To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

I am told, quite frequently, I might add, NOT to hunt sign. Sign only shows where deer have BEEN, not where they are going to BE......

I have also been taught that deer are creatures of habit. So it would stand to reason that if there is sign that deer WERE there, they will return, yes? So why not hunt the sign?

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

How do you know what deer made the sign?

A rub???

Some rubs are made by a passer-by and never revisited. I don't want to hunt that tree.

Scrapes??? Well....I've seen a single scrpae worked by 4 bucks within an hour. I've also seen scrapes that I've never seen a deer over. They're worked at night, exclusively.

Hey....you might not want to hunt like I do. I hunt the does all year long....for various reasons. I follow where they are. I go wherever I see them congregating.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

Depends on what is known about the area.
If it's your home spot..you may know more about when the sign is being left and why.Then you coulduse that to your advantage or discount it as unhuntable night-time activity.
If it is virgin territory to you, you may make an educated guess based on terrain, cover, etc and hunt the sign or the area leading into or away from the area.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

I think it is more a matter of what time of the year that you are hunting certain sign? For example, if you hunt a rub line from last year on the opener of bow season,it would still be a ways away from the rut yet and a time when bucks are still more concerned with their stomaches than with the ladies/gaining attention. Now hunt that rub line closer to the rut and then you would be more likely to see the critter that made it the year before.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

I know what your saying about hunting does. I don't think there is one formula that works for everyone..(I know you are not implying that)

But I don't hunt does all year long..I just think Bucks are more solitary creatures. They want to hang out in the nasties, the cover, the wet places. The places that "weekend Joe" won't stumble on them. They will find a place that a "knowledgable" hunter would never look. That long overgrown fence row with supposedly no cover..etc. I don't find good bucks following does just because they are does.

I don't worry about the does until late pre rut through rut. Then I will "hunt the does".

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

I guessit's more like you shouldn't hunt one perticular sign. Deer will roam freely and I have seen them appear from areas I never would have even thought they would. But that being said they are creatures of habbit and will take the same general route especially when they start to feed with earnest with a winter approaching.

This is one of the reasons why I have stopped trying to patern bucks, they are just so unpredictable. Sign is good, finding lots of it is even better and finding a main path is what I'm looking for.. Things will change from year to year. Some areas I hunt, the same deer paths have been used for about 7 years straight now, others they seem to change yearly. You need to find where they eat and sleep to determine why they change.

The one spot that I hunt where the deer have been using the same paths, the main food area and bedding area have not changed in that time. Top that off with the fact that there is a couple of creeks that come together dividing the two areas creates a natural funnel.

Other areas, I have scoutedthe late winter months and found well traveled paths to bedding areas only to come to find out they have been abandoned by the next fall in the process of my early fall scouting.

Finding sign is never a bad thing! To me there is no such thing as "hunting sign" sign is only a means to locate the deer and tryto get a grip on their movements so you can set up in the best possible spot to get a shot.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

Hunting deer sign is hit or miss. Why is it there? What time of day is it being left? What is leaving it? How old is the sign? Is it milling, feeding or traveling sign? etc etc.... To many open questions to answer.

Like I said earlier, hunting deer sign is hit or miss IMO. Hunting the terrain features will always produce however. Terrain never lies, ifthe terraintells you a deer has to use it to move from one place to another it doesn't matter if it is full of big rubs or not.......He will walk through it guaranteed..... and the savvy hunter will be there waiting :D
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RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

GR8:

I don't have the luxury of going into the places you speak of. I'd bet there are deer that grow old and die within the confines of the area I can't hunt. I just have to be as prudent as I can on the areas on the outskirts I DO have access to.

In the early part of our year.....I saw bucks with does, feeding. In the rut....they're chasing them. The common denominator is ......does.

Again.....Most ALL the deer I hunt come out of the sanctuary, sometime. I'm in the hallway of their bedroom without akey to get in the bedroom door. I just hide out at different places in the hall......hoping they'll take "MY" route.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

I want to see lots of deer sign where I am hunting. The fresher the better. I may not set up over a particular scrape, but if a logging trail is dotted with a bunch of them, I'm going to be darn close to that area. If all in a sudden a boat load of new rubs spring up in one travel corridor as compared to another, I'm sitting where the rubs are.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

The only sign I don't hunt is the "no hunting sign"[8D]:).


I guess it only stands to reason that sign is a "the deer were here" message but you have to start some where. To me it matters how fresh it is. Trails are a good sign, deer dirt is a good sign, rubs, scrapes, these are all good signs that deer are in the area. When the rut is on all bets are off. Hunt the does exclusively.
My 2 cents

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

Jeff, I wasn't saying you were wrong..In fact I have a couple areas just like yours.. But when time and opportunity allow, I like to hunt Bucks in their territory, and not wait on them to come to mine. It's usaully a weekend when I have that kinda time. Otherwise I'm on the edges of suburbia with you!
I see more deer..hunting suburbia..but I see better bucks, more commonly hunting the Nasties.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

I know that...(not that it might have been true!!)....I was just explaining why I don't go into the areas you speak of (I can't!!).

I honestly, last year.....worked my way closer and closer to the sanctuary......as time went by. It was pure, blind luck that my season worked out the way it did. If I'd known where the deer were......earlier....I'd have barelled in there and screwed it up. By easing back in there......I kept JUST enough pressure to be where they were.....without blowing them out.

I'll hunt it the same way, this year ('07).

Good luck.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

The closest I generally come to "hunting does" for bucks is by hunting near known doe bedding areas. I prefer to set up with the terrain vs hunting does if this is possible depending on the areas topography.


[/align]Hunting does like sign IMOcan behit or miss as well. I am sure it is a little different in GMMAT's area than minethough as his deer are more restricted in their homeranges than the deer out this way. In my area food sources change frequently so if you aren't on top of your game with stand observations of their feeding preferences hunting does can leave you behind.


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RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

I hunt where there is rubs, acorns, droppings, scrapes, an no people unless I am hunting a certain buck, then everything changes. I look for does during the rutting phase.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

i was wandering the same thing

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

welli hunt where there was plenty of sign and does this year, but i didnt see a mature buck the ENTIRE season. saw three in one day last year. my little 20 acres i hunt is surrounded by perfect deer hunting so the deer pass through. but being 20 acres i am greatly restricted as to where to hunt. i think this year the deer actually just started movin through there at night.

im movin over to my uncles farm next year. the deer stay there 24/7 early early season and during summer because he has 100s of acres of beans and corn. even has an alfalfa plot that he bales for the cattle. i will hunt where the feeding sign is early season trying to target bachelor groups (sept.)then does during rut(nov.) then back to food during late winter(dec. and jan.).

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

Keep in mind deer are social animals and are creatures of habit!!!!!!!! if you have a area that has alot of sign rubs scrapes and sign of a big buck early in the rut and you hunt there and dont have any luck dont give up!!because chances are those deer using the area especialy the older deer are coming through at night !!! now as the rut heats you will start seeing these buck more during day light !!!!deer put scrapes and rubs in high traffic areas and high visable areaswere does and deer in general are using!!!you may wont to back track and get a little closer to were they may be bedding!!Also dont get the idea that if you got a piece of property that is smaller and there is not big rubs and alot of scrapes doesnt mean that theres not mature bucks in your area!!!!!

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

Like Buckeye stated.. it's hit or miss. Always use the terrain!

But if you use a little common sense when hunting sign you are already that much a better hunter. What I mean is this..

1. I find a scrape or two and a couple rubs coming from a really thick bedding area within 60-100 yards/ and it follows a saddle that allows deer to sneak through some open woods without being seen.. HUNT IT.

2. If I find 4 or 6 or 8 rubs and a good sized scrape on the edge of a field that you know the deer don't visit til after dark. They're simply bedded to far away. DON'T HUNT IT. But use it as a puzzle piece.

I don't hunt sign.. but I use it to determine movements of deer. I hunt topography and funnels. But I will hunt good sign within topography or funnels.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

I will stick with the Buck sign, I know he's been there, and it's only a matter of time till he comes back, I just got to be there when he is! I don't hunt does, some are under a misconsception that Bucks do all the seeking, whena Doe is in standing heat and hasa need to breed, Trust me, she will leave the groop and find her mate. I spend most of my time hunting around Primary and Community scrapes if possable, or good Rub lines leading into such areas for this reason. Different areas call for different tactics depending on Buck to Doe ratio, and lay of the land. But like I said, I will pick the Buck sign, even if it is only a track. If there ain't no sign, you are hunting Blind!!!

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

Unless you have the luxury of glassing your hunting spot and no one else is hunting it to find "A" particular deer, you have to hunt the sign. You don't hunt all sign... but you hunt it. Based on what you see, tracks your find, knowledge of the woods and deer sense, you hunt sign early season. It's easy to find the does, you hunt them before, during and right after the rut. If you're hunting in Sept or early Oct and want to shoot a buck, they aren't going to be with the does. You have to hunt the sign as you read it. A series of rubs can tell you bucks are cruising an area. The size can generally give you some idea of buck size. Tracks in scrapes help. I personnally don't hunt rubs or scrapes, but rather use them as guides to where the bucks are moving. You have to add all that to the food sources to get a true picture. So to say, "DON"T hunt the sign" is really pretty short sighted. Unless you can sit there for a month and glass and see a buck come out everynight in a field at a particular spot what do you do? If you've read the sign correctly you can figure it out without the glassing. You can read the sing in a new strange woods you've never hunted and come up with a deer. If you ignore scrapes, rubs and all that, you're just hoping you're lucky. GMMAT says he didn't hunt the sign, he observed and cautiously moved in over a period of time. What better sign is there than visual observation. He said he didn't want to pressure them. However, we've all heard how the neighbors pressured them and shot several by wandering all over. And even later GMMAT shot another. If you read the sign, hunt the wind and do low impact hunting you can go just about anywhere you want with a bow. Most of us have limited hunting days. I prefer to put myself in a spot to shoot something everytime I go. If I don't get back to the area for a week they've forgot me.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

Dead on, mature bucks are very reclusive, only with the does during the rut. Comparing MATUEREbucks todoes is like comparing cats to dogs.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

i believe seeing sign is a good thing. it lets you know that deer are in the area here are my thoughts on hunting that sign.

Say a rub. A rub is just a rub if its alone i wouldnt hunt it. However if the rub is a part of a series of rubs that tells you alot like were the deer is coming from and going to. The size of a rub can teach you alot too. Finding a rub on a large tree before rut tells you that this is part of a big deers core area.

Scrapes: Im from the school of thought that a scrape means nothing unless its in the woods or its really big like the size of a truck hood. A big buck would never make or even use a scrape along the edge of a field until nightfall, so whats the point of hunting it?

Hunting sign during the rut or chase phases is pointless bucks leave there core areas during this time looking for does. You are better off spending your time hunting over does then hunting over sign.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

OK, I see a pattern forming here......It sounds to me like we need to be using the sign as it relates to the terrain, right? Bedding areas have always intrigued me......Doe bedding areas I get...they are fairly simple to locate, but what about bucks? Do we just take an educated guess at the bedding area, or how do we get confirmation of that?

We need to use sign, I would guess. So in other words, sign is very important in the puzzle, but not necessarily the best place to set up, yes?

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

Precisely

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

OK, here's where the davidmil school of deer hunting differs from all the "EXPertTS" AND TV celebrities. People preach the bedding area the bedding area. Put yourself in a big BIG woods and find me a deer that follows the same routine day in and day out. Bedding areas are over glamorized to me. THey're not some magical spot that the deer go every day. Un molested and unbothered a deer will flop and chew the cud just about anywhere. We've all had deer bed down within yards of our stands. Today the deer might choose to bed up on a wide open hardwood ridge where they can see forever if anyone approaches in the noisy leaves. Tomorrow or even today if pressured, they may head for the thicket in the bottom where the wind swirls every which way. A bedding "AREA" can extend from a field edge all the way to the top of a mountain, and anything in between. Heck, a standing corn field is one of the best bedding areas going from mid summer through Oct. You don't have to walk in there to prove it. You just know. There are some secretive thicker than normal areas they'll goto andhide but if not pressured they'll stop where the mood hits them. That isn't necessarily in that high pressure escape thicket. I prefer to look for patterns of travel with the right sign and set up along those routes. If the deer are pressured and seeking out the thickets, that's where I'll go. I'll find a low impact entrance and exit and do it. Hunt the edge the first time or two to see what's going on. Weather also effects where deer bed. Bad storm, find some thick pines. Sunshine cold day, find a sunny protected spot in the open maybe. I don't subscribe to "An every day bedding area". I subscribe more to, here's the food, where does a deer go for a little daytime nap.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

This is where Davemill and I disagree, I love to hunt bedding area's and have taken over 1/2 by bucks in them. I do not search for any bedding area. I look for the one near his home range. Near where he "lives", I call this place his kitchen. This is where he prepares for love making during the rut. I believe a hot doe in the area will come to find him in this area.

In 2005 when I step in the woods to my bedding area stand I could smell the "rut", funny year after year it happens in the same area. I believe the older doe's know where the domiant buck lives. When thedoecome into heat they will go to his "kitchen".

When I look for this area I look forthese things Primary scrape, escape routes, seclusion. The last ones does not mean out in the middle of no where. It is a place he(buck) feels safe. It might be right behind a persons house.

Mobo I could show you a place with more scrapes and rubs on my land then where I have killed most of my bucks, andI have never seen a buck there, lol

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

davidmil, I've thought that very same thing for a long time. I think however, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think there's a difference in "napping" areas and a true bedding area. I've seen too many times deer come from the same area routinely to not believe they don't bed in a particular spot. I certainly don't argue, however, that if a deer feels inclined to lie down for a while, they're gonna do it. You mentioned big woods, maybe this is where the difference lies. I hunt mostly agricultural lands.....I personally think deer follow more of a pattern than what I hear about big woods.

Germ, I hear ya buddy. I have one of those same spots, and the question is......WHY? Only thing I can come up w/ is it's all nocturnal sign.

My second question then, is why do you kill your deer where you do? Is it related at all to all those rubs and scrapes? Is it like we've been talking about and just part of the puzzle that you use to set up where you do? You've obviously hunted over that sign before or you wouldn't know they don't use it during the day......so why do you move where you do?

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

Where all the rubs and scarpes are is located in the center of the farm. I believe this is where all the 1.5 and 2.5 year are rubbing the trees and making scrapes. I should make the point i never see a mature buck here, I see plenty of dinks. This is where I feel most(and me years ago) get trapped into thinking it is a great spot. The bucks know there pecking order and will stay out mature bucks area during the pre-rut. Why they get pushed to these areas like you and Ihave seen.

I am just guessing, but does your area have

1. Some cover but not too much!
2. Real close to food source or water source

These are where I find these sign rich areas.

1. Cover and seclusion
2. Mature bucks can live back there un-disturb
3. escape routes, he can get out there without meor anyone knowing he was there.
4. In the rut the doe's seem to be draw to this place when they are ready to "do it"

I know number 4 will get some debate, but how many times have we seen a old hot doe bring a buck to a certain woodlot?

When you find a matue deer sanctuary it will be good hunting for years to come. One thing I do is I NEVER hunt the same tree year after year. I believe in good hunting area, not a good tree.

Like this if you kill the mature buck another one wil take of the area. Just like humans prime real estate is always occupied. I have killed the mature buck in one spot 3 out of the last 5 years. Every year another brute moves in[8D]

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

In regards to cover, my area has plenty of that. Most of the woods I hunt are pretty thick. There is a 5 acre spot that was clear cut several years ago and you can only imagine how nasty and thick that place is. I see does come out of that area routinely.

You are correct w/ #2 though. Most of that sign we are talking about is in close proximity to water and/or food.

Oh, and I agree w/ #4. I know bucks go in search of hot does, but those mature does havea real NEED to breed, so I too believe they will search out a buck.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

Here is a better more broader defination for no 1.

On the out skirts of what we all think are "bedding areas". Like a swamp, the sign would be on the outter edges of the swamp. Not the outside, but real close!!

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

As I said, I think that when they use these same thickets etc on a daily basis, it's because of pressure. I didn't say don't hunt them. I do it all the time. I also look for other areas. The bucks more than likely aren't hanging with the does in early season. If you hunt in the areas the does are you probably won't see the big guys early in the year. The area Len and I used to hunt had4 mainbedding areas in a couple hundred acres. These deer where hunted by us and people around us for several years. Then two years ago the neighbors moved right into the bedding area the deer all went to when the season started. The wind was usually against them. Our deer sightings in that woods dropped off to a shadow of what they used to be. The deer moved out to a bedding area completely out of our woods and theirs. Pressure will move them. If those people had only hunted the area in the evening with the right wind, we'd all been all right. Without pressure they plop/nap/ and browse in a whole lot larger area.We'd see the same deer bed here today and in the finger tomorrow, back here a couple days later.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

Great posts David and GERM. For the young person or someone new to Bowhunting paying attention, You gave them imformation that would take years to learn on their own!!!

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

I shot my first buck of '07 on 9/30.....when he was hanging out with 25-30 other deer (mostly does). I know there's always an exception to the rule.....and I gues where I hunt.....it's the exception. I also know that the deer I hunt have a large area in which to consider their sanctuary. They also venture outside that sanctuary......and when they do.....they all come out in pretty much a limited array of routes.

I KNOW there's bucks out there that I never saw (even though I sat 46 times). I also know that I never had a hunt that I saw more bucks than does.....or...ONLY bucks. It didn't happen.

My hunting area is also pretty "sign-rich" (due to the small-ish size of the area I hunt). With the deer pop. I have.....the amt. of sign is going to be high. There's not too many areas I can set up ....where a rub isn't evident, somewhere. It's NOT why I chose the area, though. It's a bi-product.

My area is unique (I think). I ONLY know my area. These guys are giving you great advice.

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

When you have an overpopulation problem all sorts of deer coexist. :D:D

RE: To hunt sign, or not to hunt sign, this is the question.
 

this is where your trail camera would come in big handy to set up over the sign to see when they are visiting but i am with rob by following the ladies