RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Like I have said many times before, DESIREdrives us to higher levels and causes us to make sacrifices, not excuses. Save the excuses, they will get you nowhere. A very good friend of mine, Alan Foster who wrote for North American Whitetail in the late 1980s use to tell me in regards to shooting big bucks - "those that can, do; those that cant just bad mouth those that can". Everyone of us is driven by different interests, you may say that a career or family keeps you from the deer woods but I say BS, it is other things that keep you from the deer woods, things like new pick-up trucks, fishing boats, motorcycles, campers, new homes etc etc etc. Some of you just HAVE to buy that new toy,others just HAVE to kill a monster whitetail. I am driving a truck with 180,000 miles on it and living in an old farm house that is over 100 years old.I dont have a motorcycle, boat, camper or a Rolex watch but I know for certain that this fall I will get a crack at a whitetail scoring at least 150". It is all about priorities and I am not talking about or suggesting that anyone put hunting before family like has been hinted. I am also not saying that not killing big bucks makes anyone less of a deer hunter but quit making excuses for another hunters big buck success or your own lack thereof. If you would rather spend your time paying for a new Harley than becoming a better deer hunter, that is not right or wrong. Have at it and I sincerely hope that you are happy. Heck, I am not walking around bitching that I cant have a new Harley because I have to hunt to feed my family .. or some other lame excuse. Spend your time and money in a way that makes you happy but realize that guys shooting big bucks consistently are making sacrifices to do it, not excuses.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

:eek:My truck has 115,000 miles on it and is a 99'. I don't own a boat, camper, rolex or deer farm. My house is almost 40 yrs old. I live within my means but to do that I have to have a JOB. I don't see where I am bad mouthing anyone or making any excuses. You seem to be the one bad mouthing those that won't quit their job to hunt "trophys" or ignore their children so they can spend more time hunting. How can you say that it is BS when I say I need to devote time to my job and my family? You know, I liked your book I just said it didn't really address my real world and now you seem to have your panties in a knot. Well Don, unlike you I prefer to raise my children and not leave that up to their mother or someone else. Now go and blow your "real world desire" smoke up someone else's ass.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

This is a pretty brash statement if you ask me. So you're telling me that everyone who can't do all they want with hunting is just making up excuses? Excuse me, but I do believe there are some things more important than tagging a buck. Family should come before anything, period. It should come before a job, hunting, money, whatever! For those of you were lucky enough (not saying that's all there is to it) to be able get a jobin the outdoor industry, good for you. Seriously, I am happy for anyone that gets a job doing something like that. But to bad mouth those of us who can't fathom sacrificing everything just sothey can shoot a deer is wrong. Many of us do sacrifice quite a bit each season to hunt the amounts we do, prove me otherwise.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

well said!

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Point totally missed

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

100% agree.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Then you can't read, not my problem.

The point is: We sacrifice everyday we go out to hunt. But to able to hunt, there are some things we can't sacrifice and won't sacrifice. Family is number one. No one should put deer hunting above their family. Period. You talk like you and your buddy are the only ones who've given something up it order to hunt. Plain and Simple: YOU'RE WRONG!

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

I guess your reading comprehension skills are taking a day off?

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Guys I don't believe anyone is telling you to sacrifice Family or Job. Here are some things I do.

I don't go out with the guys... Ever
I do not eat out, maybe once every3 months
I do not drink
I do not smoke
I stop playing golf, maybe 3 times a year now, instead of the 3 times a week I use to play.

There are pile more things I do also, but none effect my family life.

I don't spend 1 min less with my family than I did before, I just have shifted my free time Priorties. That is all he is talking about in his book.

Nobody, I mean nobody takes care of my kids, but me and my wife:)

I drive a 1995 ford and a little POS car, LOL My co-workers laugh at me, but so what:D

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Beat me to it brother!

Except for the golf thing, 3 times a year is still too much! [8D]

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

No not at all. You're ability to see that some can't and won't sacrifice things is what's lacking. Bruce put it really well, we all have sacrificed something. You're calling the amount of sacrifice we can do as an excuse. It's not that at all, it's trying to find balance to do what we love. I use family because that is something I never put behind hunting, if you missed the point because of that, well that's my fault, and I can admit that part of it. We all sacrifice stuff we enjoy. Money, Freetime activity, etc. But saying we're just making up excuses is wrong.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Hey Bruce, nice to meet you. I didnt realize that you live in my house and are so familiar with my family relationships, job status and bank account. I guess my generalized statement hit a little too close to home. Sorry, it really wasnt meant that way. I was just trying to make a point about how each of us has different priorities once we get past the OBVIOUS ONE OF OUR FAMILIES. I didnt realize that you had given up all other interests BESIDES YOUR FAMILYto hunt.AGAIN, MY WAY ISNT THE ONLY WAY OR THE RIGHT WAY, WE ALL HAVE TO DECIDE FOR OURSELVES WHAT MAKES US HAPPY. MY CHOICES DONT MAKE ME ANY BETTER OR WORSE THAN YOURS MAKES YOU. JUST QUIT MAKING EXCUSES WHEN IN THE LONG RUN WE ARE EACH GOING TO GET OUT OF HUNTING WHAT WE PUT INTO IT. IF YOU ARE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU GET OUT OF IT THEN "GREAT FOR YOU"

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

See, thats just it.....I don't go out with the guys or smoke or play golf. If I go out to eat it is with my family. If I have free time, and that is time not spent with family, working on the house, cutting enough firewood for the next winter, time spent in the large garden growing stuff to eat, working around the house, or helping my extended family with their "chores, or working at my job, if I have free time I spend it in the deer woods or preparing for the deer woods (shooting arrows, amintaining gear, etc.) The only way to gain more time is to take away from family, house/garden, or job. To claim I am making excuses and do not have the desire or discipline is BS and I don't appreciate it.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

I am familiar with what you wrote in your book ;). And I didn't give up all other interests except my family to hunt, I still have an interest in my job and in my house. Oh, I'm sorry those aren't interests, those are excuses :eek:. I smell smoke again........

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Saying someone puts deer hunting in front of Family is total BS also.

I am in the same boat as you:) I do not garden[:'(]

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Bingo Bruce. This is what I mean, these things aren't excuses.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

I don't believe I said that.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Saying "having some else raise your kids or their mother" means what than?

Sometimes it is not about time either. Using the time you have wisley. I hunt as much as you guys, but I try to put the time I have by hunting the "Right Time".

In October when it is 75 degrees I stay home with the family. Desire does not always = time.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Plenty of room for you anytime buddy. We have a huge home and would be glad to have you!! Good luck getting drawn and keep in touch. I mean it with the invite.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

It means if your children don't live with you then you have much more free time for hunting.

And yes, sometimes it isn't about the amount of time but how you use it. That is why I save my vacation for hunting. Except for the vacation time spent with my family, the rest is used to hunt days that will hopefully be productive.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

WOW![:-] This topic has took off huh?

In my world the top Priorities are God, Family and then Hunting.

1. If not for the blessings from god, I would not have anything....nuff said!

2. Family covers a lot.I am the sole provider for my wife and my little girl. Ican'tonly make choices based on what I alone want. I have to consider the 2 ladies in my life inevery decision I make.:D What gets effected by this? Everything....not just hunting. Less money because my wife and I decided that her staying home withour child was more important than anything that the extra $$ could provide from her working.

Rather than limit my hunting time, I eliminated basically everything else that I used to do or spend my money on. My wife has also made similar sacrifices.....

No more............Two4 day trips to Bristol TN each year to watch em race @ roughly $400.00 per trip........no more new Bow every other year............no more buying a new gun every year..............no new ATV, Truck, Camper or Boat.

No, I do not have these new things to enjoy, but I have the most important things covered.......

I can hunt with my old Bow/Gun.....both are still killin deer. I can still ride my old ATV to carry em out of the woods...... and I can use my re-built 2003 Trailblazer to get it all back home. The camper and boat are not missed too much because I spend most of my summers now planning my hunts and hanging stands.....;)

At the end of the day I don't feel like I have sacrificed anything for hunting. I sacrificed other things for my family and that's OK with me.

As for work......all I can say is that it does get in the way from Oct to Dec. every year!

Lighten up fellas! Hunting is supposed to be fun!

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Reasons and excuses are two different things. If I see something as a reason and I'm not whining about thatsomething why must it be seen as an excuse? EDIT: I don't blame anyone else for what they shoot. No matter the size if it was taken fair chase, if it was canned, well that is another can of worms. So if I don't point fingers at folks for shooting big deer why must a finger be pointed at me for lacking the desire to make the sacrifices needed to kill big deer.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

good point

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

You're bunking with me in KY:D

When I don't score a buckyear I took the job withCabelas was no one's fault but my own. I knew all my time was going to be eating up. I made the choice, I did not have to take the job. I simple say I did not get the job done. I only blame me, not the amount of time I put in, just me.

Ok I have to get back to work.

Burbaust I totally understand where you are coming from, but think the point is being mis-understood. Just what I think.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

No spooning Germ and I don't care how cold it is!!!!!! :D

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

OK, I want to take this topic in a slightly different direction if I may.
Of those who have read my book, did anyone get the underlying message that I tried to convey that it is paople (family and friends) that makes hunting special? I get a little irritated when it is suggested that I sacrificed time from my family to chase big bucks. If you have a copy of the book please read pages 6,16&17, 206&207then maybe you will better understand me and see why I have taken the stance that I have. Look at how I started the book and how I ended it. Someone pelase check that out and then report back to everyone else.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

I haven't read the book. I may as I find you to be well written and concise. My comments are based stricktly on what I have read in this thread. I am not taking any sides here. I am just interjecting my views and opinions.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Wow Don..........you're really making friends fast around here

I wonder why it is you say stuff like the above quote and then the following when your book indicates otherwise.


I respect the nod to gave to family and buddies who passed on but if you are gonna say something in print you should stand by it.

A better quote to read is on page 132 where you tell everyone that their goal should reflect the time they are willing to sacrifice from from other activities including work and family.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

:D You are too funny, I hope 47 gets here quick for you;) Than what will you say:D

Don I understand what you are saying, now I have a date with my daughter. Were buying Turkey Gear tonight for her.Our first hunting trip together is next week;)

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

I did get your message Mr. Higgins, on family and friends while hunting,and fully understand it. My fiance has gone out into the woods with me many times over and they all out rank my best buck kills just because she was there. They still remain that way today.

The people I have met along the way, while hunting, have been amazing. I luckily get to hunt with long time high school friend HNI Justin every year, which is always a good time. Hunting has introduced me to Todd Graf, our fearless leader, who has become a friend since HNI started in 1995! The first time we hung out was opening day that same year when we hunted alongside each other. Last year I introduced another long time friend, Jeremy, to bow hunting and this will be his second season at it.

I didn't need your book to tell me what I already knew.. but I got the message when reading it Don.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

He can't...........but he CAN tell me how he sneaks into his.......what time?, what direction?, any wind or certain wind only?, uphill or down?, slow stalking walk......or just get in as fast and quiet as you can??.......what does he do if he bumps a deer??......when does he go back?? What time of season??......any weather?.....stay all day or get in and get out??.......are his setups looking into the bedding area or focused on the edges?.......what part of the bedding are fringe??......focus on exit routes, food, cover..........ANYTHING that I could put into play when I hit the woods. Most guys know WHAT to do........a little help of HOW to do it better is what we really need.


Yes..........I showed one to you.........great subject though (one he didn't even mention in his book). Does he start here and identify what he THINKS are bedding areas and then confirms it on foot??.........or does he glass for deer movement and then go back to the maps and combine the info for a better analysis??..........How the heck does he KNOW for sure that a big buck is bedding in there and not just a bunch of what he calls "lesser" deer?? I also hate when people say they can't pattern big bucks but then go on to tell you how they set up outside their bedding area...........IMO if you KNOW where a buck is bedding each morning then you have him patterned (not completely........but a darn good start).


I do............I showed you that on the topo map we discussed........that is another great question...........what if the bedding area is not on your land??.........then what is plan B???



I'm not looking for anyone to hold my hand and do all the hard work for me...........just tangible, useful tips that I can't readily employ in the woods if I so choose.............like the Eberhart books we talked about, they differentiated what they consider a primary scrape area from a scrape line and then they add in more terrain to the puzzle and show you (with map examples) of where to TRY to set up based on the info you find out scouting............THAT WAS GREAT........it gave people some info maybe they didn't already realize they were seeing AND it showed how to take that info and make a game plan out of it. Will it work???.........who the heck knows and maybe it's bad advice.........but at least I can read it, learn something new, understand it.........then go out and APPLY it to my hunting regimen. If it works GREAT, if not maybe I learn something else along the way.........EITHER way I have another tool in the shed.


I don't want a word for word.........step by step treasure map with a big X on it..........just some helpful SPECIFIC hints and tips I can actually apply to see if they make a difference.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Whatever I want to..........but "Welcome to retirement" sounds pretty good to me ;)

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Maryland has a bunch of big bucks. Especially the Eastern Shore. Problem being that most of the land is private property and people want you to pay to hunt their land. There are places where I used to hunt in PA that used to have huge bucks but the land was sold or it's on no hunting property. The farm land they used to go onto, that I hunted, was bought out and made into a developement. Haven't seen any of the big bucks around there since.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

It has some and yes, they're on the Eastern Shore. Not in the mountains or where most of us hunt. Land access is a real bummr on the Eastern shore. Even the public land is in many cases on a sign up register and no more than two such sign ups at a time. It's really tough in a situation like that. The places are full every day and you can't work a pattern or anything because you may not get in for another couple weeks. That's after driving 2 or 3 hours to get there if you get in. There are a few decent bucks killed every year, but not a BUNCH. Most of us here in Maryland hunt 5 acre to 50 acre patches. Many of the big bucks killed every year come from someones yard backing up to a state park where no hunting is allowed.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Hey Atlas, I fully understand that in your eyes the book sucks. I think everyone else understands your position as well. That does not bother me nor would it if you all thought it sucks.

My issue at this time is that people are somehow getting the notion that I promote taking time from family to chase big bucks. I thought my book clearly emphasized the importance of family and friends ABOVE hunting. I started the book with that theme and ended it with that same idea. It is the other things in life, our hobbies if you will, that I am suggesting MAY be preventing SOME hunters from tagging the class of buck that they desire. (also our jobs and financial commitments) Heck I also say that if you are happy with what you are killing then GREAT! it is your life, have fun ... just dont make excuses or belittle others who have made sacrifices in terms of OTHER INTERESTS (not family)to devote more time to hunting.

Oh and Atlas, by the flood of personal messages that I have gotten over the past 3 days I think you may have already won a scholarship to the class that I am paying tuition for .... "MakingFriends on the Internet 101"

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

That's a shame..........I would think you would care if everyone thought your book sucked.


How do you explain the statement on page 132 I mentioned??


That's funny..........cause the PM's I have gotten tell a different story ;)

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

Okay, can you all hear me from my high pedestal here where the P&Y's are tripping over each other to come by my setup:D, Let me colaborate a little on the point I was trying to make. I arrowed a P&y the 3rd yr I bowhunted(strictly luck) then went for a drought that lasted almost 20 YEARS. Yes almost 20 yrs here where there's one under every rock. Then I consciously made the choice to sacrafice other stuff that I enjoyed and focus on the pursuit of a decent buck. I ate a few more tags, while passing on young deer that i would normally be happy zipping an arrow through, but then things started to change, plans started to come together, my style of hunting evolved and I started to reap the benefits. I t is now 6 years later and I've taken 7 bucks that will score over the P& Y minimum. It's not that there weren't any good bucks here for my long dry spell, I just didn't have the desire, passion, or whatever you call it to sit out in the woods from daylight to dark, through pouring rain, freezing cold, other hunters tripping over me, etc,, to get the job done. Every single day of the year i think about deer hunting. It may be as simple aslooking for deer while driving down the road or shed hunting or scouting, anything that might tip me off to a big buck. I'm by no means rich, I work full time and them some building scaffold, help my father farm, I burn fire wood year round, and I still find plenty of time for my family of 4 childern and my wife and am still able to hunt quite a bit. During the heat of summer, I pick anywhere from 100 -130 gallons of black berries to provide for my hunting endeavors, so as not to spend any of our "regular" money and take away from my family's financial needs.We budget our money so that I am able to take off as much work as I can afford during hunting season. My wife is very understanding, and she too has a great desire to pursue big bucks. When I say that i hunt quite a bit would be an understatement compared to what most others hunt. The year before last I logged ~500 hours in the woods, last year I had to work more and was only able to hunt around 300 hours. When I'm not working, hunting is my "job". I by no means find it easy and sometimes it's not all that enjoyable, but that's just fuel for my fire.
I do realize that there are some exceptions, like the guys that hunt in florida and other places of the like, that there is a limited #(if any)ofP&Y deer. but that doesn't mean that there is no hope. I believe that age grows bigger antlers, so by letting a buck that you would normally shoot go for a year or two, he is going to grow a lot more in inches. I know what most would now say, "Well around here, if I don't shoot him so and so over there will" I know this because that is what I used to say. Ive long since kicked that motto to the curb. I've been hunting public land and have nice young bucks stroll by that another hunter was also watching, and they would always be shocked that i didn't shoot it. Obviously not everyone would do that, but that to is one of the sacrafices that I've learn to make. Realistically, odds are that the guy over there will never have the opportunity to shoot the deer that you've just passed on. And there are even higher odds that you will ever see that deer again. that is just a chance that you have to be willing to take.
I dunno, Ive kind of lost track of what I was wanting to get across, but just want to note that EVERYONE goes through a learning curve and progression in their hunting careers, some just get stuck in some phases longer than others, some may never reach the pinnacle, I know that i have a long way to go, but feel that I'm on the right track. Also, there is no sure fire method, no magic call or scent that is going to do it for you. A lot of hard work, effort, and yes, sacrafices are necessary to move to the next level of progression.
As a sidenote, I only use the term P&Y because it is a common reference, I value the age of a buck a lot more than the inches on it's head.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

No offense to the poster but please,you are from central Illinois.To make a blanket statement such as you have is not realistic for those of us that do not live in such prolific area's.You cannot kill what is not there and for someone else to assume they know some one else's woods and what is possible there is a bit on the arrogant side.If 25% of your buck population would make Pope and Young and 2% of mine would who has a more realistic chance of killing a qualifier given equal amounts of time spent in the effort to take such an animal.
There is no one in my area who consistently kills bucks that score over 115 with bow or rifle and I know and am friends with or am acquantainces with the most dedicated hunters in my area.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

I hate to burst your bubble, but there really aren't that many P& Y deer here. Out of the 300 hours i hunted last season, i saw a grand total of 5 bucks that would make the cut off. 2 of which I killed. I worked extremely hard to get these deer. There are 11 other people who hunt in the same general area that i do and there mature buck harvest number was 0. So please tell them how easy it is to tag one in Illinois. I don't think I'm some super hunter, i'm just saying that i try much harder than most and it has been paying off for me. By the way, I went to Kansas and hunted public ground that i had never seen before and was able to put a tag on a 5 yr old 8 pter on day # 6. He was the only big buck I saw while hunting.

RE: Why do people think it's supposed to be so easy?
 

That's what I'm finding out from talking to people.