AND TROUBLE
"The tag was in its right ear, and I had a left-side, broadside shot,'' said Keefe, who has several other trophy deer on his wall. "He walked around a bottleneck in the swamp like a big buck would, looking pretty proud. I didn't see the tag."
Thrilled to see such a big buck, Keefe killed it. "I went over and poked it with my rifle. It didn't move. I got my brother (Nick) and he came over. We hunt and fish together all the time.''
But when they grabbed the deer's antlers and picked it up, Nick said, "'Wait, there's a tag.''
"What do you mean, there's a tag?" Craig responded.
"Look at his ear," Nick said.
And that's when Craig Keefe's trouble began.
He called Shoutz, who told him it was likely the Krumwiede buck. DNR officials wanted to test the deer for disease but couldn't contact Keefe in time. Because of warm weather, Keefe said he wanted to process the deer quickly and get it to a taxidermist to avoid spoilage.
Keefe said he also called the Krumwiedes as a "courtesy." Additional heated phone calls have occurred, during which Keefe said the Krumwiedes have threatened to take him to court to get the head back.
"I believe I've been civil, but I don't like being threatened with an attorney,'' Keefe said.
Kerry Krumwiede refused to comment about any possible legal action.
PUBLIC OR PRIVATE
The crux of the legal argument appears to be this: Is the head of deer No. 27 considered a body part of legal livestock and is thus private property of the Krumwiedes? Or did deer No. 27 become fair legal game when it wandered onto public land?
"The question of the tag will be fascinating,'' said Ted Lundrigan, an attorney in private practice in Pine River. "And once it's dead, what's the value of the head?"
He said a civil court judge would have to weigh other issues, such as whether the deer had become feral after it escaped and whether Keefe could have known the deer was tame.
Given that the deer had only a small yellow ear tag and had wandered far from the Krumwiede farm, Lundrigan said the case favors the hunter.
"If there's a cow on county land, I can't shoot it because there is no cow season. But with a deer, that's different — there is a deer season,'' he said. "If I raise deer in country where there is a deer season, (escapes) are a risk that I would have to take.''
Keefe said he speaks for all deer hunters when he says, "When you see a rack like that, the last thing you're going to do is try to identify its livestock number. What are we suppose to do? Look for ID tags on every deer before we shoot?"
There are about 10,000 domestic elk and 7,000 domestic white-tailed deer held in captivity in Minnesota, said Dr. Paul Anderson, assistant director of the Minnesota Board of Animal Health, and the number of animals reported escaped each year is low.
"They are rare, maybe 10 a year,'' Anderson said.
He said the Krumwiedes are a small producer, with only four deer. But captive white-tailed deer bucks have become a valuable commodity in Minnesota, with more than 400 farms in operation. The animals are sold for breeding and to shooting preserves.
On its Web site, the Minnesota Deer Breeders Association lists prices of $300 to $500 for whitetail bucks and fawns; other Web sites indicate private shooting preserves charge hunters $8,000 and up to kill a trophy-sized deer.
Deer and elk shooting preserves are controversial in Minnesota, with the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association opposing them. The group believes the increased transportation of domestic elk and deer will increase the chance of diseases getting into the wild. A recent loophole in Minnesota law has allowed shooting preserves to operate in the state, but some lawmakers want them closed down because they believe fenced preserves go against the ethic of fair chase.
Keefe said his buck didn't act like a tame deer, and he plans to hang it — with ear tag — in his home.
"My question is, why does he want it back?'' he said of Kerry Krumwiede. "For the same reason I want to keep it — to hang on his wall. I'm not giving it up, and I'm fighting for anyone in the future who has this happen to them."
Chris Niskanen can be reached at [email protected] or 651-228-5524.
05-04-2007, 08:23 AM
#2
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 122
RE: Who Should Get the Deer - Hunter or Deer Farm Operator?
I vote for the hunter. I know when I look thru the scope of either my shotgun or muzzleloader during Illinois I'm not looking at the ear of the deer. I'm placing my crosshair on the vitals. Tough luck on the deer farm.
05-04-2007, 08:34 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 676
RE: Who Should Get the Deer - Hunter or Deer Farm Operator?
BTW, part 2 to this would probably be, is that hunting or was he shooting a "pet" or domesticated animal? I'd vote it's hunting and that the animal is not as domesticated as the farm operators think. Otherwise it would have come trotting home to the dinner bell with the cows every night.
On the same token, I'd find nothing demeaning about telling people the circumstances. Would be an interesting story and they'd know I wasn't trying to act like I'd bet patterning this deer for years and finally nabbed him.
On the same token, I'd find nothing demeaning about telling people the circumstances. Would be an interesting story and they'd know I wasn't trying to act like I'd bet patterning this deer for years and finally nabbed him.
05-04-2007, 08:45 AM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 210
RE: Who Should Get the Deer - Hunter or Deer Farm Operator?
I also vote for the hunter. Game farm should have better fencing to keep tract of his animals. If a deer gets out of a game farm and not a zoo, i dought if you would notice them doing anything different than a wild deer in the woods, they will be meandering through the woods browsing on grass and such.
05-04-2007, 09:16 AM
#6
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 146
RE: Who Should Get the Deer - Hunter or Deer Farm Operator?
In my opinion the hunter did nothing wrong here. He legaly harvested the deer and even called the farmer as a courtisy. As stated how was he to know the deer had a livestock tag in its offside ear.
05-04-2007, 09:17 AM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenixville, PA USA
Posts: 5,541
RE: Who Should Get the Deer - Hunter or Deer Farm Operator?
The deer was on public land and was taken in a legal and fair chase manner. I feel for the owner's loss, but it is not the hunter's fault.
If I were in his shoes I would offer to pay them something for their loss even though there was no fault on my part, but as a gesture of good faith. It sounds like he has been reasonable thus far and with this gesture any further legal pursuits by the owners would make them look bad.
If I were in his shoes I would offer to pay them something for their loss even though there was no fault on my part, but as a gesture of good faith. It sounds like he has been reasonable thus far and with this gesture any further legal pursuits by the owners would make them look bad.
05-04-2007, 09:18 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,616
RE: Who Should Get the Deer - Hunter or Deer Farm Operator?
Even though i can see both sides of the story like i would want my pet to be displayed as a trophy on someones wall if it was my pet, but in the same sense the hunter did everything legal and made an effort to call them and tell them what happened. So in that respect i think the hunter should keep the animal. I wonder if he is going to leave the tag in the ear when he mounts it? lol
05-04-2007, 09:39 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 676
RE: Who Should Get the Deer - Hunter or Deer Farm Operator?
Actually bwhunter501, I think leaving the tag in might work. Would for sure start a conversation when newcomers saw it for the first time.
05-04-2007, 09:42 AM
#10
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: Who Should Get the Deer - Hunter or Deer Farm Operator?
ORIGINAL: bwhunter501
Even though i can see both sides of the story like i would want my pet to be displayed as a trophy on someones wall if it was my pet, but in the same sense the hunter did everything legal and made an effort to call them and tell them what happened. So in that respect i think the hunter should keep the animal. I wonder if he is going to leave the tag in the ear when he mounts it? lol
Even though i can see both sides of the story like i would want my pet to be displayed as a trophy on someones wall if it was my pet, but in the same sense the hunter did everything legal and made an effort to call them and tell them what happened. So in that respect i think the hunter should keep the animal. I wonder if he is going to leave the tag in the ear when he mounts it? lol
WILD ANIMALS are not pets[:@]