Drive hunters
 

I know a lot of people think drive hunts are ethical. I personally not only don't like them but don't hunt with anyone that thinks it's ethical. I'm not talking about a soft push hunt where you put gentle pressure on the deer. I remember after this season why I gave up deer hunting for 25 years. As a bow hunter keen on taking high percentage shots, the drive gun hunts break all of those rules. You don't get a standing shot on deer. The ones I saw here in IA this week were shooting on average 200 yards with shotguns at deer running full tilt. Not only that but they decimate an area and educate every deer in miles to go nocturnal. They screw the hunts up for everyone else that values fair chase. Most of these deer were either running directly away (butt shot) or quartering to the blockers. Most of the hunting (I use that term loosely) parties were 10 or more individuals. Safety is a bigger issue. These small woodlots almost guarentee you shoot toward each other. I am thoroughly disgusted at what I witnessed and worse to hear the bragging about wounding deer and leaving them for a couple hours because "they weren't going anywhere." There were at least 6 instances where i heard people bragging that they hit deer 4 or 5 times in non vitals areas but had slowed them down enough to finally get them later. How many do they not get. I saw a blocker shoot at 3 running does and he and his party looked for blood for exactly 25 seconds. I was stand hunting while I witnessed all this on one piece of land. If you aren't willing to hunt deer by putting in the scouting, applying the ethics in fair chase, and taking only high percentage shots, then get out of our beloved pasttime!

THWACK!

RE: Drive hunters
 

Amen Thwack. I know what you mean. I've seen it here too. Not to that extent though. Thank god! Next year, you come hunt over at my place. No drive hunts on my 80 acres. And the drive hunts on the other properties just push the deer right to my timber.

KEEP IT LEGAL. KEEP IT SAFE. OR WE MAY NOT GET TO KEEP IT AT ALL.

RE: Drive hunters
 

Where have I seen this topic before????<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

I think I'll pass!




&quot;Semper Fi&quot;

RE: Drive hunters
 

I don't want to get into the debate of drives being ethical vs. unethical; although I do have my opinions. I do get a little frustrated trying to bow hunt after the firearms season has passed because the deer patterns completely change and the deer are on high alert for a long time after. However, I get 2 months before firearms season with my bow to fill my tag and things do tend to settle down a little in the 1 1/2 months of bow season that follows. My main concern with drives is the safety issue. I'm surprised there aren't more people getting hurt, or worse. I think that for the sake of our sport, we're fortunate that there aren't more incidents caused by these types of hunts. This is the first year I've gun hunted and the only reason I went out is because I felt a little safer knowing I was the only one on the 150 acres I'm hunting.

RE: Drive hunters
 

Go for it guys,the anti's love it.

No one that puts on a drive is a true hunter because you say so.What a load af bull feces.

RE: Drive hunters
 

I have and will continue to drive deer! Just because you saw a couple yahoos tossing lead dont paint all of us with the same brush! If it is not on properety you have exclusive permission to be on, you have nothing to say about what people do!

We are even planning a 10-12 man drive the week between x-mas and new years,, with archery equipment(that must really make your blood boil). We want to fill our groups last tags(oh and we party hunt too,, that must get under your skin too!)

RE: Drive hunters
 

You can't label all people that drive hunt, there is always a few bad apples. I drive hunt with my friends and others, and we get standing shots, and have yet to loose a deer due to distance or running(lost one this year, standing shot at 70 yards, just terrible shot placement)...and as for driving with a bow, I took a nice old 9-point last year on the last day, driven and a perfect double lung shot.

Shots that are True....Pass right Through!!!

RE: Drive hunters
 

I have a Drury video at home that has the Drury's and some friends reverting to &quot;old time&quot; tactics to harvest some deer. Yep , they did a deer drive! Damn those unethical Drury's!

<---Doug---<<<

RE: Drive hunters
 

I spend 99 % of my time dwelling in the treetops. However, you're painting with an awfully wide brush. There are a lot of gun hunters that say we bowhunters are the ones doing all the wounding. They've heard a couple stories about some yahoo wounding 4 or 5 and never getting one or found one with an arrow in it. Do you want them to paint you with the same brush? Same arguement.... different weapon. Deer drives are a way of life in a lot of Northern states and provinces. It's a very effective way of getting deer. If done properly the shots are usually taken at unaware and relaxed deer getting out of the way of some guy trying to creep through the woods like a shadow. I've driven and taken deer with the bow on drives. Not these barking, make noise like a pack of hounds drives. When the drive is over and the hunters have left it's not unusal to see deer in the same woods going about life as normal. Charlie P summed it up pretty well...&quot; The antis love it&quot;.

RE: Drive hunters
 

What defines a &quot;drive&quot; and a &quot;gentle push&quot; may very from person to person. I've been on some little drives, and really I didn't get amazing results. Usually I don't even see any deer, and when I do it's just little does. Some good drives that are well planned out, with thought given to safety will normally produce good results. Standing shots are normal.

&quot;Hey ya'll, watch this&quot;

RE: Drive hunters
 

Thanks David! Being that the Drury's were a hot topic already this week , I thought I'd try the sarcasm approach.<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Drive hunters
 

well in IA in one weekend 1 was killed and three were wounded driving...I gues you'll take care of yourselves eventually.

THWACK!

RE: Drive hunters
 

That's a little harsh Thwack<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>. Not tasteful.

The guys I know who are really into it were raised that way.

RE: Drive hunters
 

Thwack, I noticed on another thread you use mech broadheads and only pull 53 pounds.Did you know that under what many companies consider the minumum for mechs.What is your KE on your set up.

In the near future I’m afraid my son will ask me ”Dad why is it we can’t hunt anymore?” Well Son I tell you why. Because we couldn’t decide whom the “Real Hunters” were. The hunters we did ourselves in. The traditional guys told the compound shooters they weren’t “real hunters” they needed training wheels and sights. The Compound hunters told the Trads. you shouldn’t be allowed to hunt. You shoot your arrows all over the place and wound more then you kill. We argued about it until we were blue in the face and the wedge was being driven in. All that we could decide was Crossbow hunters just don’t fit in. Their not “real hunters.” their Bows are always cocked that takes no skill of grace. Who do they think their fooling we can’t let them in. We need to keep hunting to the “Real Hunters” is what we said, and the wedge just kept getting pounded in.

Before you knew it we hunters were fighting all over the place. ”REAL HUNTERS” don’t use rifles, range finders or hunt over bait! They don’t use scents, or run deer with dogs or use drives no “real Hunter” would resort to that. They never go on guided hunts or take a long shot at game. WE decided that “real hunters” don’t wear scent loc suits or high tech camo or ride an ATV into their tree stands. We decided that high fences, ranches and leasing land were in no way connected to “REAL HUNTING” we decided that shouldn’t take place .The wedge was all the way in.

After the smoke had cleared and “WE” helped pass laws to Ban every type of hunting that wasn’t “REAL HUNTING”, we realized there was no more hunting at all. We got what we asked for we have no one but ourselves to blame.

Be careful what you ask for,you just might get it

I drive woods with some very good hunters.A couple of these guys have killed more big bucks with the bow,then I have even seen.We use drives late season as a tool.It's very effective especially for taking does out,which is what we shoot 90% of the time.Our buck tags are usually filled by then.It sounds like you were around a group of jerks,why you would stay in a tree with that much lead flying around confuses me.

Edited by - Charlie P on 12/13/2002 08:37:07

Edited by - Charlie P on 12/13/2002 08:50:50

RE: Drive hunters
 

THWACK as others have already said I will repeat, do not label all drive hunters as slobs or unsafe, that is the same as labeling all bowhunters slobs because someone took a crappy shot, wounded a deer that wound up dead 3 days later.

I grew up in the Northern Neck of Va., and participated in an awful lot of drives, heck we even hunted with dogs! We always planned every drive, exactly who was driving and where, who was standing and where, most of our shots were on standing deer, some at walking ones. How can that be you ask?

Well when it was people driving, the drivers did not hoot and holler on the drive, they slowly made their ways back and forth towards the standers, the deer moved, but did not panic.

How in the world did you do drives with dogs and still get standing/walking shots? Well we always used short leg beagles and only used them in large tracts of swamp or thickets. The standers were at a considerable distance from where the dogs were put in and as a result the deer when first jumped would run hard for 100-200 yards and then proceed to mosey on to either slip the dogs or head to the standers.

Oh but people who do drives or use dogs do not do any scouting! WRONG! I do not do drives or hunt in front of dogs any more, but I can tell you right now, that these boys I hunted with spent a lot of time scouting and they knew where the deer where, when they put on a drive you can bet your sweet rear end there were deer.

THWACK there are slobs in every style of hunting, but they are in the minority, the drivers you were exposed to where slobs, just like you see an occasional slob show up here talking about taking 70 yard hail Mary shots! Do not call an entire form of hunting style as slovenly, it is not true.

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club

RE: Drive hunters
 

I certainly see no fun, excitement, sense of pride or sport in doing &quot;drives&quot; like this, although I can see the value as a systematic method of thinning the deer population and increasing the scavenger population. I don't know why guys like this don't just go to the grocery store and buy a side of beef and some beer and fire up the bbcue. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Yes, perhaps there are a few &quot;well planned&quot; and &quot;strategic&quot; drives that are put on somewhere in the country but most gunners I know scare me and some are very highly educated people but have no common sense when it comes to hunting. I think most good bow hunters make great gun hunters. Not to throw another log in the fire <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle> but how about the fact that Milo Hansen's monster buck was taken via a drive like the one mentioned above. A group of gun hunting's finest dogged this beast to it's ultimate demise...what a shame.

RE: Drive hunters
 

Wolfen, did you ever find that buck you shot with the bow this year or did it feed scavengers?

A read a story about &quot;trophy hunters&quot; that just cut off the head and left the rest to rot. I guess all the hunters who pursue big racks are that way.etc. etc. etc.

We do make it easy for the anti groups to combat our life style.When they try and have a form of hunting banned they can use direct qoutes from within our own ranks to make us look bad.

Edited by - Charlie P on 12/13/2002 09:36:04

RE: Drive hunters
 

You keep saying its unethical to drive deer. Go to my uncles deer camp, then tell me it is unethical! There are 3 priests, a deacon, 2 retired principals and a doctor in his camp. They hire Indian guides, and drive with dogs. I dare you to tell anyone of these guys they are unethical in theyre hunting methods!

Edited by - swampthing on 12/13/2002 11:54:51

RE: Drive hunters
 

Swamo, Don't try and dirty up their arguments with facts,it ruins their day. If you don't do it their way your not a &quot;real hunter&quot; what don't you understand.

RE: Drive hunters
 

Tazman, I'm not labeling all drives. Read my original post. &quot;I'm not talking about gently pushed deer.&quot; I watched three seperate drives and witnessed at least 20 shots being fired. No deer were taken and most of the deer were out of range. These guys were hooting and hollering. A slow push IS effective and results in decent shot opportunities that are both safe and humane. My problem are the guys that hit as many places as they can, don't follow up, and hunt without previously stepping into the woods. A gentle push drive doesn't shut down the deer for everyone else. I get tired of seeing deer with their tongues hanging out from running from one tract to another. People reading this should know that if you're the type that only gives a crap about getting your group their quota of deer and screw everyone else, then yes I am out to offend because they offend me. I believe we owe something to the animals we hunt and a certian amount of fairness is in ordera as we are supposed to be the ones to be able to reason. Most of the guys and gals on this site are ethical, I see it in your posts everyday. I'm venting at those SOBs that I see far too often. Like I said I quit deer hunting for 25 years and nothing has changed as far as I can see. I'm even living 5 states away from where I started and I get the same sick feeling. My 10 year old son witnessed that on his first season and felt so sorry for the deer he asked me if we could go home, he wouldn't go back out after that first morning. Out of the mouth of babes....

THWACK!

RE: Drive hunters
 

As a fellow Iowa hunter I fully agree. Iowa really needs to take a lok at the gun season and make adjustments. I believe that Iowa forces gun huters to drive deer due to the very short season that is offered.

I primarly bow hunt but like to take advantage of the shot gun season. What I seen on Satuday was CRAZY! For over eight hours there was constant shooting. I was in my blind in witnessed over 40 deer driven onto my farm.

The most concerning sceen was the number of deer that I seen was wounded. I was forced to shoot a small doe that was driven in. She was shot twice in the left hind quarter leaving her basically crippled in the rear in. I shot her out of mercy as this was a defastating sceen. I also seen two other deer that were wounded including a quality buck 8-10 points.

I had at least 10 hunters come onto my private property and crossed my land. 3 at no less than 5 yards. I am personally afraid to confront a poacher carrying a loaded shot gun!

I have been envolved in many drives myself, however the group I have been involved with always took decent shots at close distances. I know this is not the case for most hunters that come out the opening day of Iowa shot gun season.

As for hunting with my bow the rest of the season, I am afraid that the remaining deer in the area have gone nocturnal. I also think that if they can survive that slaughter they deserve to live another year.

I would not want to be a deer on opening day of shot gun season in Iowa.

RE: Drive hunters
 

Charlie P, the answer to your question is no, I never did find the monster buck I wounded this year and I'm open to receive any attacks and finger pointing by anyone who wishes to give it. I do get your point. Labeling is dangerous and destructive. However, sir, my post was directly in reference to the specific situation observed by and posted by THWACK. You yourself referred to the guys as &quot;jerks&quot;.

RE: Drive hunters
 

I just got an e-mail from my wife. I guess I have to eat some crow here. She hit a huge buck this morning with her car....so I guess if my wife is &quot;drive&quot; hunting I either need to shut up or file for divorce. Charlie P I'm fairly new to this site and just assume that people posting here are ethical hunters or they wouldn't care enough to post here and participate. I'm am merely venting over the people that DON&quot;T have those ethics, not attacking anyone here. When I get a nasty sarcastic post i reply in kind but I really don't mean to offend anyone here. The people I am talking about deer hunt 2 weekends a year and go home. As for my mechs, I went with what the pro shop suggested and have taken 3 deer, all at very close range from the ground. One went 40 yards, the second 30 yards and the last 100 yards shot in the heart. The setup has worked well even though I don't get pass through. New bow is on lay away for next season.

THWACK!

RE: Drive hunters
 

THWACK

I don't think that you need to apologize to anyone. Invite them to Iowa on opening week-end of shotgun season in Iowa. I gaurente it will make any ethical hunter ill.

RE: Drive hunters
 

Usually when you guys get started on these debates, I bow out. But I think Shaggy might have stumbled on to something here. Why don't we Iowa hunters all send a email to the Iowa DNR suggesting that they change their shotgun seasons around so that the leadheads don't feel so pressured to shot anything that moves. Perhaps instead of 2 split seasons, give them one 3 week season in December during the second rut. I got to thinking about this after reading all the posts on this thread. I feel the leadheads are driving so much because they've only got 6 days to fill their tag in the first season. And only 8 days in the second. Plus they can't use a first season tag on the second season if it's not filled. I think it would be beter to give them 1 full season and then they could buy 1 tag for the entire season and wouldn't be in such a hurry to fill it. Most of these guys have jobs and can't hunt whenever they want. If we gave them 1 full season then maybe they could schedule vacation time for it and take more time to learn to hunt the way we do. Just a thought. How are the gun seasons set up in other states? Anyone?

KEEP IT LEGAL. KEEP IT SAFE. OR WE MAY NOT GET TO KEEP IT AT ALL.

RE: Drive hunters
 

THWACK first let me say I am sorry to hear your wife joined the ranks of non-hunter drive killers. I hope she wasn't injured.

I hope I did not come off to strong in my first reply, when I read your original post some of your statements do kind of lump all drive hunters as unethical, if I went overboard on that I am sorry.

The post that Charlie P made was excellent in regards to what could concievably happen to hunting if we as hunters, no matter the method, start deciding what form of hunting is unethical. The gentleman who allowed me to bow hunt his property this season is a life time gun hunter and told me flat out that he really didn't like bow hunters because of the number of dead deer he has found on his place that were shot by bowhunters that did not recover them. It took me over an hour to convince him that I was not &quot;that kind of bowhunter&quot; before he gave me permission to hunt his land.

I agree that when someone or group is doing what you mentioned they are slobs and unethical, but we need to all be aware that some methods of hunting have been going on here in the US for generations and in reality amny of the people who did in the past hunt with dogs and drives for years with guns are also the people responsible for the hunting we enjoy today. They are the people that pushed both the federal and state governments to enact and enforce game laws that would allow the white tail and all other game species we hunt today to thrive in the numbers they do today. We bow hunters owe the hunting we enjoy today to the men and women who hunted with guns, dogs and drives years ago.

We all need to realize that as long as the kills are clean, quick and legal, they are ethical, even though it may be a method we do not like personally.

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Drive hunters
 

Budbowhunter, you may be onto something. I know Michigan where I'm originally from the season is 2 weeks but at peak rut. I agree the gun enhusiasts have a right to hunt. I opened a can of worms, then got pissed when I was attacked for getting irate over a mere 30 or so slob hunters last weekend. I know they feel pressure to get their deer. I just don't understand people that take hail mary shots at running deer. If you want to drive hunt and can get a shot on a standing deer, or walking even. Great! Even a runniing deer at close range is a fairly good shot. But what I saw was 200 yard shots where they emptied the magazine and fumbled to reload for the next wave. I don't advocate banning drives. But driving deer hard seems counterproductive to getting a decent shot on a deer. When pushed slow they tend to stand to see what it is they hear, and there they offer a good shot. As far as all this about the anti's love all this. They see these massive drives and the results too so I'm not aiding them in pointing out that we can pressure these type of hunters to at least be sane. We don't hae large timber areas here, so deer have to travel a long ways to get to the next cover. These guys didn't have permission and continued to drive when challenged because I couldn't stop all of them. I'm not a politically correct type of guy. If I think it needs to be said I'll say it. Comes from 18 years in the Air Force I guess. I just regre that my son witnesses all this when it's totally contrary to what I try to teach him. If they could hunt during a part of the rut there would probably be less drives like this because the deer would move during the day on their own. But here these drives have becaome tradition and from what I have seen they are basically done the same way, get them running across an open field then try to hit them. Maybe it's a regional thing like a dialect in a language. I actually think with one full gun season a lot more deer would be taken. I know they feel resentment because rut is reserved for bow hunters.

THWACK!

RE: Drive hunters
 

Tazman Point well taken!

THWACK!

RE: Drive hunters
 

Well guys I'll be honest my attitude is a carry over from a thread over on the bowsite on this same subject. What I saw over there was alot of all this all that. I hate that.

My point is yes there are guys that put drives on that are not good for the sport.Just like in every aspect of hunting.Look at what you see on the BB you visit.For every type of hunting there is a nother hunter that will bash it for you.

Thwack,You use a compound and shoot Mechs.right? There are many that think mechs. are the tool of Satan and if you use them your to lazy to tune your bow and unethical.Compounds are just verticle crossbows and they take no skill,not to mention people just take unethical shots with them. Heck your not a real bowhunter because there so easy to use that they don't require you to practice all year round.

Wolfen, You know the arguments that people have against&quot;trophy Hunting&quot;. It is going to ruin the sport because the people that do it lease up all the land. It's not the size of the antlers but the experience you get that's important and how it makes alot of guys unethical.If their only interested in the big rack you know all of them will take long shots etc.All they care about is the head on the wall and that sort of mentatlity leads to poaching.

I just think the anti's love all the bashing we do of each other.We give them all the arguments the use against us,and we wonder why hunting could be ended in our lifetime.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Drive hunters
 

Here goes... I bow hunt and usually have all my deer killed before gun season, but I drive deer here in Ohio w/ 10-13 people. We are precautious as to not have any accidents but as you know you are hunting and there is a chance that you could get shot but you could also fall out of your tree climbing up bowhunting. so there is a risk either way. As to the fact of the guys slinging lead at 200 yds. Our gruoup rarely shoots over 80 yds at a deer and they are usually standing or jogging. This year we killed 10 deer this year in 2 days 6 were at less than 30 yds. standing. 2 were at about 60-65 yds and the lat one was at about 45 full bore running but he put the shot right in the oven. So it is the same as anything else. you have some guys that just go out and shoot anything w/ bow and gun they just wound deer after deer and then you have your ethical hunters. It is just something we have to deal w/ as ethical hunters. to say driving is not fair chase is ridiculous because people can rarely get a big buck to go where they want. just my input.

RE: Drive hunters
 

Thwack, let me give you my take on your original thread. You were mad at a situation and needed to vent and people didn't read into it like you wanted. But I on the other hand knew exactly what you were talking about. When some of you guys have the unethical, trespassing poachers going onto your land to chase a group of deer that they chased from another piece of property an hour earlier that was chased there 2 hours earlier from another piece of land by the same idiots. That guys, is when you will totally understand thwacks post. We watched this for both seasons of slug season in our area. Landowners and authorities were called, but they never seemed to catch them in the act.

When someone puts some thought and safety concerns in prior to their drive and do not trespass, then there is no problem here.

And the statement about gun hunters only getting a small window of time to hunt, tough luck. It is by far in the middle of the rut, and it is in that time of the year for a reason. If you want more time to hunt, pick up a bow. Somebody I know in Wisconsin only gun hunts and found it totally amazing when he had a deer at 10 yards when he was on the ground. I told him, &quot;That is why I bowhunt, you get to interact with the animals.&quot;

So to end this, Thwack I totally feel for you bud, cause you are not alone. Some of these so called hunters is why we can't hunt some farms in my area. But I know that you can't label everyone because of these morons.

I guess I have one more thing.....

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> oh and we party hunt too,, that must get under your skin too!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

If this is legal in your state that is fine. But if it isn't, that gets under my skin!! Why you may ask....that is a whole other tread if you want to know.


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