Back tension Controversy
 

OK, I have been working since last fall on shooting my release using back tension. I took what I read and applied it to my shooting form and have gotten what I would say is decent at it. I have read many a conflicting article on trigger pressure and proper form when executing this type of surprise release. One article I read said you want a fairly heavy trigger which requires you to squeeze and pull through at the same time, another article states a lighter trigger pressure which doesn't require much squeezing and triggers by pulling through a loose fitting release. I am trying to learn more about the subject. Which way is prefered? What methods do you use, or have been taught? The reason I am writng this is because sometimes I get stuck, meaning I am pulling through and the release doesn't go off. Also it seems to me that having to squeeze and pull creates a fair amount of tension and I have been under the impression that tension robs accuracy. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Shane

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

anybody?

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

You want a stiff trigger, but one that breaks clean. Not your typical cheap wrist release. It has to be a quality one with no creep in the trigger mechanism. And it has to fit you correctly for length in order for it to work, so an adjustable one would be really nice.

I personally don't use back tension on a triggered release. I have played with it some, but it sort of defeats the purpose of having a trigger in my opinion.

Believe it or not you can be very accurate and still slap the trigger. You just need to have a very consistent follow through and be calm while aiming.

My opinions anyway.

Paul

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

there are a couple schools of thought. push and pull seems to work pretty good w/ triggers, but i can now shoot an index trigger w/ back tension w/out pushing or pulling. i'd say that 99% of the time the issue, no matter which school you come from, is that you've got the wrong muscles tight. you have to learn to relax everything you're not using. you also have to have the bow fit you just right. if you're chicken-winging your release arm you're too short, and if you've gone past the line of your arrow w/ your release elbow you're long. your neck needs to be straight up and relaxed. if that muscle that goes down the right side of your neck is tight from tilting your head - back tension doesn't work. it needs a clear and relaxed line of travel to your rhomboid - or your rhomboid won't work. check your tricep for tension, and your forearm, and your fingers, and your shoulder. tension in them inhibits back tension. if you can get a little bit of a feeling like you're hanging when you're at full draw - that's the right place to start executing your shot.

i guess in one school you load up tension on the system and pull thru it, and in the other there is no added tension to the system at all.

if there's any way you could get w/ someone from any of the schools of thought, who's good at it, i think it would help you a lot.

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

I was hoping you would chime in John, I know you were in the midst of learning all this stuff a year or two ago, I remember briefly reading about it. Thanks for the insight. BTW, are my strings finished yet;)

Shane

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

you want a medium triger pull

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

i don't know if they're finished yet, but if not i'm getting there.

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

I really agree with what John has said here except I am not from the school of thought that endorses push/pull.

No matter what technique you use, it is all about holding the tension to execute a shot in a part of your body that allows execution to be extremely consistent. Head position is a huge part of this, if you are not completely vertical with your head position it is difficult to hold the tension and execute a good shot in the proper places. Because of how short and compact your rhomboids are, they are the ideal muscle group to hold this tension. Before every shot, I mentally visualize the feeling of no tension in my bow hand, bow arm, bow shoulder, neck, release shoulder, release arm, and release hand. It is a feeling quite like what John described as "hanging there".

To get a good idea of what this should feel like, with nothing in your hands, put your arms in the position of holding a bow at full draw, with yoru head fully straight up, and build tension in your rhomboid muscles in your back, if done properly you can use that tension to hold your form there while being perfectly relaxed in your bow hand, bow arm, bow shoulder, neck, release shoulder, release arm, and release hand. Sometimes when I am shooting bad shots I will actually do this exercise with no bow in my hand just to feel and anchor the feeling of the tension being in the right place.

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

And in regards to triggers............

I am now shooting a thumb trigger full time. I am actually shooting a Carter Just Cuz now and have been for about 2 months, and was shooting a TRU Ball ST3 before that since about September.

It took me a full year of shooting nothing but a hinged back tension release to get a good shot sequence down to the point that I was comfortable going back to a thumb trigger without worries of going back to punching and timing. My first 4 months or so back on a thumb trigger had me with a very stiff trigger (6-7lbs), I would preload the trigger as part of my shot sequence. Now however I am using a much lighter trigger (3-4lbs) because I know I am shooting good strong shots, and this lighter trigger cuts precious seconds off my shot sequence and allows me to get more shots in that timing window that perfect shots are likely to happen. I use the same shot execution technique whether I am on a thumb trigger or hinge.

***Edit - One last thing. I do not use a pure backtension technique such as what Larry Wise teaches, however I do use the same muscles to hold and execute my shot as what Larry teaches. While pulling through the shot with rhomboids like Larry teaches, I alsorelaxing my release hand at the same time similar to the Dave Cousins video TFOX showed a few months ago. It is repeatable for me, and I am not rotating my wrist at all during execution however I do relax that release hand during execution. If you zoom in close up on my release hand with a video camera, you can actually see the color change in my fingers right before execution because the relaxation allows blood to flow into my fingers just as the shot breaks..........;).

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

And one last thought................

I really really really don't like the thought of someone trying to learn both push/pull without a good coach working with them. It is really really difficult to both push and pull consistently in my opinion, and would take most people months and months of blank bale only to build a repeatableexecution into their shot sequence. I have talked this over with a LOT of people that are VERY well known on the national shooting level and decided that just pulling was best for me. I believe this is the easiest way to learn something that is repeatable and gets the job done well. To learn a repeatable push you almost have to learn to contract your lats on the front bow arm side and I don't feel that is a good muscle group to try and do anything consistent with and certainly not a place I would want tension during my shot sequence.

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

This back tention release doesn't sound like the best choice for treestand hunting to me,shooting at a downward angle, when you must be bent at the waist, possibly while sitting.Wouldn't this be too awkward to be consistant with this release technique?:eek:

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

I shoot a thumb trigger for hunting with no problems, but I can guarantee you if I need to punch it on a live animal to get the shot off I will............;)[8D]

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

I shoot Stans, Carters and caliper releases with back tension. For the Stans and Carters I prefer a hair trigger. These two are for target only. For the caliper, which is only for hunting, I prefer a heavier trigger pull. It would suck to have your release go off accidentally during a hunting situation. With Murphys law, if that did happen, it would be with the biggest buck of your life![:-]

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

GregH:

Nice to see you posting.

Your thought brought up a question I have. "I" place my "trigger" finger (index) behind the trigger during the draw and only move it in front JUST before I'm getting ready to shoot (and I shoot a Scott, if that makes ANY difference). that's the best safeguard I know of to NOT send an arrow.I was never taught this...just do it. Is this SOP?

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

Guys, I appreciate the input. This has turned into a very informative topic for me.

Shane

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

It's a very good idea.

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

there is a release truball makes, the bt ultra gold, that is designed to be shot like that matt, and i see a lot of guys using it that don't know its for that. i shoot a plain old ultra 2. its for shooting the way larry teaches, which i try and do. i relax my fingers before execution, but as a unit w/ the rest of my hand, arm, shoulder... - you know the routine. the release doesn't slip at all when i shoot. quite a few of my buddies shoot exactly the way you describe, w/ and w/out triggers, and they're all open a and pro shooters, and are really good shots. i'mjust really starting to shoot good this way, better than i ever have - so i'mscared to try anything newright now.

RE: Back tension Controversy
 

I shoot with the push pull method also. For indoor and spots I like the just cuz, but for 3-D, as it always seems windy here, I shoot the scott little bitty goose. To shoot with proper back tension, the trigger should not be at the end of your finger. It should be at the inner most nuckle on your finger, therefore I like a release with the trigger mounted further back on the barrel. I can still get the surprise release that I am looking for with the trigger set medium to heavy.