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Is a late recovery really a recovery?
For whatever reason, either through poor shot selection, poor shot placement, or inadequate/improper tracking skills a hunter does not recover the animal for several days and then only with the help of crows. Is this really a recovery and if so, why?
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RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
I'm sure each have their own definition of recovery , but I'll give you my definition.
Between my love for the table fare that venison offers and the pure enjoyment I get from hunting it would be hard to choose which one is my driving factor. But they both go hand in hand! If I dont recover a deer in time to enjoy the table fare , it's not a recovery. To some it may not matter , but if I shot a world record buck that I didn't find until it was too late to enjoy ALL benefits of a harvest , I wouldn't enjoy it half as much as shooting a six point and recovering it imediately.  <---Doug---<<< |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
Depends on what definition of "recovery" you are using to gauge the incident.
In my opinion, if everything was done with the best intentions when taking the shot, the shooter did the best within the parameters of his or her skill, gave his/her best shot in trying to (earlier) find the deer, and was still looking for and found the deer days later; although the deer was not salvageable, I would call it a recovery. No matter how hard a person tries to prevent it, loosing a deer can happen to anyone. |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
Anyone who has bowhunted for any length of time knows that regardless of how prepared you are, stuff can go wrong!
Whether it be a doe, a small buck, or a monster buck, if you track it long enough to find a poorly hit deer, I`ll give you an "A" for effort. That said, I would have to agree with....sit down, stay calm...Bowfanatic on this one! If the recovery was not made in time to save the whole animal, IMHO, it is not truly a recovery. I knew we were gonna agree on something pretty soon!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> NRA,UBP,BASS Member New Stanton,PA |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Anyone who has bowhunted for any length of time knows that regardless of how prepared you are, stuff can go wrong! Whether it be a doe, a small buck, or a monster buck, if you track it long enough to find a poorly hit deer, I`ll give you an "A" for effort. That said, I would have to agree with....sit down, stay calm...Bowfanatic on this one! If the recovery was not made in time to save the whole animal, IMHO, it is not truly a recovery. I knew we were gonna agree on something pretty soon!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> NRA,UBP,BASS Member New Stanton,PA <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> On this fourth day of December of 2002 at 12:04 am... I just might have to bump this back up to the top every couple months!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <---Doug---<<< |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
I am torn on this issue, as I'm normally an all or nothing kinda person. I had a late recovery once in my career. I wanted that deer, and was just sick that I didn't find it in time, I was young and learned many things over the course of that experience. I relied on someone more experienced and followed thier lead and they messed up too. I personally count the deer, because I did kill it. I feel it makes it better to count a late recovery, if you leave that tag open and don't shoot another deer on it.
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RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
To me, you haven't got anything until it's in the freezer. That's why I hunt. To eat good red meat. Actually, my wife said it best when we were watching a hunting show where they only took the antlers of a caribou. "Why even kill them if you aren't going to eat them?" That's why after wounding 2 deer and finding out my bow limbs are so old they don't have enough kenetic energy to kill a deer, I stopped using it all together. It caused me to lose the rest of the season and go deerless for the second year in a row, but I can't see wounding a deer and hoping I find it in time. Just my opinion.
KEEP IT LEGAL. KEEP IT SAFE. OR WE MAY NOT GET TO KEEP IT AT ALL. |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
I totally disagree on this one. I didn't find my 9'er till the
next mornin, and the yotes had already got to him. ya'll tellin me I didn't recover my deer? of course i did! it wadn't my intention for the yotes to find him first. If you shoot a deer and for whatever reason you don't find him untill 3 days later, is he still not the deer you shot? he's still just as dead as if he'd dropped within 75 yds of your stand.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> daytona 500 winner- Ward Burton go Cat-22 |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
I think that it would not be a recovery unless you are willing to put your tag on it.
"Bogobble-- I totally disagree on this one. I didn't find my 9'er till the next mornin, and the yotes had already got to him. ya'll tellin me I didn't recover my deer? of course i did! it wadn't my intention for the yotes to find him first." Bogobble has the exception to this rule as he found the deer in time to more than likely salvage the meat if the yotes hadn't got there first. My brother-in-law has a friend who shot a nine point this year and didn't find it until 3 weeks later. He had pushed the deer to early and it ended up only 450 yards from his stand but he didn't find it until the yotes pulled it out of the brush. He had not ever shot a deer and got out of the stand too soon then pushed it too fast. He has the rack in his garage but failed to tag it. I don't consider this a recovery even though it is obviously the deer he shot. " Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad" |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I totally disagree on this one. I didn't find my 9'er till the next mornin, and the yotes had already got to him. ya'll tellin me I didn't recover my deer? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Nope! Thats why I worded it like this..I'm sure each have their own definition of recovery , but I'll give you my definition. I'm glad you found your buck! I would have made a coyote hunt my mission in life! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
It is a recovery no matter when you find it. It may not be an edible deer but if you find it you in essense recovered it. Touching on what SW Iowa Hunter said, let me pose this question. You make a bad shot or whatever the case is and you can't find the deer. Several days later you find the deer with the help of the crows or buzzards. Most of you said that wasn't a recovery because the deer is inedible. I assume that would mean you are under no obligation what-so-ever to tag it, since it wasn't a recovery in you eyes?
Just curious and I like to rile you fellas up ever now and then.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> -------------------------------------------- Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas. |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
Is it a recovery? Yes, provided you continued to look for the animal. It could be a week later, but if you still had the animal in mind and went looking for it, then you filled your obligation as a hunter too recover your game. Now, this year is the first time this exact thing happend to me. Long story short my cable slide on my arrow rest,it broke on the shot. It's my fualt for not checking my equipment better, even though I did take some practice shot prior to hunting that evening, I still did not "look over" the bow like I know I should. My shot still hit within the vitals, but I only got about half my arrow in. I saw him run off. I looked until 10 that night, and from daylight until noon the next day. I never found any tracks, blood, hair or anything! I looked everywhere I thought he might be. One week later( the next weekend off) I went back looking again, I basicly found him from the rancid smell<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>. I feel I recoverd the animal, but I am not proud of the situation, and I don't feel "complete" at all. I enjoy venison, and since all I got was a set of antlers, I am not really proud of the circumstances, but these things can happen. I hope it never does again, but it may.
Now on the other hand if you give up looking for the animal, and just by luck you or someone else finds the deer several days latter, I don't consider it a recovery at all. You quit looking, so you basicly just found a dead deer in my opinion. We all know in our hearts whether or not we really gave up, or honestly continued looking, you may be able to fool others, but you can't fool yourself. TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS |
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RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It is a recovery no matter when you find it. It may not be an edible deer but if you find it you in essense recovered it. Touching on what SW Iowa Hunter said, let me pose this question. You make a bad shot or whatever the case is and you can't find the deer. Several days later you find the deer with the help of the crows or buzzards. Most of you said that wasn't a recovery because the deer is inedible. I assume that would mean you are under no obligation what-so-ever to tag it, since it wasn't a recovery in you eyes? Just curious and I like to rile you fellas up ever now and then.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> -------------------------------------------- Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Absolutely! We (WI) are under no legal obligation to tag an animal that is found too late for consumption. |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
TxCowboy, you bring up a very interesting point.
This whole subject is a tough one for me. Too many different scenarios! Take bogobbles situation...make a hit you are not 100% sure of at last light, the sensible thing to do is wait until the next morning to trail it. In his case the coyotes already found it! He did nothing wrong, but wound up with little or no table fair. To me...that would still be a recovery. Finding a poorly hit deer 2 or 3 days after the hit, because the crows directed you to the kill site, this is different to me. IMHO, you did not recover this one. Now, TxCowboy brings up a valid point....if you find one after the meat is ruined, do you feel NO obligation to tag it? You could get a heck of a battle over that question! I have, on other subjects overtly accused people of harboring thoughts they would not come right out and say! So I think it is only fair for me to spit out what I am thinking now. The Zaft buck was not a legitimate recovery! It should NOT be accepted by P&Y. Zaft admitted he forced a marginal shot. And, he did not find the buck, someone else did! There, now I feel better.<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle> I will go out on a limb about this....If you hit a doe, and did not recover until the meat was ruined, I would not expect you to use your tag. But, lets say you hit a big buck(here comes the trophy hunter part of me)and did not find it until the meat was ruined....If you are gonna take the rack...TAG IT! NRA,UBP,BASS Member New Stanton,PA |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The Zaft buck was not a legitimate recovery! It should NOT be accepted by P&Y. Zaft admitted he forced a marginal shot. And, he did not find the buck, someone else did! There, now I feel better.<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle> I will go out on a limb about this....If you hit a doe, and did not recover until the meat was ruined, I would not expect you to use your tag. But, lets say you hit a big buck(here comes the trophy hunter part of me)and did not find it until the meat was ruined....If you are gonna take the rack...TAG IT! NRA,UBP,BASS Member New Stanton,PA <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> The Zaft buck<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle> Thats twice in the same week we agree on something!<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> As for your buck scenario? I should clarify , that our laws dont force hunters to tag a deer thats not consumable , but you cannot cut off the rack or even transport an animal without tagging it. I have heard of instances where hunters have shot trophy bucks and found them too late for consumption. In both cases I heard of , a call was made to the DNR to ask permission to retrieve the antlers. The warden was taken to the dead carcass and had the hunters tag the bucks , but he issued both of them new tags because the meat wasn't consumable. |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
I have to disagree with those that say if you find it (no matter how long) it's a "recovery".
If you find it next spring, is it a recovery? Yes, taken to the illogical extreme...but where do you draw the line. If you can't eat it, it was a failed recovery. No matter how hard you tried...no matter how long you looked...it's a failed recovery. That DOES NOT make you a bad person/hunter...it just means you didn't get a succesfull recovery...that's all, nothing else. ONLY YOU can decide if it was due to lack of ethics, or lack of luck (i.e. coyotes, crows, wolves etc). Bowhunting isn't 100% succesfull no matter how hard you try, sometimes your NOT going to be succesfull...harvesting, recovering or whatever. Obviously, you would (do?) feel bad about not finding it in time, and want to feel better by saying "At least I recovered it"...Feel good knowing to TRIED YOUR BEST....not that you recovered some scraps with antlers. That MAY seem harsh, but we must live with our actions. We must see our actions as they TRUELY are. "To see one's self truely, one need only look truely" KUNG FU |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
Quote "The Zaft buck was not a legitimate recovery! It should NOT be accepted by P&Y. Zaft admitted he forced a marginal shot. And, he did not find the buck, someone else did!"
Bowfanatic and Big Country are you serious about the Zaft buck? You would not have claimed it and put it in the P and Y to gain all that money? Me if I knew that was my buck (and he knew too much about it not to be his) then I am claiming it and collecting all that appearance money at least until one bigger is shot!!! I know all about the ethics of it... but this comes down to some real change!!! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> " Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad" |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
I had posted this in another topic and thought it would be of interest here.
I am not sure that Wayne Zaft knew what he had when he shot it other than that it was a big animal. He did the ethical and logical thing and pursued the animal to the best of his ability and eventually did recover the deer, albeit with the help of the landowner. Would I have entered the deer in the P&Y books? Damn right I would have, and every other hunter would have also, if they had shot it. Wayne was within the regulations set out by P&Y and he deserves to be on top. As for making fistfuls of money from this animal, I am not sure that this is the case with Wayne. Speaking to the Alberta hunter that shot the potential WR NT Elk this fall, I have learned that many American Corperations do not want to support a Canadian hunter. The money is just not there for a Canadian hunter like it would be for an American hunter. Just my $0.02. bag em' and tag em' www.bowzone.ca |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
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Quote "The Zaft buck was not a legitimate recovery! It should NOT be accepted by P&Y. Zaft admitted he forced a marginal shot. And, he did not find the buck, someone else did!" Bowfanatic and Big Country are you serious about the Zaft buck? You would not have claimed it and put it in the P and Y to gain all that money? Me if I knew that was my buck (and he knew too much about it not to be his) then I am claiming it and collecting all that appearance money at least until one bigger is shot!!! I know all about the ethics of it... but this comes down to some real change!!! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> " Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad" <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I really cant answer in all honesty what I would do in his situation. When we're talking about alot of money I have to look out for my family first. How much money is he making off that buck anyway? I know I dont believe his buck should be in the record book and I'll explain why. The whole story about the marginal shot and poor choices he made and lack of recovery (by my definition) doesn't paint a good picture of the bowhunter for the general public. On top of that , since he didn't even find the buck , can anyone say without a doubt that the buck the farmer found was the buck he shot? |
RE: Is a late recovery really a recovery?
So now we need to remove ALL animals that were hit with a "marginal shot"? Also, if you had help finding the buck...and one of the guys finds it before you do...those have to be removed as well.
He did NOT succesfully recover the deer. He DID succesfully kill and tag the deer...that's enough to get you in the books, no matter how bad it looks. The deer belongs in the books....you just won't find me listening to everything Zaft says like it's the gospel or something. |
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