Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
11-22-2002 | 10:44 PM
#81
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
From: Afton IA USA
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I can't believe this thing has gone on for 4 pages! You guys need to get out more! Ok. What did you come up with? Crossbows in or out? I mean, even if you got crossbows outlawed during archery season, a guy could just go out and buy a "DrawLoc" and put it on his compound and he's got an up and down crossbow that he can shoot during archery season. And if they outlawed it during archery season, the crossbow hunters would complain until they got their own season. So the DNR would probably cut the archery season short and make a special season for crossbows. I agree, it doesn't matter what you use to hunt with. But I get the feeling you guys aren't going to be happy until we are all forced to go back to clubs with thorns in them! Or do you want us to cut the thorns off too! LOL Give it a rest guys!
KEEP IT LEGAL. KEEP IT SAFE. OR WE MAY NOT GET TO KEEP IT AT ALL.
Edited by - budbowhunter on 11/22/2002 23:50:51
KEEP IT LEGAL. KEEP IT SAFE. OR WE MAY NOT GET TO KEEP IT AT ALL.
Edited by - budbowhunter on 11/22/2002 23:50:51
11-23-2002 | 06:28 AM
#82
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,643
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From: ......
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
" 1. That wasn't his question...was it? And you wonder why you don't know my position on crossguns in archery seasons? LOL!!!
That was MY question, in addition to his. But they are one in the same. His question was So , then your opposition to crossbows is based on selfishness? , mine was a little sweeter and worded differently but the core meaning of the questions remain - ban them and keep them out not because they have a different look, construction or function, but because they would increase the numbers of hunters in archery season and perhaps even shorten it and the bag limit ?? If thats not an issue, then we're back to the old accessories and how they differ from compound to crossbow to recurve/longbow - something thats already be debunked.
I mentioned the guys missing to show that longbow/recurve hunting IS more difficult. Those two guys with compounds rarely if ever missed. I was much like that too. I see a lot of posts on guys missing, forgetting to pick a spot, with recurves/longbows. Because its a more difficult thing to do, to kill a deer with a longbow/recurve. Thats fact anyway you slice is, just like compounds are more difficult than rifles. Compound hunters miss too, however with so many more compound hunters you would expect to hear about as many or more. That does not indicate a percentage though, does it ?
I would have jumped on the guy missing so many deer a year ago too. Why ? Because its not a good example of how archery SHOULD go. However, I know the guy, like the guy and what should be asked of him ? He practices, his equipment is good, he's a fine shot, I don't know that he's shot anywhere over 22 yards, he's got compoud experience and KNOWS how to hunt and kill deer ... is that NOT the requirements needed to go bowhunting ? Killing a deer has been hard for him - hell I'm 0 for 2 this year myself and haven't even shot at a deer yet ! THAT guys is something I have learned. Counting misses does not neccessarily indicate the quality of the hunter or the skill of the archer. Something is missing (concentration I think)but thats something that cannot be measured.
JRW - You said " As far as your buddies and their track records of misses and wounds... <u>If a person stays within their effective range, they don't go 0 for 5, or 1 for 12 with a couple of wounds.</u> Yes, animals jump the string, and "stuff" happens...but let's be serious. I've got a dollar waitin' on a dime that says their records of missing and wounding would only increase with a weapon that they felt they could shoot even further. My advice for them would be to learn, and stay within, their effective range, or take up a new hobby...like knitting.
Yet that is EXACTLY what has happened.
TxCowboy - You noticed that too ? He skirted BOWFANATIC's question yet again, as well as mine. Why is that ?
<font color=blue>I'll restate my case to clear any confusion.
A crossbow is not unlike a compound, the only difference really is the drawing of the bow which can be offset with the argument that crossbows are louder, heavier and more awkward, not as accurate at longer ranges and slower - theres a strong case for crossbows being LESS efficient than compounds as hunting weapons.
However a lot of people still want crossbows banned from archery season. Why ? IF its about equipment, then I submit that a compounds is MORE different than recurves/longbows as crossbows are to compounds. Maybe its because theres already enough archery hunters in the woods and more would result in a scaled back season and bag limits ? Or maybe crossbow hunters are slob hunters ? I have yet to see a good solid argument against crossbows in archery season. I know its not a popular stance, but it IS a stance of solid reasoning. I use to hate crossbows and crossbow hunters. After thinking it through I cannot think of a good reason to though. Yes, they choose equipment which is easier to use, not as challenging, but thats a choice.
My examples of people shooting and missing with a recurve/longbow were to show the difficulty. Both these guys are hunters, both are accomplished with compounds and rarely if ever missed with compounds. Both these guys know what they can do, know their equipment and practice. Both are fine shots, yet both have misseed quite a few deer. I am 0 for 2 this year, so its not just me - hunting with a recurve/longbow is much more challenging. I mention this because I am NOT bashing the hit/miss success of bowhunters. I've learned a different perspective and view in the past few months. Thats not to say that I don't think bowhunters should be the best at ethics, that we should work our hardest to shoot straight everytime and always make clean kills - thats EXACTLY what I believe, rather I see reality and the difficulties of bowhunting as it is in a better way I think.</font id=blue>
Stealthycat's Photo's
That was MY question, in addition to his. But they are one in the same. His question was So , then your opposition to crossbows is based on selfishness? , mine was a little sweeter and worded differently but the core meaning of the questions remain - ban them and keep them out not because they have a different look, construction or function, but because they would increase the numbers of hunters in archery season and perhaps even shorten it and the bag limit ?? If thats not an issue, then we're back to the old accessories and how they differ from compound to crossbow to recurve/longbow - something thats already be debunked.
I mentioned the guys missing to show that longbow/recurve hunting IS more difficult. Those two guys with compounds rarely if ever missed. I was much like that too. I see a lot of posts on guys missing, forgetting to pick a spot, with recurves/longbows. Because its a more difficult thing to do, to kill a deer with a longbow/recurve. Thats fact anyway you slice is, just like compounds are more difficult than rifles. Compound hunters miss too, however with so many more compound hunters you would expect to hear about as many or more. That does not indicate a percentage though, does it ?
I would have jumped on the guy missing so many deer a year ago too. Why ? Because its not a good example of how archery SHOULD go. However, I know the guy, like the guy and what should be asked of him ? He practices, his equipment is good, he's a fine shot, I don't know that he's shot anywhere over 22 yards, he's got compoud experience and KNOWS how to hunt and kill deer ... is that NOT the requirements needed to go bowhunting ? Killing a deer has been hard for him - hell I'm 0 for 2 this year myself and haven't even shot at a deer yet ! THAT guys is something I have learned. Counting misses does not neccessarily indicate the quality of the hunter or the skill of the archer. Something is missing (concentration I think)but thats something that cannot be measured.
JRW - You said " As far as your buddies and their track records of misses and wounds... <u>If a person stays within their effective range, they don't go 0 for 5, or 1 for 12 with a couple of wounds.</u> Yes, animals jump the string, and "stuff" happens...but let's be serious. I've got a dollar waitin' on a dime that says their records of missing and wounding would only increase with a weapon that they felt they could shoot even further. My advice for them would be to learn, and stay within, their effective range, or take up a new hobby...like knitting.
Yet that is EXACTLY what has happened.
TxCowboy - You noticed that too ? He skirted BOWFANATIC's question yet again, as well as mine. Why is that ?
<font color=blue>I'll restate my case to clear any confusion.
A crossbow is not unlike a compound, the only difference really is the drawing of the bow which can be offset with the argument that crossbows are louder, heavier and more awkward, not as accurate at longer ranges and slower - theres a strong case for crossbows being LESS efficient than compounds as hunting weapons.
However a lot of people still want crossbows banned from archery season. Why ? IF its about equipment, then I submit that a compounds is MORE different than recurves/longbows as crossbows are to compounds. Maybe its because theres already enough archery hunters in the woods and more would result in a scaled back season and bag limits ? Or maybe crossbow hunters are slob hunters ? I have yet to see a good solid argument against crossbows in archery season. I know its not a popular stance, but it IS a stance of solid reasoning. I use to hate crossbows and crossbow hunters. After thinking it through I cannot think of a good reason to though. Yes, they choose equipment which is easier to use, not as challenging, but thats a choice.
My examples of people shooting and missing with a recurve/longbow were to show the difficulty. Both these guys are hunters, both are accomplished with compounds and rarely if ever missed with compounds. Both these guys know what they can do, know their equipment and practice. Both are fine shots, yet both have misseed quite a few deer. I am 0 for 2 this year, so its not just me - hunting with a recurve/longbow is much more challenging. I mention this because I am NOT bashing the hit/miss success of bowhunters. I've learned a different perspective and view in the past few months. Thats not to say that I don't think bowhunters should be the best at ethics, that we should work our hardest to shoot straight everytime and always make clean kills - thats EXACTLY what I believe, rather I see reality and the difficulties of bowhunting as it is in a better way I think.</font id=blue>
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11-23-2002 | 06:53 AM
#83
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
Excellant post stealtycat.
I have never understood why some "bowhunters" are so biased against other hunters who use different implements for their hunting. The main reason is always "more people in the woods". With less hunters coming into the fold I would be encouraging others to hunt and not take away their way of hunting.
Anybody know where there is a "spear" season?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I have never understood why some "bowhunters" are so biased against other hunters who use different implements for their hunting. The main reason is always "more people in the woods". With less hunters coming into the fold I would be encouraging others to hunt and not take away their way of hunting.
Anybody know where there is a "spear" season?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
11-23-2002 | 09:22 AM
#84
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 0
From: Montgomery IL USA
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
SC,
<font color=red>"TxCowboy - You noticed that too ? He skirted BOWFANATIC's question yet again, as well as mine. Why is that ?"</font id=red>
1. I skirted nothing for you. I've laid out my position many MANY times on different forums...for you. For that, you chase your tail, pretend that I never answered you, and lied about me to try to get me to engage you in your "issues". You need some help.
2. You, TxCowboy, and BOWFANATIC have already made up your minds that the ONLY reason to oppose crossguns in archery seasons is selfishness. You're minds are closed, and the name-calling begun. Why entertain you three further? Is there a point to it?
When you get to the point where you understand why archery seasons were started, by whom they were started, and the underlying premise of them, maybe you'll get it. When you start to understand who has fought for decades for your right to bowhunt, and who has conributed nothing to the equation, maybe you'll understand. I doubt it though.
Until then you hang you hat on catering to the least common denominator, and making everything as easy as possible. And you call others selfish? That's laughable at best.
When you think that the sole purpose of archery seasons is to let you grab something with a string, go into the woods, and kill a critter with a sharp stick flying through the air...don't start calling anyone else selfish. You're the case-in-point.
SC...
I understand how you got to the point that you are now. From what I've seen of you over the past year, you somehow got the impression that hunting with a longbow would be "cool". Maybe it was one too many Fred Bear videos or something? You started pounding your chest, talking about how you had "given up the training wheels", sold your compounds, and "committed yourself" to being a "traditional bowhunter". You got a longbow, shot it for a while, and headed to the woods. After just one month, and having taken no deer, it didn't suit you anymore. Suddenly, the "en vougue" of trad lost its shine and you, admittedly, went with something you refer to as easier.
You're not unique. I see your kind every year by the boat-load. Hollier-that thou trad shooter one day...compound-toting trad-basher the next. You float of the winds of whatever suits your needs and damn the rest of us for not agreeing with you. The guys that I shoot and hunt with, compound and trad alike, just sit back and laugh at you and your type.
In the course of this, you somehow became a self-proclaimed expert on hunting with a trad bow. You seem to think that your fruitless month in the woods negates the experiences of people like Paul Brunner, who has 45 years as a bowhunter under his belt. How? I have no idea.
What I do find funny is that you only came to this great conclusion of yours after you bombed out, like a druggy on the SAT test, at hunting with a longbow. Look...you want to give up the longbow and go back to a compound...fine. Who cares other than you? I hunt with guys who make the P&Y equipment rules look like a Model T, and I couldn't care less. I hunt with guys who's idea of fair chase is 300 yards accross a bean field with a 7mm...so what? They hunt their way, I hunt mine, and we don't think any less of each other for it. You're the only one who has made your own equipment choice such a massive internet issue. I don't know if its some sort of unfounded guilt on your part, or your just looking for a way to bow out of your previous "training wheels" remarks.
When you first "found God" in the form of a longbow, you came accross as hollier-than-thou, and I didn't much care for it then. When you fell flat on your face and went searching for a way out, you still came across as hollier-than thou...and I still don't care for it.
You can vent your unfounded guilt at me all you want by calling me names and lieing about me. That's fine. When you get your own personal issues sorted out, let me know. Until then, you might want to watch those "hollier than thou" and "selfish" rocks you're throwing, because your glass house is becoming a total wreck.
JRW
<font color=red>"TxCowboy - You noticed that too ? He skirted BOWFANATIC's question yet again, as well as mine. Why is that ?"</font id=red>
1. I skirted nothing for you. I've laid out my position many MANY times on different forums...for you. For that, you chase your tail, pretend that I never answered you, and lied about me to try to get me to engage you in your "issues". You need some help.
2. You, TxCowboy, and BOWFANATIC have already made up your minds that the ONLY reason to oppose crossguns in archery seasons is selfishness. You're minds are closed, and the name-calling begun. Why entertain you three further? Is there a point to it?
When you get to the point where you understand why archery seasons were started, by whom they were started, and the underlying premise of them, maybe you'll get it. When you start to understand who has fought for decades for your right to bowhunt, and who has conributed nothing to the equation, maybe you'll understand. I doubt it though.
Until then you hang you hat on catering to the least common denominator, and making everything as easy as possible. And you call others selfish? That's laughable at best.
When you think that the sole purpose of archery seasons is to let you grab something with a string, go into the woods, and kill a critter with a sharp stick flying through the air...don't start calling anyone else selfish. You're the case-in-point.
SC...
I understand how you got to the point that you are now. From what I've seen of you over the past year, you somehow got the impression that hunting with a longbow would be "cool". Maybe it was one too many Fred Bear videos or something? You started pounding your chest, talking about how you had "given up the training wheels", sold your compounds, and "committed yourself" to being a "traditional bowhunter". You got a longbow, shot it for a while, and headed to the woods. After just one month, and having taken no deer, it didn't suit you anymore. Suddenly, the "en vougue" of trad lost its shine and you, admittedly, went with something you refer to as easier.
You're not unique. I see your kind every year by the boat-load. Hollier-that thou trad shooter one day...compound-toting trad-basher the next. You float of the winds of whatever suits your needs and damn the rest of us for not agreeing with you. The guys that I shoot and hunt with, compound and trad alike, just sit back and laugh at you and your type.
In the course of this, you somehow became a self-proclaimed expert on hunting with a trad bow. You seem to think that your fruitless month in the woods negates the experiences of people like Paul Brunner, who has 45 years as a bowhunter under his belt. How? I have no idea.
What I do find funny is that you only came to this great conclusion of yours after you bombed out, like a druggy on the SAT test, at hunting with a longbow. Look...you want to give up the longbow and go back to a compound...fine. Who cares other than you? I hunt with guys who make the P&Y equipment rules look like a Model T, and I couldn't care less. I hunt with guys who's idea of fair chase is 300 yards accross a bean field with a 7mm...so what? They hunt their way, I hunt mine, and we don't think any less of each other for it. You're the only one who has made your own equipment choice such a massive internet issue. I don't know if its some sort of unfounded guilt on your part, or your just looking for a way to bow out of your previous "training wheels" remarks.
When you first "found God" in the form of a longbow, you came accross as hollier-than-thou, and I didn't much care for it then. When you fell flat on your face and went searching for a way out, you still came across as hollier-than thou...and I still don't care for it.
You can vent your unfounded guilt at me all you want by calling me names and lieing about me. That's fine. When you get your own personal issues sorted out, let me know. Until then, you might want to watch those "hollier than thou" and "selfish" rocks you're throwing, because your glass house is becoming a total wreck.
JRW
11-23-2002 | 09:33 AM
#85
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,862
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
In other words, JRW, what you are saying is a person should beware of straddling a stream as they walk through life, because somehwere down the line the stream is apt to become wider than the person can spread their legs and their butt is going to get wet, and all will see. 
11-23-2002 | 11:46 AM
#87
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
From: Sheboygan WI USA
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
The reason for crossBOWS being allowed in archery season is because they have a short enough range that MOST hunters KNOW what they are shooting at. Everyone during the season can wear camo safely. NOT because they are harder/easier than a bow or gun. they just fire a similar projectile.
Personally, I like the rules here in WI. handicapped, or over 65 can use a crossbow.
But I have nothing agains't xBows...just don't sound like as much fun to ME.
BTW...not quite a spear, bit they are trying to pass the atladl (spelling?) basically a spear thrown with a long wooden ladle!!!
Personally, I like the rules here in WI. handicapped, or over 65 can use a crossbow.
But I have nothing agains't xBows...just don't sound like as much fun to ME.
BTW...not quite a spear, bit they are trying to pass the atladl (spelling?) basically a spear thrown with a long wooden ladle!!!
11-23-2002 | 11:56 AM
#88
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: Palmyra PA USA
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
The ability to brace a weapon against a tree or log, align scope crosshairs on an animal's chest, use no physical effort to impart potential energy on your projectile, and (with the exception of the index finger) remain totally motionless to execute a shot at game are abilities afforded only to stocked, preloaded weapons. They are certainly not afforded to archery equipment.
Centerfire rifles, shotguns, flintlocks, in-lines, and cross-bows are not weapons that belong in a season that ARCHERS established for ARCHERS to enjoy extra time in serene woods to hunt game. Though crossbows share the same basic spring-propultion idea as conventional bows, they are NOT bows and cannot be considered "close enough" to qualify as such. Sorry, but if you want to enjoy extra time in the woods...learn to shoot an actual bow and deal with the same limitations like the rest of us. If you insist on a crossbow, then use it in the general big game season where it belongs.
Centerfire rifles, shotguns, flintlocks, in-lines, and cross-bows are not weapons that belong in a season that ARCHERS established for ARCHERS to enjoy extra time in serene woods to hunt game. Though crossbows share the same basic spring-propultion idea as conventional bows, they are NOT bows and cannot be considered "close enough" to qualify as such. Sorry, but if you want to enjoy extra time in the woods...learn to shoot an actual bow and deal with the same limitations like the rest of us. If you insist on a crossbow, then use it in the general big game season where it belongs.
11-23-2002 | 04:29 PM
#90
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
So if you have a son who you'd like to spend time with in the woods and teach to hunt, but is unable due to size and strengh to handle a qualified bow but yet is able to sit with a crossbow and drill centers you'd not take him to the woods because of it?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
One of the many reasons I am happy to live in Ohio. My 3 sons are able to spend more time in the woods enjoying it. My 2 youngest are not capable yet to maintain the legal draw weight to use a compound. However all 3 have their own compound bow that they are practicing with to learn. The oldest uses his own compound to hunt with.
The two youngest also have their own recurve and longbow. So using a crossbow until they are proficent with them is fantastic. Anybody that doesnt want kids in the woods to continue the hunting legacy have no thoughts to the future of our heritage. So I am for them using a crossbow so they can be with me. It beats them staying at home and playing video games or watching tv while Dad alone is hunting. Is that want you really want? I know I dont.
So if you have a son who you'd like to spend time with in the woods and teach to hunt, but is unable due to size and strengh to handle a qualified bow but yet is able to sit with a crossbow and drill centers you'd not take him to the woods because of it?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
One of the many reasons I am happy to live in Ohio. My 3 sons are able to spend more time in the woods enjoying it. My 2 youngest are not capable yet to maintain the legal draw weight to use a compound. However all 3 have their own compound bow that they are practicing with to learn. The oldest uses his own compound to hunt with.
The two youngest also have their own recurve and longbow. So using a crossbow until they are proficent with them is fantastic. Anybody that doesnt want kids in the woods to continue the hunting legacy have no thoughts to the future of our heritage. So I am for them using a crossbow so they can be with me. It beats them staying at home and playing video games or watching tv while Dad alone is hunting. Is that want you really want? I know I dont.