Availability of Hunting Ground and The Human Psyche
 

Availability of Hunting Ground and The Human Psyche
I never had to worry about finding a place to hunt until I strayed off the family farm and started going to school in Michigan. When I got here I was thinking "ok no big deal go get some permission slips and its game on". Wow did I get a slap in the face when the first door slammed in it. How could someone not want to be a steward of the land that they own and manage the local deer herd? But I was determined to find a place to hunt. So I continued on and the more and more I got turned down the more and more I wanted to know why these people wouldn't let me hunt? So one day after getting turned down once again, I asked the man what he had against hunting? He looked at me kind of funny and thought a moment then replied "nothin’ I guess, just don't want you to hunt". Well after pondering this for a while and making sure I didn't smell bad or look crazy, I came to the conclusion that most people really don't have a good reason to with hold permission to hunt from a well dressed, well spoken, polite individual. Its not that they have anything against hunting, they just don't want you to hunt. I approached another land owner one day while she was planting a tree. I said "hello" and "that’s a good lookin' oak tree your plantin' mam" in what I'm told up here is a southern draw. She replied "Yes it is, if the deer don't kill it first, what can I do for ya"? Seizing the opportunity I said "well I was going to ask you if you would allow me to slow your deer damage down a bit through some selective bow hunting"? She gave me a long look and said " You mean kill them"? I said "not all of them just a couple" she replied "I hate the damn things sometimes but I don't want them killed"! Again I was left floored! How could some one that has to replace trees because of the damage the deer are causing not want them to be thinned out a little bit. Now we aren't talking about eradication we are talking about managing the influx in the deer population. But no matter how you try to explain it to some people the answer is still no. Its people like this that have put the thought in the minds of so many people that steaks grow on the shelves of grocery stores and that not eating meat at all is a normal human diet. Newsflash: They don't call us omnivores for nothing! Once again I was beaten by the stupidity called mainstream America! All in all I did find two farms to hunt on this past season, but it would have been nice to have permission on a 1/15 of the other fifty that I asked.
But my message is this that we as HUNTER'S, not bow hunter's, not gun hunter's, HUNTER'S as a whole must work together to educate the public on what it is that we do.
Yes Baker, yes Steve, I am writing this at 10:30 on a Saturday night, but I have baseball practice tomorrow. I would appreciate it if you would forward this to anyone you know that will appreciate it and forward it on.
Adrian Woods
--
Pope & Young Chaser

RE: Availability of Hunting Ground and The Human Psyche
 

Excellent post.

RE: Availability of Hunting Ground and The Human Psyche
 

As hard a time as you had I wish I could have it that easy! Here in Texas its all about the money. I am trying to find farmers and ranchers that are having problems with feral hogs. What I hope to do is put hunters together with farmers and let them help each other out. Well, I'm finding plenty of hunters that want to kill hogs. What I'm not finding much of is farmers that want help and not cash. I am constantly hearing about damage done by hogs and the need to do something about out of control hog populations. When I approach a property owner I almost always get a price placed on the hunt. I won't give up yet. Its a shame to me that the human pysche here in Texas is $$$.

RE: Availability of Hunting Ground and The Human Psyche
 

txjourneyman you are exactly right it is all about the money. I know for a fact that if i offered some of the people that have turned me down a couple hundred dollars to hunt for the season that they would almost certainley let me hunt, but being in college i am on a pretty tight budget. Something you might try if you have not already is preparing a contract that you and the landowner both sign agreeing on the terms of your hunt.This has helped me aquire some properties.Its seems to makepeople feel a little more at ease seeingyour word in writing.

RE: Availability of Hunting Ground and The Human Psyche
 

Yes, I'm putting a contract together to see if that will help. I am also contacting The Texas Agricultural Extension to see if they can help find farmers that want help not cash.

RE: Availability of Hunting Ground and The Human Psyche
 

Greg.

You have come across the same problem I have in the past.
Farmers bitching about the damage the feral hogs are doing and that they want them gone.
When I have offered my services to bring a group of guys out to thin them down I get well it's gonna cost ya "X" amount plus "Y" amount per pound.

Thats when I usually just say well enjoy the hogs cause I am not paying to try and help you out.;)

RE: Availability of Hunting Ground and The Human Psyche
 

You bring up an excellent topic. How do you get permission from someone to hunt thier property?

Living out west we have a ton of public land, however this issue still comes up from time to time. I would like to outline a little experience I had with this where I came from - Illinois.

I started bow hunting with my father in 1981, at the age of 11. We pretty much had the run of whatever woodlot or river bottom we wanted to be on. Over time more bowhunters appeared on the scene, trophy value started to be regulated by international monetary standard (or so it seemed), videoing hunts became popular, and property started to convert to subdivisions, speculation and retirement/trophy homes. The realization that access was becoming limited, and something to really appreciate began to set in. We still had a dozen or so spots we could go without calling for permission first, including one ofmy family farms.

What you have to realize about the midwest, is that most deer hunting is done in small woodlots, windrows andcreek/river bottoms (some of which are no more than 100yds accross on average (you know this, but I mention it for the benefit of others in varied terrain). We considered the "big woods" to be areas of contiguous timber and cover that might be 80-300 acres or so. Certainly there are exceptions to this, but I think that's pretty average. Illinois is only about 7% public land last time I checked, and most of that is in southern tip of Illinois in the Shawnee Nat'l Forest.

So we set ourselves to concreting the relationships we already had with landowners by doing chores/fixing stufffor them, or working for them for a good rate (my dad owns a construction company). Eventually even a couple of those guys capitulated to big money. Nothing we were able to give that didn't cost us a whole lot (in lieu of money) was able to change the trend.

A couple of my uncles actually bought property in Western Illinois during this time. One actually purchased/leased about 17,000 acres during his 6-7 year stint as an outfitter in the Brown, Pikeand Adams county areas. Now you can't find cheap land there either, and there are a ton of outfitters.

When I finally went off to college I found a couple of state parks to hunt on, or went back home on the weekends. I finished college in Oregon, where vast amounts of public land were available (a key factor to why I am still out west - Montana now though).

I guess if I were to give any advise on getting permissionfrom where I sit today, I would say that (like anything) you need to project the, "what, why and how."

Example: Mr. Smith, my name is Joe and I'm originally from Illinois but going to the university here now, and I am looking for someone who allows deer hunting because my freezer is empty. Do you or anyone you know allow hunting on your land? I am willing to come only when it would not conflict with your privacy, and I am willing to work for the privelege.

In that statement, you have told the owner what you want to do and what you are willing to do in return. You have told him why, and that you also respect him and his land (which by the way, he has put his whole life into). You have also left it open for him to say no easily by suggesting you try so and so, and in this case it is probably a better lead anyway since he's not going to send a nuisance over to a valued neighbor.

Also, when selling yourself this way it is important, if at all possible, to have the wife present. She often is the one who will make the final decision. If you get permission anyway and she is not happy about it - it won't last. So, if you get a guy that says, "I'd let you go, but my wife wouldn't like it", you need to leave or get more creative.

Most of the time they will let you go, or have a very good reason not to. In some cases a landowner might say, okay, and here's the rules, which "ouch" includes not harvesting bucks. If you really want to prove that deer hunting/hunting is the end-all reason you are there, you better say, "Yessir,thank you sir, I very much appreciate your granting me access to your land." If you hunt there a year or so, show him you can live up to his expectations, do some chores (whether he agreed to it or not), respect thier privacy, and thank them by bringing by some summer sausage, etc... he will likely tell you that taking "a buck" next year would be alright if you want.

It is natural for people to want others (especially bright young, polite, well spoken, hard workingtypes) to be successful, and they get a measure of happiness seeing you succeed. If the owner says the land is outfitted, you might ask for the outfitter's number. Saying that you don't mind harvesting a doe, and would like to ask the outfitter's permission. I've had great luck in Montana doing that, as whitetails tend to be predominantly on private river bottoms (whichhave a tendencyto be outfitted). In one case, the outfitter said, "Yeah! We need some does taken out, how many tags you got?" He explained right where to go, what time to be there and generally was very excited that he didn't have to look for someone else to do the job.

On the other side, if you drive up in a tricked out truck with a lift kit, a plate reading "buckbuster", speed down their driveway (15mph is max speed on gravel near homes), get out wearing a bow hunters stick em' deeper T-shirt, and say, "Hey, my names Joe. Have seen any big bucks that I could K... harvest?" Don't expect the red carpet to unfurl.

Anyone else have some good experiences/suggestions they could add?

RE: Availability of Hunting Ground and The Human Psyche
 

Eatsleephunt i appreciate the advice and idea's, i have offered to work for hunting rights. I came across a couple of farmer's last August that were bailing their third cutting and being no stranger to the kick-bailer/bailking wagon combo asked if i could lend a hand unloading in exchange to hunt. For some reason they still answered "no". Thats ok i don't hate them for it, it just puzzles me a bit. Also I don't go flying down gravel roads and up driveways, and often times i am dressed in my college baseball team's garb. But i do drive a four wheel drive truck w/ muzzy, ASAT, Montana Decoy and Carbon Express stickers! Does this make me a bad person?

RE: Availability of Hunting Ground and The Human Psyche
 

No man it doesn't make you a bad person. I'm not suggesting anyone change what they consider to be their "image", or what they are proud of/support. What I am trying to get accross is that people, farmers in particular, tend to be on the conservative side (not necessarily politically), and may view some of the behavior I mentioned as non-essential. I didn't suggest you do those things. I am suggesting that those things influence how people percieve us.

When I hire a new employee, I like to glance in their rig to see how they keep it (if I get the chance). You can tell a lot about someone by how they take care of what they own. If I see that a guy is into collecting McDonalds periphinalia and has his aluminm can collection in the back, I know I'm gonna have trouble keeping my jobs clean.

If you are going to have a bumper sticker on your rig when you pull up to a farm house, make sure it says something like, "less government means less taxes" or something:)

RE: Availability of Hunting Ground and The Human Psyche
 

All you really can do is just keep asking people. I got lucky, ny girlfriends uncle is a farmer with a whole lot of land and he lets me hunt pretty much where ever I want. People today are obsessed with money and will milk what they have for everything. I really can't blame them but if you keep looking you will find some landowners that would let you hunt. (I bet a lot of them already have hunters on their land)