![[Deleted]](https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/iconimages/bowhunting/deleted_ltr.gif)
[Deleted]
12-02-2002, 09:54 AM
#121
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saint joseph missouri USA
Posts: 548
RE: Trophy Hunting?
First off, I have been informed that the debate is starting to get out of hand. So, let's tone it down a notch. I am guilty of it, and so are others. My appologies.
Now.........<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Heres an article from the WiDNR website for you.
With the state herd continuing to hover around 1.6 million animals, hunters can expect extra hunting opportunities again in 2002. The high deer population kicked off another year of special herd control seasons, with 41 (four units have been removed from the Zone T framework and are now governed by CWD regulations) Deer Management Units (DMU's) requiring Zone T status. Zone T are special antlerless only hunts held is DMU’s where it is projected that the traditional deer season framework would not reduce the deer population to within 20% of that unit’s over wintering population goal. Some of this year's Zone T DMU's will have been in that category for their second or third year. To minimize conflicts with winter recreation in the northern part of the state, Zone T DMU’s north of Hwy. 8 will not participate in the December Zone T season. Hunters should check the 2002 DMU Map to see which units are designated for Zone T in 2002. In addition to Zone T, many DMU’s will have bonus antlerless permits available for hunters who wish to harvest additional antlerless deer.
Kinda covers what I said all along in the first couple sentences , doesn't it? All the extra doe harvest opportunities are aimed at reducing the herd! If you wish to argue the difference between herd reduction and herd eradication , send Nub an email , he'll be happy to fill you in on the difference , he's from the eradication zone.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>I still do not see anywhere in the paragraph where it says the words "herd reduction". I see the words "herd control", but this could also mean obtaining a balance of the herd, amongst several other things. This is very vague in its phrasing. Please show me where it says "herd reduction by the way of harvesting more does."
You can call Nub in here, or whoever you want. But, just because a guy lives in a T zone, Eradication zone, or whatever zone, does not make him any more of an expert than you or I are.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Whats with the buzzer and rolling over comment?? Still trying to make me look stupid?<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> It's getting old!<img src=icon_smile_sleepy.gif border=0 align=middle><hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Yes...I was....just as on several occassions others, including you, did towards me. But, this does not matter now, I appologized. We are adults, and we should act like them.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Richie , "the old way of thinking" (very limited doe harvests) was designed to increase the deer herd...period! Do you argue this fact? The only oooops they made was allowing the limited doe harvest to go on for too long until they realized that now their faced with too big of a deer herd. Any Wisconsin hunter who hunted in the 60's , 70's or before can verify this.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Increase the deer herd. Fine, I'll buy that. But, what did they end up doing to the herd??? I will tell you. They removed too many bucks from the herd, period, during this time. In which, again, left no competition for the bucks for the right to breed, in turn, left all of the remaining bucks to breed whichever doe they choose too, without worrying about fighting off other bucks to do the same.
Here is some quotes straight from the 2002 Missouri Fall Deer and Turkey Information guide:
"As you might expect, because the deer herd has changed through time, management goals and strategies also have changed...As the deer herd continues to change, the philosophy of hunters must do likewise...Conservation Department biologists have always used doe harvest as a primary deer managment tool, but some hunters stiil adhere to the "save a doe, so the herd can grow" philosophy of the 1940's and 50's. Some even mistakenly believe thet "real hunters don't shoot does". The fact is that doe harvest is critical for sucessful deer herd managment.
Now, the words are "primary deer management tool" and "deer herd management". I see nowhere, the words "herd reduction".
Now, for the sake of arguement, those words can be just as vague in meaning, as the paragraph you posted above.
But, this also comes from the same Missouri guide:
"Missouri's deer hunters also are Missouri's deer managers... Without hunting, deer survival rates will approach 95%, which can result in deer numbers nearly doubling every three years. Consequently, all responsible hunters must do their part to help achieve management goals to ensure that Missouri's deer herd remains healthy and strong...Last year, we advised that the January Extension portion of the firearms deer hunting season would likely be altered or eliminated because it had not proven sucessful in increasing antlerless deer harvests...Shifting this portion of the firearms deer season from January to December should minimize the possiblity of taking a buck that has shed its antlers..."
There it is in black and white, straight from the horses mouth. and I still have not seen the words, "herd reduction".
But, before you get started on the "that may be good for Missouri, but what about the areas who do not have deer numbers" arguement, read this.
...we advised the January Extension portion of the firearms deer hunting season would likely be altered or eliminated because it had not proven sucessful in increasing antlerless deer harvest...Many Missouri hunters do not have access to privately owned property and hunt only on public lands, including those owned or managed by the Coservation Department, recieve intense hunting pressure during the various hunting seasons, and especially during the deer seasons. The result of many years of heavy hunting pressure on Department areas is low deer numbers.... Consequently, it is time to consider new deer managment strategies on these public lands...It is possible that, beginning with the 2003 deer hunting season, some restrictions may be necessary on selected areas. In some instances, hunter access may be limited. In others, hunting methods or bag limits may be restircted.
"Altered or eliminated", "hunter access may be limited", and bag limits restricted".
These should be the management tools imposed on area with small herd numbers, to increase the herds to a huntable population. If it is not, you should write to your state agencies and voice your opinion on the subject. This shows, once again, that QDM is not all about "the rack". QDM is the over all balance and health of the herd. This is something you have just started to agree to in this whole debate. The "rack" debate I have always said, is icing on the cake. But you cannot do only half of the job towards QDM and expect it to be the same. Just as one could not get half way pregnant, or half way harvest an animal. It needs to be done as a whole to be sucessful, and can be done so very easily and without any cost whatsoever to the individual. All it takes is a little willpower.
Now, take a look at what is said about "intense hunting pressure". This proves my point, if you want to reduce the herd, intensify the harvest of all deer in a given area, not just the does.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>...but I sure wouldn't bat an eye at them for shooting young bucks as well.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Maybe you should start. Now, by all means, I do not go and pick a fight with a guy/gal just because he harvests a small buck, but if he/she is an experienced hunter, and ever asks me "Isn't this one a beauty??" or something to that nature, I will not hesitate to give my two cents.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Most of this nation is faced with over population of whitetail deer.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>I guess we need to put more intense harvest on all deer then, in these areas.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Back to the QDM. If a hunter does his part at bringing the buck to doe ratio closer by culling does , shooting a young buck does absolutely nothing to damage the health of the herd...period! You cant argue that fact! Your arguement there is based on your trophy mentality!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>I think you are missing the point. It is simple math and obvious reactions. You have 2 totals of something, with one total being at a 15-1 ratio to the other. Your goal is to equal out both totals. So, the first thing you do right off of the bat is to take down the higher number, and not even touch the lower number. If you take out any of the lower number, you are hampering yourself in your goal. Granted, after many, many, times of doing this, you may eventually succeed, but after how much time??? Chances are really good that you will run out of the lower number before you equal out the numbers all together.
It is the same for equaling out the herd by letting the young bucks pass. How much time are you willing to use up before the state imposes more restrictions that you nor I want?? Wouldn't you think the logical thing to do is start your own little QDM practice as a whole, no matter where you hunt??? Wouldn't the logical thing to do is help spread the word that if things keep going the way they are, unwanted restrictions are soon to follow? I think it would be.
Now, for the record. If we as a whole do not change our ways, no matter where we hunt, we are all going to face restrictions that none of us want.
But, I am finished. I am burnt. We can go on and on screaming at each other, quoting this and that. But I see, and I am sure you agree, that we can agree to disagree. If you would like to continue, thats fine. If not, and you agree to yours and I agree to mine, it has been a pleasure debating it with you!!! You are a most formitable foe!!
My thanks, Rich
Now.........<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Heres an article from the WiDNR website for you.
With the state herd continuing to hover around 1.6 million animals, hunters can expect extra hunting opportunities again in 2002. The high deer population kicked off another year of special herd control seasons, with 41 (four units have been removed from the Zone T framework and are now governed by CWD regulations) Deer Management Units (DMU's) requiring Zone T status. Zone T are special antlerless only hunts held is DMU’s where it is projected that the traditional deer season framework would not reduce the deer population to within 20% of that unit’s over wintering population goal. Some of this year's Zone T DMU's will have been in that category for their second or third year. To minimize conflicts with winter recreation in the northern part of the state, Zone T DMU’s north of Hwy. 8 will not participate in the December Zone T season. Hunters should check the 2002 DMU Map to see which units are designated for Zone T in 2002. In addition to Zone T, many DMU’s will have bonus antlerless permits available for hunters who wish to harvest additional antlerless deer.
Kinda covers what I said all along in the first couple sentences , doesn't it? All the extra doe harvest opportunities are aimed at reducing the herd! If you wish to argue the difference between herd reduction and herd eradication , send Nub an email , he'll be happy to fill you in on the difference , he's from the eradication zone.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>I still do not see anywhere in the paragraph where it says the words "herd reduction". I see the words "herd control", but this could also mean obtaining a balance of the herd, amongst several other things. This is very vague in its phrasing. Please show me where it says "herd reduction by the way of harvesting more does."
You can call Nub in here, or whoever you want. But, just because a guy lives in a T zone, Eradication zone, or whatever zone, does not make him any more of an expert than you or I are.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Whats with the buzzer and rolling over comment?? Still trying to make me look stupid?<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> It's getting old!<img src=icon_smile_sleepy.gif border=0 align=middle><hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Yes...I was....just as on several occassions others, including you, did towards me. But, this does not matter now, I appologized. We are adults, and we should act like them.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Richie , "the old way of thinking" (very limited doe harvests) was designed to increase the deer herd...period! Do you argue this fact? The only oooops they made was allowing the limited doe harvest to go on for too long until they realized that now their faced with too big of a deer herd. Any Wisconsin hunter who hunted in the 60's , 70's or before can verify this.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Increase the deer herd. Fine, I'll buy that. But, what did they end up doing to the herd??? I will tell you. They removed too many bucks from the herd, period, during this time. In which, again, left no competition for the bucks for the right to breed, in turn, left all of the remaining bucks to breed whichever doe they choose too, without worrying about fighting off other bucks to do the same.
Here is some quotes straight from the 2002 Missouri Fall Deer and Turkey Information guide:
"As you might expect, because the deer herd has changed through time, management goals and strategies also have changed...As the deer herd continues to change, the philosophy of hunters must do likewise...Conservation Department biologists have always used doe harvest as a primary deer managment tool, but some hunters stiil adhere to the "save a doe, so the herd can grow" philosophy of the 1940's and 50's. Some even mistakenly believe thet "real hunters don't shoot does". The fact is that doe harvest is critical for sucessful deer herd managment.
Now, the words are "primary deer management tool" and "deer herd management". I see nowhere, the words "herd reduction".
Now, for the sake of arguement, those words can be just as vague in meaning, as the paragraph you posted above.
But, this also comes from the same Missouri guide:
"Missouri's deer hunters also are Missouri's deer managers... Without hunting, deer survival rates will approach 95%, which can result in deer numbers nearly doubling every three years. Consequently, all responsible hunters must do their part to help achieve management goals to ensure that Missouri's deer herd remains healthy and strong...Last year, we advised that the January Extension portion of the firearms deer hunting season would likely be altered or eliminated because it had not proven sucessful in increasing antlerless deer harvests...Shifting this portion of the firearms deer season from January to December should minimize the possiblity of taking a buck that has shed its antlers..."
There it is in black and white, straight from the horses mouth. and I still have not seen the words, "herd reduction".
But, before you get started on the "that may be good for Missouri, but what about the areas who do not have deer numbers" arguement, read this.
...we advised the January Extension portion of the firearms deer hunting season would likely be altered or eliminated because it had not proven sucessful in increasing antlerless deer harvest...Many Missouri hunters do not have access to privately owned property and hunt only on public lands, including those owned or managed by the Coservation Department, recieve intense hunting pressure during the various hunting seasons, and especially during the deer seasons. The result of many years of heavy hunting pressure on Department areas is low deer numbers.... Consequently, it is time to consider new deer managment strategies on these public lands...It is possible that, beginning with the 2003 deer hunting season, some restrictions may be necessary on selected areas. In some instances, hunter access may be limited. In others, hunting methods or bag limits may be restircted.
"Altered or eliminated", "hunter access may be limited", and bag limits restricted".
These should be the management tools imposed on area with small herd numbers, to increase the herds to a huntable population. If it is not, you should write to your state agencies and voice your opinion on the subject. This shows, once again, that QDM is not all about "the rack". QDM is the over all balance and health of the herd. This is something you have just started to agree to in this whole debate. The "rack" debate I have always said, is icing on the cake. But you cannot do only half of the job towards QDM and expect it to be the same. Just as one could not get half way pregnant, or half way harvest an animal. It needs to be done as a whole to be sucessful, and can be done so very easily and without any cost whatsoever to the individual. All it takes is a little willpower.
Now, take a look at what is said about "intense hunting pressure". This proves my point, if you want to reduce the herd, intensify the harvest of all deer in a given area, not just the does.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>...but I sure wouldn't bat an eye at them for shooting young bucks as well.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Maybe you should start. Now, by all means, I do not go and pick a fight with a guy/gal just because he harvests a small buck, but if he/she is an experienced hunter, and ever asks me "Isn't this one a beauty??" or something to that nature, I will not hesitate to give my two cents.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Most of this nation is faced with over population of whitetail deer.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>I guess we need to put more intense harvest on all deer then, in these areas.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Back to the QDM. If a hunter does his part at bringing the buck to doe ratio closer by culling does , shooting a young buck does absolutely nothing to damage the health of the herd...period! You cant argue that fact! Your arguement there is based on your trophy mentality!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>I think you are missing the point. It is simple math and obvious reactions. You have 2 totals of something, with one total being at a 15-1 ratio to the other. Your goal is to equal out both totals. So, the first thing you do right off of the bat is to take down the higher number, and not even touch the lower number. If you take out any of the lower number, you are hampering yourself in your goal. Granted, after many, many, times of doing this, you may eventually succeed, but after how much time??? Chances are really good that you will run out of the lower number before you equal out the numbers all together.
It is the same for equaling out the herd by letting the young bucks pass. How much time are you willing to use up before the state imposes more restrictions that you nor I want?? Wouldn't you think the logical thing to do is start your own little QDM practice as a whole, no matter where you hunt??? Wouldn't the logical thing to do is help spread the word that if things keep going the way they are, unwanted restrictions are soon to follow? I think it would be.
Now, for the record. If we as a whole do not change our ways, no matter where we hunt, we are all going to face restrictions that none of us want.
But, I am finished. I am burnt. We can go on and on screaming at each other, quoting this and that. But I see, and I am sure you agree, that we can agree to disagree. If you would like to continue, thats fine. If not, and you agree to yours and I agree to mine, it has been a pleasure debating it with you!!! You are a most formitable foe!!
My thanks, Rich
12-02-2002, 10:42 AM
#122
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montgomery IL USA
Posts: 1,231
RE: Trophy Hunting?
<font color=red>"I still do not see anywhere in the paragraph where it says the words "herd reduction". I see the words "herd control", but this could also mean obtaining a balance of the herd, amongst several other things. This is very vague in its phrasing. Please show me where it says "herd reduction by the way of harvesting more does." You can call Nub in here, or whoever you want. But, just because a guy lives in a T zone, Eradication zone, or whatever zone, does not make him any more of an expert than you or I are."</font id=red>
Actually, it was right there in the article. Here it is again, and I'll try to make it stand out a little better...
<font color=blue>"Zone T are special antlerless only hunts held is DMU’s where it is projected that the traditional deer season framework would not reduce the deer population to within 20% of that unit’s over wintering population goal."</font id=blue>
A little more from the WDNR's web site....
<font color=blue>http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/HUNT/DEER/Deer2000/herdsizerept.pdf</font id=blue>
Page 5.
<font color=blue>"Expression of Deer Population Goals:
We recommend that deer management unit (DMU) goals continue to be expressed as the number of deer per square mile of deer range."</font id=blue>
Note: the DMU goals are in raw numbers of deer per square mile, NOT buck-doe ratios or some other criteria.
Page 6.
<font color=blue>"Herd-Control Season: Zone T Rules
A DMU shall have a Zone T Herd-Control Season if it expected that the unit deer herd cannot be brought to within 20% of goal in one year with the regular season framework."</font id=blue>
JRW
Edited by - jrw on 12/02/2002 11:43:59
Actually, it was right there in the article. Here it is again, and I'll try to make it stand out a little better...
<font color=blue>"Zone T are special antlerless only hunts held is DMU’s where it is projected that the traditional deer season framework would not reduce the deer population to within 20% of that unit’s over wintering population goal."</font id=blue>
A little more from the WDNR's web site....
<font color=blue>http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/HUNT/DEER/Deer2000/herdsizerept.pdf</font id=blue>
Page 5.
<font color=blue>"Expression of Deer Population Goals:
We recommend that deer management unit (DMU) goals continue to be expressed as the number of deer per square mile of deer range."</font id=blue>
Note: the DMU goals are in raw numbers of deer per square mile, NOT buck-doe ratios or some other criteria.
Page 6.
<font color=blue>"Herd-Control Season: Zone T Rules
A DMU shall have a Zone T Herd-Control Season if it expected that the unit deer herd cannot be brought to within 20% of goal in one year with the regular season framework."</font id=blue>
JRW
Edited by - jrw on 12/02/2002 11:43:59
12-02-2002, 10:52 AM
#123
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fredericksburg Virginia USA
Posts: 13,672
RE: Trophy Hunting?
Rich I will simply shorten my last post to these simple phrases.
One size does not fit all.
There is no danger of any restrictions in the state of Virginia for the next 50 years.
Va. deer herd is presently 2 things, it is out of balance which is why you could if you wished kill over 100 does legally and also why you can kill 3 bucks a year.
Even with the huge numbers of deer we have in Va. the herd is surprisingly healthy, by healthy I mean that they winter fine and as of right now they are not decreasing in size due to overpopulation, but they are getting there. There are still a lot of mature bucks in the herd and have been ever since I started hunting 37 years ago.
You speak with knowledge of Missouri's deer herd and I speak with knowledge of Va.'s as others do of there own state. If you want big mature deer there are plenty here in Va. it just takes more patience and work to harvest them, it has nothing to do with how many buttons, spikes or baskets that are killed by hunters that are pleased as punch to get one of them.
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
One size does not fit all.
There is no danger of any restrictions in the state of Virginia for the next 50 years.
Va. deer herd is presently 2 things, it is out of balance which is why you could if you wished kill over 100 does legally and also why you can kill 3 bucks a year.
Even with the huge numbers of deer we have in Va. the herd is surprisingly healthy, by healthy I mean that they winter fine and as of right now they are not decreasing in size due to overpopulation, but they are getting there. There are still a lot of mature bucks in the herd and have been ever since I started hunting 37 years ago.
You speak with knowledge of Missouri's deer herd and I speak with knowledge of Va.'s as others do of there own state. If you want big mature deer there are plenty here in Va. it just takes more patience and work to harvest them, it has nothing to do with how many buttons, spikes or baskets that are killed by hunters that are pleased as punch to get one of them.
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
12-02-2002, 05:14 PM
#124
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Stanton PA USA
Posts: 2,213
RE: Trophy Hunting?
JRW,
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I have a hard time listening to a "for the children" speach from folks (no one in particular) who pull out their checkbooks, pay landowners to kick other hunters off property (i.e. land leases), and then belittle still more hunters for shooting a 1 1/2 year old 8-pointer, because they wanted it to live another 2 years so they could have it mounted on their wall. The whole thing stinks of hypocrisy.
JRW
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Even the people who are in total agreement with you on this subject know EXACTLY what you mean by this!
<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>
That wasn`t even a good try.
NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I have a hard time listening to a "for the children" speach from folks (no one in particular) who pull out their checkbooks, pay landowners to kick other hunters off property (i.e. land leases), and then belittle still more hunters for shooting a 1 1/2 year old 8-pointer, because they wanted it to live another 2 years so they could have it mounted on their wall. The whole thing stinks of hypocrisy.
JRW
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Even the people who are in total agreement with you on this subject know EXACTLY what you mean by this!
<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>
That wasn`t even a good try.
NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA
12-02-2002, 05:26 PM
#125
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Trophy Hunting?
<font color=red>First off, I have been informed that the debate is starting to get out of hand. So, let's tone it down a notch. I am guilty of it, and so are others. My appologies.</font id=red>
Appology accepted! I aslo aploligize! For the most part , this has been one of the cleaner debates I've seen in awhile. It can be hard to debate via message board without showing a little emotion. I dont hold grudges based on a difference of opinion. I'll try and be the first to give my congrats on your harvests or answer any questions which may help you out. We'll probably end up in another arguement somewhere down the road. What seperates the men from the boys is when we can shake hands after the arguement and agree to disagree. This thread has drained me somewhat , so , this is where I extend my hand and agree to disagree.
Happy Holidays!
<---Doug---<<<
Appology accepted! I aslo aploligize! For the most part , this has been one of the cleaner debates I've seen in awhile. It can be hard to debate via message board without showing a little emotion. I dont hold grudges based on a difference of opinion. I'll try and be the first to give my congrats on your harvests or answer any questions which may help you out. We'll probably end up in another arguement somewhere down the road. What seperates the men from the boys is when we can shake hands after the arguement and agree to disagree. This thread has drained me somewhat , so , this is where I extend my hand and agree to disagree.
Happy Holidays!
<---Doug---<<<
12-02-2002, 06:08 PM
#126
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Stanton PA USA
Posts: 2,213
RE: Trophy Hunting?
BOWFANATIC, JRW, and all other combatants in this debate.... I could not agree with BOWFANATICS last post any more! It is obvious we are all NOT in complete agreement on the subject, and that is fine.
I agree that this debate has stayed fairly civil considering the emotions we all have for our point of view.
That being said, I second BOWFANATICS motion to shake hands and move on to the next subject!
It would not be fair to just move on without apologizing myself, so, I apologize for letting my passion for my convictions clouding my judgement on my choice of words from time to time.
Now, I`ll shake hands, but I ain`t hugging anybody!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA
I agree that this debate has stayed fairly civil considering the emotions we all have for our point of view.
That being said, I second BOWFANATICS motion to shake hands and move on to the next subject!
It would not be fair to just move on without apologizing myself, so, I apologize for letting my passion for my convictions clouding my judgement on my choice of words from time to time.
Now, I`ll shake hands, but I ain`t hugging anybody!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA
12-02-2002, 06:38 PM
#127
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montgomery IL USA
Posts: 1,231
RE: Trophy Hunting?
Oh, come on now Big Country....BIG HUG (just kidding).
Let's see...we already beat the crossgun horse to death, and now we've made ground meat out of the trophy hunter versus meat hunter thing...what's next?
I know..."Mechanical Broadheads...do they work?" <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
JRW
Let's see...we already beat the crossgun horse to death, and now we've made ground meat out of the trophy hunter versus meat hunter thing...what's next?
I know..."Mechanical Broadheads...do they work?" <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
JRW
12-02-2002, 07:37 PM
#128
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SD USA
Posts: 111
RE: Trophy Hunting?
I have been hunting the same buck for 2 years now and only had him in range once and i messed that up. But i have enjoyed every moment that i have spent out in the field hunting him.
Its getting to be that time of year that if a nice doe walks by she will probably get stuck!
Hunting is supposed to be fun. If shooting the first deer you see makes it fun for you, then do it.
Its getting to be that time of year that if a nice doe walks by she will probably get stuck!
Hunting is supposed to be fun. If shooting the first deer you see makes it fun for you, then do it.
12-02-2002, 08:01 PM
#129
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SD USA
Posts: 111
RE: Trophy Hunting?
I have been hunting the same buck for 2 years now and only had him in range once and i messed that up. But i have enjoyed every moment that i have spent out in the field hunting him.
Its getting to be that time of year that if a nice doe walks by she will probably get stuck!
Hunting is supposed to be fun. If shooting the first deer you see makes it fun for you, then do it.
Its getting to be that time of year that if a nice doe walks by she will probably get stuck!
Hunting is supposed to be fun. If shooting the first deer you see makes it fun for you, then do it.
12-02-2002, 10:31 PM
#130
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 9,626
RE: Trophy Hunting?
Interesting thread.
This is one of those areas where there are simply no clearly right and wrong answers.
The beauty of the situation is that there is room for both styles of hunting in America today.
If you want to chase trophies (a stage that I am just now entering), you can.
If you don't, you are not forced to hunt as other would have you hunt.
If you're having fun, you're doing it right.
This is one of those areas where there are simply no clearly right and wrong answers.
The beauty of the situation is that there is room for both styles of hunting in America today.
If you want to chase trophies (a stage that I am just now entering), you can.
If you don't, you are not forced to hunt as other would have you hunt.
If you're having fun, you're doing it right.
