Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

After reading an article in this month's issue of Bow&Arrow Huntingthat talked about understanding mature bucks, I thought I would find out what the majority of HNI's hunters thought.

Granted, caution is something that is learned to a degree, are mature deer mature because they've learned to be that cautious or were they born with the traits that make them cautious?

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

Both. They're cautious and non trusting by nature, and the more experiences they have growing up only enforce that. They're all different, from what I can gather, they have their own "attitudes and personalities" and that is largely due to their experiences....

But what do I know.....I can't kill one anyway....[&o]

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

Deer Season can not get here quick enough and..... Dan you need to lay off the shrooms dude. You have got way too much time on your hands. LOL:D

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

Yep, i pretty much agree. They deffinately learn more every year

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

Like mobow said, I think its a combo of both. Deer being prey must always be alert, and almost paranoid to a point. Now, I believe there are some deer that a more cautious then others, which I feel is something that maybe their mother showed them as fawns, and as fawns they do whatever their mom does.
Genetics= common prey traits
Learned= traits learned as fawn from their mother(more alert then your average deer).
Then again, I'm really tired right now, so this may sound stupid when I wake up in the morning and reread what I wrote.lol[8D]Plus I gotta wake up early to go striper fishing!!!

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

I think a deer's"caution" is dependant on several factor's, for example, here in E. Central IL, we have several county and State parks, that have deer that will not even move if you are riding a bike, jogging, or whatever else you may be doing. But these are high traffic areas, and they seem to know they are safe. Then you take your normal private ground 5 miles down the road from these parksand deerseem to be on High Alert.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

Something to consider, this article defined a mature deer as being 4.5 years old and older.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

I've thought about it some more, and while I don't recend my previous, I believe what is learned to be more of a factor than what they are born with....

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

Lets not forget being raised by cautious does probably had some impact to. But surviving some hunter encounters at an early age would most certainly wise up any (deer)

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

In my opinion.. it's like this..

Caution is part of a trait.. a survival trait that is deeply etched into the minds of all living creatures. Whether it is a human or a deer we all have this trait.

When a buck survives to become mature (at 3.5 or older) he has just naturally seen more than the other deer. Thus, he is wiser.. and has more experience which gives him more brains (loosely stated). Are some bucks smarter than others... absolutely. Some humans are smarter than others, some dogs are smarter than others.. etc. etc. Some humans are more cautious than others, some cats are more cautios than others etc. etc.

Caution is a natural form of survival. An older deer who has been hunted for years knows the ropes.. and has been there and done that. His experience has taught him when and how to be cautious. The trick is beating him to the punch!:)

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

I would say alot of caution is learned as they get older but deer just like turkeys have some genetic trats at birth.
A fawn knows right away to be still and motionless at any sign of danger just as a three or four day old plout knows how fly up into low hanging limbs.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

I would say that so much is bred in them but they get fine tuned over the years of hunting pressure.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

so, is it the buck, or doe (or both) who carries the "smart gene" and passes it on?? I often hear of killing the smart does, are they smart because they're educated? or because they're born smart??Great Question Washington Hunter, wish i knew the answer.

But it also got me thinking, I'm a fawn (see left)...my parents are smart, and passed down the gene:eek:...but reading this forum for two (plus) years, i've learned much more (also learned from expieriances)..so my vote is for both :D[8D]..........kp

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

I believe that it takes a little bit of both here. There are whitetail bucks out there that will never grow huge racks. That's just how it is, the genetics just aren't superior. This has been proven by ranches all around the U.S. Deer are at the point now where they are being genetically engineered (to a degree). Why do you think people "cull" bucks. So much emphasis is placed on killing bucks with inferior genetics to get them out of the heard these days it's become an overwhelming debate in many hunting circles. But then again, bucks don't just get big all because of their genetics. Mature bucks in my neck of the woods get big because they have great genetics, and they have the ability to alude the hunters in the area. Most of the mature bucks shot in my area are smart, and it's tough to kill one because there just aren't that many around. The guys who really know their stuff in our area, generally get one opportunity at a mature deer in a year. ONE opportunity...and that's because the bucks here are tough to hunt. I'm not saying they're not in any of your guys' neck of the woods, don't get me wrong. My conclusion is that big bucks get that way because they've got great genetics, and they've learned how to avoid hunters. My 2 cents.

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I agree that it is both a inherent AND learned trait. They continue to learn more every year. Dam smart critters!!! The thing they learn sooner than I want them to is that NOCTURNAL thing. Dam smart critters!!!

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This thread just makes me ponder more and more why people believe that there's a HUGE difference between hunting does and bucks.

The doe gets FAR less credit than she deserves. She's no less smart (in my opinion) than her male counterpart...if we're talking same age structure.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

I'd say both with a little luck along the way as the 3rd factor.

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She also has a lot more support and protection since she's rarely alone, it's a lot harder to sneak up on a herd than a loner.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

GMMAT..The main reason does are not thought of as smart, is because they are harder to distinquish, or tell apart from one another. Yes sometimes you can, but most times we don't look at them that closely..it's a doe so we scan for the buck, barely paying her much attention.

We see many doe and they become "dumb" because we keep seeing them..now granted it may be different ones and the big mature doe stays on the edge of cover or right out in the safety of the middle of the field.

What I'm saying is it's not the individual doe that is dumb..it is the re-occurance of seeing doe..that leads us to believe they are less wise.

We'll still think your a swell hunter when you whack 20 doe next year..you don't have to keep defending how cagey they are! :D

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LOL...GR8. :D

I'm hunting does for one reason, this Fall. They need thinning. I'm not going to distinguish between the mature ones or otherwise. They'll be easier to kill......due to the numbers. I'm not fooloing myself with ANYTHING to the contrary.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

Deer become smarter(learn)for one reason.

Bubba hunter who sends arrows or bullets over their backs;)

They learn to be more cautions as they get shot at a few times[8D]

If your neighbor uses Tinks 69 and a nice 2.5 smells it for the first and goes to check it out. Your neighbor sends one over his back giving him a shave job. Does anyone think that deer is going to come in to tinks 69 again?

Caution is a learn trait when dealing with us(IMO), and some of us do a great job in teaching the deer what to look for;)

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

Experience= increased caution. Like GERM said I think a mature buck will have more lessons to have learned form as he gets older. A 4.5 year old has had 4 hunting seasons of lessons. Luck getting through the first 2 are a big part IMO.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

Not much to contribute beyond what has already been said.The amount of exposure or pressure the animals get will also dictate how freely they move.Even within that there are some questions.I hunt certain area's or walk them often enough that I think(know) the doe groups are used to me.They either know I will not bother them or can't hit them.:DThey provide me a lot of slack and there have been a number of bucks I have taken because of it.
Deer with aggressive personalities don't live very long.Unless where their range is is so desolate they don't run into folks like us.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

I'm going with about 90% learned and 10% instinct. The reason for this is that if you take a fawn from it's mother at a very yong age at first it will be heistant to associate with you, but in short order when it understands that you aren't a threat it will be very different. If you take a 3 year old deer and do the same thing, the results will be nowhere near the same, while the only difference is that one has "learned" to be cautious through everyday activities and watching other deer...

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

Here is the question we have to ask ourselves, and I bet we all have ask it.

When we are watching a hunting show on one of "those" ranches and we see the hunter/shooter(for you Atlas) do something and we say "If I would have done _____? The deer would have been gone". It might not even be a buck.

I watch guy on a ranch in Nebraska drop his quiver with a 160 class 15 yds away. The buck look right up at him and kept coming. The dude missed, LOL

Instinct would tell the deer, "Hey quivers fallingand a large dude in a tree is bad thing".
In MI the quiver would have made it half way down, and the deer would be half way to OH[8D]

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

I do. Matter of fact my buddy shot over a 3.5 year old bucks back that came into tinks 69. The next morning he was back and didn't make out so well on the second time around. Beautiful 3.5 year old 8 pointer.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

You use Tinks 69:D

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I do............. think a buck will come back to tinks 69 [:-]:eek:Is that better for ya?

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

bucks like humans learn and adapt they arent bred with caution they learn it

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

Consistently I would say no, anything can happen in the woods. How is that:D

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Peachy ;)

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You killing a deer is proof of that.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

They are born with a certain degree but i can tell you it is alot easier to kill a 1 or 2 year old than a mature buck so that must say they learn it too as they get older and more mature.

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

My thoughts exactly .... not bad Oneshot ..... for a Team Thunderstrut guy [8D]

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You missing one is too:D

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They reach maturity by letting the little ones grow into big ones!Let'em go let'em grow!!!!

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hey hey preach that is only turkey hunting i know a lil bit about some deer lol

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

I personaly think that it is genetic. If you consider that deer in the big woods ie. wilderness areas. where the deer may have very limited or no contact with humans let alone hunters are still very cautous. One whiff of human scent and they will still bolt. So with little or no human contact this leeds me to belive this is a genetic trait because at what piont would have the learned this.

Good Hunting
Jeff

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LOL .... I thought I did too ... till I joined this website ...

RE: Bucks; How they reach maturity
 

lol i am the same way with turkeys i know some but not alot i knew most of the stuff about deer when i joined but the bowhunting forum helped me tremendusly with bows i knew nothing at all about them. i am gettin better at it and now know that hunting sign for deer isnt the best you got to pattern them right now i got a big un patterend behind my house he comes out at dark and goes back at dark and beds the rest of teh time[:'(]lol