a/c/c's......
 

I’ve decided to use a/c/c’s for hunting, this year (at least…for turkeys). I suppose all the hoopla has gotten to me. What is it about these arrows that’s supposed to be so good, though. Right now…..it’s a BIG turn-off that I can’t use my Lumenoks with them.

I've had 3 made up and I've shot them a little on the 3D range. Only difference I know, so far, is they're heavier (about 22 gr.) than the X-Weaves I'm currently using.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

Why change? Aren't you happy with the X-weaves? I thought about trying them. I went from ICS Hunters to ACC's after I saw one blow up. Not that that was the only reason. I wanted to try them anyway and that just gave me a push. But the X-weaves seem like they'd be as good as ACC's.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

To be honest.....I had a few made up.....just to try.....and I hate to just let 'em sit around (for what they cost). Maybe I'll just make someone a deal....lol.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

The a/c/c's are very good arrows with excellent spine and straightness tolerances. Are they better than X-weaves? Yes. Will you notice the difference? Probably not.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

LOL, MO.....

If they're better.....I think I just got slammed on!! :D

RE: a/c/c's......
 

The straightness tolerances on the A/C/C's are actually less than theX-weaves.

A/C/C's are a great all around arrow, however a goltip pro hunter is lighter, cheaper, more durable, straighter, and I honestly think the pin nock system is a higher quality component system than the easton system. If lighter isn't a priority for you, then just add more tip weight to get it where you want it and in turn you increase your FOC to come up with more forgiveness with fixed blade heads, windy conditions, etc. I also like the Carbon Express Maxima's as well however they are quite a bit more expensive than pro hunters and don't seem to have any more advantages and I still like pin nocks better than the bulldog collars.

I have spine tested Maxima's, Pro Hunter's, and A/C/C's at the shop on our spine tester and all produced excellent results.......all hadtolerances close enough to produce fantastic groups at distances well outside of any hunting condition.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

Well I guess it depends what X-weaves your looking at.

And No GMMAT I wasn't slamming you, I just think that if ones bow is properly tuned to each arrow, they arent going to see a noticeable difference in groups unless they are an excellent archer.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

I think he did it AGAIN!!! (lol...just kidding)

I'd be adding about 22gr in arrow weight.....which I could counter by going to a 100gr broadhead (vs. 125gr I use, now). Or....I could rest on the fact I've had my best year ever (3D and Hunting) and stop thinking about changing.

Is there any reason to think about going from the x-weave hunter to the pro series? Is it worth the extra $1 or $2 per arrow?

RE: a/c/c's......
 

I am of the opinion that the small diameter will pay off well in penetration. Check out Dr. Ed Ashby's research in Africa on arrow penetration. He found that the shaft drag wasa huge factor. His "shaft drag factor" was used to reduce the penetration potential of an arrow/broadhead combination based on his thousands of shots into African game. His research showed that the arrow smaller than the broadhead ferrule was the best penetration, arrow same size as ferrule was 90% as good, and arrow larger than ferrule was only 60%.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

I use ACC's and they're the best arrow I've shot by far. Great tolerances and components and they are a good all around arrow. I use them for 3d and hunting and they perform great.

On the other hand, if the tolerances are the same with the X-Weaves and you're not getting any better benefit why change? It's like going from a top of the line Mercedes to a top of the line BMW just to change names.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

That's the opposite of what you want to be doing for good broadhead stabilization. You want to increase FOC not decrease it. I'd just shoot the heavier arrow with the same 125 gr. heads; save some money and get some more penetration. I doubt you'll even notice the 22 gr. difference until you get well outside your effective shooting range. (and yes, that was kind of a slam!:D) :eek:

The #1 reason I use A/C/C's is that I had an all carbon blow up at release once. Once is all it takes, no matter where the fault lies.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

Great advice guys. Thanks. I appreciate your help.

Anybody wanna buy some a/c/c's?;)

RE: a/c/c's......
 

3-71's ?

RE: a/c/c's......
 

3-49's

RE: a/c/c's......
 

Too bad I'm shooting 3-60/340's...[:@]

RE: a/c/c's......
 

First off,straightness is getting blown out of proportion in the arrow debate.The most accurate arrows in the world are .002 straightness.For broadhead flight,insert alignment and spine tolerances are way more important.Plus,I doubt that the arrows that are claiming .001 straightness will be that straight after shot a couple hundred times.(assumption on my part,have not tested them)

Rick,have you been able to test the .001 straight arrows after a couple hundred shots,I would be interested in seeing if they maintain that,even the carbon ones.Along with the spine after a couple hundred shots.

I know the ACC's I shoot have been shot alot for about 3 years now and shoot the same now as they did whenI got them.I NEVER had an all carbon shaft do that.


Ahair on your head is about .003 so .001 or .002 on an arrow isn't really even debateable.If you get into the .004 range,then it might become an issue.


I agree that the pin nock system is a more accurate system and the back end of an arrow is THE MOST IMPORTANT part of an arrow,this will tell the arrow what direction to go,however,the pin nock isn't even close to being as durable and forgiving to a back end hit.So for me and a hunting arrow that I slam into 3-d targets and bails(and get hit by "buddies").I prefer the uni system,for a long range target arrow,the pin nock would be my choice,but I would have alot of extras.Also,Easton uses pin nocks also,just not on the ACC's.(I know you are aware of this,just put it out there for those that don't)


What I like most about the ACC's is the wider range of spine.You can match them perfectly to about any setup.



Plus,I like the fact that the Easton's are made in the USA.



It is interesting to see all the varying opinions on different equipment.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

TFOX, What are the differences between a pin nock and a uni. I'm stupid. I am guessing the pin nock is a push in (???). How is it more accurate than a uni. Is there play in the uni or more alignment variance?

RE: a/c/c's......
 

GMMAT, if you're using 3-60's, your Lumenok's will work perfectly fine. You just need to remove the uni bushing and hone out the insideof the arrow to remove excess glue. Then they fit, but the 3-60's are the only one's they work with.

Having said that, I still say the Maxima 3D Selects are better....

RE: a/c/c's......
 

http://www.eastonarchery.com/accessoriesNew.asp?show=nocks



This should give you an idea.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

I think ACC's represent an "era". They were the best and still are considered great; but there is definately better, from almost every vendor.
I loved the hyperspeeds. Hard to fin SOB's are still fun to shoot. Worst experiment ever was with ACC's. I tried to shoot 3-28's out of a 63# setup. It was like shooting a shotgun pattern. It was a tad outside of the chart recommendation (haha). But my calculations showed it should work. Good thing I don't build bridges:)

RE: a/c/c's......
 

Shed are you looking for some 3-71s? If you are PM me.

The A/C/Cs are the most consistenet arrow I have ever shot period. I can't afford the higher dollar arrows lke A/C/E or what not but I have been shooting A/C/Cs for well over 10 years. IMO in the price range there is not a better arrow on the market.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

A/c/c s for me on the range and in the field both. I beleive their popularity over the years speaks for itself!!!!

RE: a/c/c's......
 

Can't believe I missed this response............



Yes I have tested them. I have a1/2 dozen pro 22's with probably 2500 shots on each that I shot all summer last year. They all spined and spun well last time I fletched them in January for this season and I have been shooting some winning scores with them locally just recently.

There are several things I like about Gold Tips pin nock system. Last year, I got a dozen pro 22's about this time. I fletched the first 1/2 dozen up with easton 2115 super uni bushing components. That entire half dozen is sitting in a bucket with wrecked back ends from shooting groups and getting hit in 3D targets. They do not protect the carbon as well as a pin nock. The other thing is that with a pin nock, you either know it is bad or good, the easton components are difficult to see after a hard hit atunless you have an arrow spinner. I carry a little plastic baggie in my quiver at all times that has about 50 nocks, anda 1/2 dozen extra pins in it. If I question a nock, I change it immediately. I do look at them as a disposable component and I really think people don't change their nocks enough. I will go through 150-200 nocks and a couple dozen pin insertsin a summer/3D season because I will replace them frequently. The pin nock components also has a longer sleeve that goes inside the shaft to better align the nock to the inside shaft wall. It is approximately 2x as long as the easton component. When I was using easton components in my goldtips I would end up with 1-2 arrows in a dozen that didn't spin to acceptable tolerances due to component alignment, since switching to pin nocks I haven't seen that yet.

The other thing I like about the pin nock system as a 3D shooter is that when I stick one in a 12 ring, if someone else hits the back end of the arrow it deflects them often times well into the 10, sometimes even an 8. Easton components don't seem to have quite this effect.

And not all of eastons are made in the USA. And the ones that are made in the USA..........calland ask where they buy the aluminum and carbon from. [8D]

RE: a/c/c's......
 

Very good discussion, guys... Rick, you summed up what I've seen/read from others -- and I fully concur with people not changing nocks often enough. I'm going to try to get a LOT better at that myself.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

I know that not all the Eastons are made in the US,from what I can gather,they have atleast 3 different shafts that are not made in the US.


I am also aware they get the raw materials from else where,mainly because it isn't readily available and some of the raw components just can't be mined here.

Atleast theyTRY to keep jobs here.Some of the companies just ran out trying to avoid some taxes.But I digress.:eek:


I agree that the pin nock system is a more accurate system,but like I said,Easton makes pin nocks also,they just put them on the best arrows in the world.[8D]

It is irrelevant what easton components do in another manufacturers arrow,they weren't made for them.


Ican't recall ever havingan arrow damaged from a back end hit that became unusable with uni bushings AND g-nocksand I have MANY nocks blown apart.I don't have a high energy setup so that helps but no one else has done it to my arrowseither AND I get my arrows(or used to) tuned out of a Hooter Shooter.That would tell beyond a doubt if there was a problem.I also change my nocks when in doubt.

I used to shoot ALOT of 3-d,all over.


Use what you like,I care less but there isn't a better arrow in the same price range as the ACC.Maybe some as good but none better.Just don't get caught up on .001 or .002 straightness,they aren't a reflection of anything usefull to even the best shooters.


Here are just a few nocksI had in my quiver .There have been MANY more over the years and even a few that had been broken off clean.

The one on the left is what they are supposed to look like.




A few of these would have been robinhoods if the unibushings were not being used but none of them resulted in a damged arrow.And people wonder why I spend the extra money for ACC's.;)

RE: a/c/c's......
 

his are 3-49's

RE: a/c/c's......
 

Also,were the arrows that you checked after some use within "factory" specs? You just said they spined and spun well.


Please don't take my question as any kind of attack on Goldtips ar any other arrow,they are fine arrows.


I prefer ACC's and KNOW the straightness tolerance that is put out by other manufacturers is a total marketing ploy.Yes,they may have arrows that are straight to within .001 but I say so what,it makes NO difference from a .002 straight arrow.(ACE's and X-10's are .0015)If you are comparing to a .004 or .005 straight,then there MAY be an argument.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

Not to be argumentative, but I COMPLETELY disagree. But what do I know?..........You will NEVER hear me say the ACC isn't a great arrow, because it is. There IS a better arrow, but not quite in that price range, but close. The Maxima 3D Select is better, period, and a little bit cheaper. The ACC is .002, the CX is .001.....This is the interesting part, though. The ACC straightness is measured over a 7" length of arrow, not the entire 32" shaft the way the CX is.....Now how much tighter is that tolerance?? Quite a bit, to be sure. Spine tolerances are awesome, weight tolerances, +/- 1 grain/dozen.

You can say not to get caught up in the straightness factor if you like, and to a point I totally agree with you. The average shooter WILL NOT notice a differnce in .002 and .001, but like I said, what makes the CX even better is it's the LENGTH of the arrow.......This same argument can be made w/ the ACC as well, but I've seen guys switch to the CX and their groups immediately tightened. My buddy has never robinhooded in his entire life, until last evening. He bought a dozen 3D Selects and did it on the SECOND shot....To say he was impressed would be an immense understatement.

Again, not to be a horses butt, don't take it that way, I just really believe the CX to be a better arrow....But the ACC is awesome, no doubt about it.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

The ACC's are measured over a 28" span(if my memory is correct),not a 7" span.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

From Easton's website ....

[align=center]
TRUSPECS AND GUARANTEED CONSISTENCY[/align]SPINE
Easton arrows, produced with our advanced technology and manufacturing processes, deliver uniform spine between all arrow shafts of the same size, and 360 degrees around each shaft. With Easton, you know that your next arrow will fly like the last.

STRAIGHTNESS
Our straightness measurements are actual, and surpass, with a far more stringent straightness requirement, ATA/ASTM industry standard. We measure straightness based on the full length of the shaft, minus two inches, which makes Easton arrows the most accurate in the industry. What we say is what you get -- and better.

WEIGHT
Accuracy requires weight consistency. Different weights will cause arrows to hit higher or lower. We adhere to strict weight tolerances in every arrow we manufacture, guaranteeing consistent arrow performance. Whether you're aiming for gold, or bearing down on a trophy elk, you know that the critical shot you're about to take will be as perfect as your practice shot.


[/align]

RE: a/c/c's......
 

Well see there, I just learned something from this discussion....Very cool....That there is some useful information.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

To confirm what tony posted.Thanks for that,I couldn't remember for sure.28" is for spine deflection.


I figured I better check my arrows ifI am saying that they are as close as advertised or closer.


Well out of the 9, 3-39's I have and USED for 3 seasons and have shot many targets and a few deer.They ALL checked dead zero runout when spin tested and the spine deflection was within .005,except 1 and it was .007.The spine tester was a crude one and I suspect if I had a good one,they might check even closer,but remember,they have shot deer and logs.[:o](I don't want to talk about that one)[:-]

They were all checked at 26" centers.

Use what you like,just don't get caught up in the numbers game.Just choose a quality arrow.Anything closer than .003 should be great for hunting.



My arrows were seconds,they were cut shafts and sold at a discounted price from the factory.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

Next week when I go to the shop I will check to see if they are within "factory specs" for straightness, and I will check spine again with actual numbers for you on these tolerances. We have an arrow straightener, and a spine guage that measures over 28". We also have ACC's at the shop new in the package that I will do the same with. I will say that even Easton Cobalt X7's that I have put on the straightener that were brand new were NOT withing advertised straightness tolerances. Also, keep in mind, each of the arrows of mine has 2500+ shots on them and countless hits in the back end, they are only a year and a half old or so but have more shots on them than most people will take in 4-5 years.

My point is that the pro series GT arrows are as straight as they need to be for someone to shoot world record scores in just about any type of competitive archery, and certainly straight enough for the average guy to use hunting and in the backyard. They are also lighter, cheaper, and most importantly have a MUCH better component system which in my opinion makes them a better option.

Don't be confused with the fact that I am on GT staff. I shot nothing but goldtip for LONG time before I got on staff and I have access to just about any arrow I want for any venue of archery for cheap enough to get what I really want. I shoot them because I like them, and I believe in them. The only thing I don't like about them is that they have a bit of work to come up with something comparable to a X10 or CE Nano for FITA, but I only shoot one FITA event a year so it isn't a huge priority for me. If Tim G. can shoot a 1396 on a FITA face and take out Cousins and his X10's at 90 meters I am sure the GT's will work well enough for me and my shooting abilities.

RE: a/c/c's......
 

When I bought my ACC's 3 years ago,I was puttingup to1000 arrows a week through a bow.Atleast one of them.


These arrows have been shot a lot.Just for some reference.


My biggest reasonfor not choosing goldtips was because they really didn't have anything that spined RIGHTfor my lower energy setups.They may have now,but I quit looking at them when they moved.I do like the pin nock system.BUT,I am having NO problems with the g-nock,uni bushing system.



I would be willing to bet that there are a few world records that have been shot with the old,outdated ACC technology.


Check your arrows only if YOU want,I would be interested as would othersbut you need to prove nothing to me.

I just saw something,the Gold tip Pro 22's are +- 1 grain,the ACC's are +- .5 grains.The ACC's have tighter tolerances.:D SEE HOW SILLY IT IS.