Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

I have a small side business that lets me (tax-wise) label myself as an independent contractor ....allowing me to expense uniforms and travel expenses as a write-off on my taxes.

If I wanted to start my own hunting business.....in an effort to take advantage of a similar situation (write off hunting trips and 'expenses').....would my business actually have to turn a dollar? Or.....could I get by with just expalining I was having bad years?....lol

Anyone have any experience in this area???

I could develop a jib for a box call or SOMETHING.....and wouldn't give a rat's ass if I sold one or not......as long as I could write off all hunting related expenses.

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

I believe you have 2 years to show a profit. I am not 100% sure on this but if I remember correctly that is what my fathers accountant said about our family's organic meat business.

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Not sure about your business situation, but I always though you had to turn a profit in 5 yrs, or it was considered a hobby?

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

I'm not sure what the law is for making money, but I'm pretty sure it's not a good idea to start a post discussing the best way to go about fleecing the IRS.;)

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

It's either above board or it isn't. I'm not trying to fleece anyone, as we're speaking hypothetically.;)

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Yep.

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

You can operate with a year-end deficit for five years before you're going to draw some real attention... And if you get audited, you better have some good documentation showing it was an attempt at a real business, and more specifically -- what you attempted to change within those five years to make the venture profitable.

An audit can be an excruciating experience, and the IRS can go back and collect back-taxes for the whole time period if your business was deemed nothing more than a hobby.

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

So I could carry expenses for 5 yrs and write them off.......then declare the business a "bust".....but still realize the tax breaks over the years my "business" was viable?

Isn't there an old saying about something sounding too good to be true?????

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Also, I dont think you'd be able to add those things as expenses unless your venture was a video production or something. You'd have to justify that they were direct costs of operating....

If you want to start a hunting video production company w/ me we could have fun.... for four years...

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

I've been an independent contractor (side business) fora number of years.....but the amounts I'm talking about writing off haven't been eyebrow raising. Now....if I could write off a few hunting trips....my bows.................a 4-wheeler......some leased land......I'd have something, there.

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

I guess you have a contractors liscense then?? Does your county make you hold a bond w/ them?

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

No Ed.....that could be a "side" business or maybe a Joint-venture LLC. Your added expenses would draw too much attention.

you and I could just dress the girls up in camo and sell calendars if we were trying to be "legit"?:)

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

It's a figure of speech, Ed. I'm considered an independent contractor (as is a realtor, for example.....or a golf professional......or a tax consultant) for tax purposes in a small side endeavor I do.

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Now thats an Idea... Would def. draw lots of attention though...

We'd have to take them on hunts, and buy them "props" :D

Thats what I thought, was just trying to see if its worth it...

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Office shall be in Ohio. It's centrally located, ya know?

We should be where the bears are for bear season photos......deer areas for Deer months....etc...

How'd you like to go to Illinois on a deer hunt........wite off all your travel expenses.....your video camera AND a camo bikini???? Hell I'm in for that! We gotta make sure we don't tart making money, though......profits are taxed at too great a rate.....and that woud ruin EVRYTHING!!

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Suggest you go to the IRS website and look up hobby loss rules. www.irs.gov

I can't remember for sure but I believe the safe harbor is a profit in two out of five years. It's more stringent if your "business" has to do with horses.

Safe harbor means they will assume you are in a real business if you turn a profit in two out of five years. Depends on the business. For example, if you start up a business pumping out septic tanks and don't turn a profit for seven years, they're not gonna bother you. People don't pump out septic tanks for a hobby.

Hope that helps. By the way, I'm a retired CPA, but have been out of the practice for 'bout six years now.

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

GMMAT,
Don't forget you'll need a sales and use tax license. Any sales you make are taxable. Filing is every quarter, weather you make a sale or not.
The 5 year no profit thing is correct. If you don't turn a profit they'll call you a hobby. The good news is that the IRS usually won't audit you unless you gross 1,000,000.00 for a year. This is for businesses,but depending on what you try to write-off and how will depend on if your a corp./sole propritor/partnership etc. and if they pay attention to your venture.
You can do all the daily accounting with Quick Books,but I'd get a good tax man for the end of the year.

My wife and I both have businesses out of our home , but only one of us takes the %'s of mtg. interest , prop taxes, utilities , etc. to be safe.

There's lots to it. Like I said , get a good tax guy.

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

I've"just" enough savvy that I think I could turn a profit in 2 out of 5 years. That'll be the years I don't go on "on-site fashion shoots" and don't upgrade the equipment.

Or.......Ican produce a product......that has exemplary "talent" in those years. I think I'm onto something.:)

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

I think we could sell a few calanders... Maybe do some photo shoots for name brands...

I can see this going places Jeff.... We just gotta make sure the ladies dont think were taking advantage of them though....

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Believe me, Ed.......when my wife sees the bottom line change....that'll be the last thing on her mind.

I can't wait to see our list of "pro staffers"!...lol

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Since your business will be in Ohio..I'll serve as office manager..and talent scout for the calender of course.[:-]

Where do I send my resume and or/bikini clad pics of wife??

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Haha! Ive got some friends w/ hot ladies we could keep on our prostaff....

I know were kinda kidding here... but im starting to think it could seriously work... Ive got a good advertising link to get us started too...

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

ANYONE CAN SEND BIKINI CLAD WIFE PICTURES TO ME TO BE CONSIDERED FOR INSTANT "prostaff" positions.....lol.

Have I made myself clear?....;)

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

I just picked up a web designer, too.

If I don't watch out.....this is gonna get interesting.....:D

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Sounds good, I can do somephoto editing and have access toan awesome camera.


If anyone wants to send pics w/ strategically placed hunting items and beautiful women behind them, I will discuss w/ Jeff on adding you to our prostaff:D

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Ed.....I promise you I can get us through the Spring and Summer months (ifyaknowwhatimean;)). Work on some Fall and Winter talent and we're off and running.

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

So when is the 1st company party?

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

If I can expense everything for the party.....we'll do it, soon. I'm off to Canada, this weekend........."SCOUTING".....lol.[&:]

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Jeff, i think you're into a real money making scheme here...... so much for the non-profit ;)

RE: Do I actually have to turn a dollar?
 

Well, I suppose if you donate the meat to charity you could write off the value of the venison. In my mind, the value of the venison consists of the cost of the bow, the arrows, the stands, the camo, the scents, the license fees, the processing fees etc. etc. If consider the true cost of venison, it's probably around $30 a pound by the time you consider all the above costs.

If venison is valued at $30 / pound and you donated say 100 pounds to a food bank, then you could write off $3,000 for those two deer you donated to the food bank since charitable donations are tax deductable. :D

PS - I'm not a CPA, so take my advice for what it's worth. I'm not responsible for any jail time you receive....