Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
11-22-2002 | 01:47 PM
#61
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From: Deepwoods Treestand WI
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
This has turned into MORE than debate. NO "one person's" feelings are more important than anothers. <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
11-22-2002 | 01:59 PM
#62
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Nontypical Buck
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From: ......
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
" Oh brother...
The only REAL differences between recurve, longbows, and compounds is the let-off and some speed. THAT'S IT!!! They can ALL be shot with releases, sights, stabilizers, etc. You're peeing & moaning about different BOWS (recurve, LB, & compound), when the REAL difference is in what accessories the shooter CHOOSES to utilize.
Do you think that a person could pick up a stripped-down compound (no sights, release, or anything other than a simple rest) and be proficient with it in more, or less, time then he or she would take to be proficient with a recurve equiped with sights, a release, and a stabilizer? It ain't the BOW...it's the accessories that separate the two!
A gunstock, 100& letoff, and a trigger are NOT accessories on a crossgun...they're part of the design itself.
Not only won't your dog hunt, but it won't even lift it's leg to pee on the fence post.
JRW "
Thats the post you made on the LW. My response led us into the direction of who shoots short Axle to Axle bows etc etc. So you are right, I lumped you with those that say its all about drawing the bow. What IS your opinion then ? That because a crossbow has accessories mounted to it as opposed to people putting them on later or to help them get better groups, that its different in that way ? I will edit the previous post and remove that association, I was wrong there. I would like to see your opinion though if the above quote isn't accurate ??
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The only REAL differences between recurve, longbows, and compounds is the let-off and some speed. THAT'S IT!!! They can ALL be shot with releases, sights, stabilizers, etc. You're peeing & moaning about different BOWS (recurve, LB, & compound), when the REAL difference is in what accessories the shooter CHOOSES to utilize.
Do you think that a person could pick up a stripped-down compound (no sights, release, or anything other than a simple rest) and be proficient with it in more, or less, time then he or she would take to be proficient with a recurve equiped with sights, a release, and a stabilizer? It ain't the BOW...it's the accessories that separate the two!
A gunstock, 100& letoff, and a trigger are NOT accessories on a crossgun...they're part of the design itself.
Not only won't your dog hunt, but it won't even lift it's leg to pee on the fence post.
JRW "
Thats the post you made on the LW. My response led us into the direction of who shoots short Axle to Axle bows etc etc. So you are right, I lumped you with those that say its all about drawing the bow. What IS your opinion then ? That because a crossbow has accessories mounted to it as opposed to people putting them on later or to help them get better groups, that its different in that way ? I will edit the previous post and remove that association, I was wrong there. I would like to see your opinion though if the above quote isn't accurate ??
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11-22-2002 | 02:12 PM
#63
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Nontypical Buck
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From: ......
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
6ptsika
" First you use your misses as a reason why trad gear is so much harder,"
Did I ? I made 4 posts and gave my argument that compounds are as easy to use and more accurate than a crossbow way before talking about my personal challenge and success (or lack of <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>), didn't I ?
... than when challenged, you admit it had nothing to do with the equipment, it was a brain lapse on the shooter's part. Which is it? Is it because trad gear is harder, or because the archer screwed up?"
Well, thats not what I said, is it, or in the way that I said it ? I missed because two limbs jumped in fron t of my arrows. Seriously, a faster arrow would have cleared both limbs, and a compound would have let me draw sooner - both advantages. I don't think anyone can honestly say recurve/longbows aren't harder. If they weren't wouldn't everyone use them ? Think about that - most people gun hunt because its the easiest way to kill deer. The least ammount of deer hunters are people who make their own bows. Why ? DIIFICULTY in the chosen equipment, right ?
"I'm not buying the "guarantee" of either kill with a compound, there were most likely more twigs, could have hit one of them, or missed all together. Nothings "guaranteed" until you tag it. 14 years should haave taught you that much. '
I do gaurantee, because 14 years I KNOW how compounds shoot and those shots would have fallen. I aint bitter about it, its like relearning bowhunting. And I learned.
" And how many tmes must we point out, the basis of your argument is that compounds more closely resemble crossbows than trad gear, but YOU are the only one saying that."
Really ?
You can't use your personal opinion as fact to back up an argument, sorry."
I don't make it a point unless called on it. I base my arguments on factual and reasonable thinking.
"I guess this is all a mute point, with a seperate season for compounds, the trad season would be a brief one, at least in the whitetail states. Not enough trad guys to manage the herd properly, I suspect the compounders would have the bulk of the fall to themselves. "
Archery season is not there for herd managment. If it were, you'd see a lot longer season and a more liberal limit. I think AR deer hunters take 15% of the total deer kill - not significant.
"And yes, your friends sound like slobs to me, 1 for 12?, O for 5? Those peope have no business in the wods, regardless of equipment.
I agree, they'd have wounded twice as much if they thought they could take even longer shots."
HMMMM. What about the guy grizzly hunting ? 2 shots, 2 misses, one low hit then a deer that gets away ? Slob hunter ?? The one guy is a dang good shot, DANG good. He does seem to have a problem killing deer though - I think he gets nervous. He's killed I think 7 in a row before switching to a longbow with a compound. HMMMM, he's a good shot, but because he's shooting a longbow its MORE diificult maybe ?? HMMMMM
Stealthycat's Photo's
" First you use your misses as a reason why trad gear is so much harder,"
Did I ? I made 4 posts and gave my argument that compounds are as easy to use and more accurate than a crossbow way before talking about my personal challenge and success (or lack of <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>), didn't I ?
... than when challenged, you admit it had nothing to do with the equipment, it was a brain lapse on the shooter's part. Which is it? Is it because trad gear is harder, or because the archer screwed up?"
Well, thats not what I said, is it, or in the way that I said it ? I missed because two limbs jumped in fron t of my arrows. Seriously, a faster arrow would have cleared both limbs, and a compound would have let me draw sooner - both advantages. I don't think anyone can honestly say recurve/longbows aren't harder. If they weren't wouldn't everyone use them ? Think about that - most people gun hunt because its the easiest way to kill deer. The least ammount of deer hunters are people who make their own bows. Why ? DIIFICULTY in the chosen equipment, right ?
"I'm not buying the "guarantee" of either kill with a compound, there were most likely more twigs, could have hit one of them, or missed all together. Nothings "guaranteed" until you tag it. 14 years should haave taught you that much. '
I do gaurantee, because 14 years I KNOW how compounds shoot and those shots would have fallen. I aint bitter about it, its like relearning bowhunting. And I learned.
" And how many tmes must we point out, the basis of your argument is that compounds more closely resemble crossbows than trad gear, but YOU are the only one saying that."
Really ?
You can't use your personal opinion as fact to back up an argument, sorry."
I don't make it a point unless called on it. I base my arguments on factual and reasonable thinking.
"I guess this is all a mute point, with a seperate season for compounds, the trad season would be a brief one, at least in the whitetail states. Not enough trad guys to manage the herd properly, I suspect the compounders would have the bulk of the fall to themselves. "
Archery season is not there for herd managment. If it were, you'd see a lot longer season and a more liberal limit. I think AR deer hunters take 15% of the total deer kill - not significant.
"And yes, your friends sound like slobs to me, 1 for 12?, O for 5? Those peope have no business in the wods, regardless of equipment.
I agree, they'd have wounded twice as much if they thought they could take even longer shots."
HMMMM. What about the guy grizzly hunting ? 2 shots, 2 misses, one low hit then a deer that gets away ? Slob hunter ?? The one guy is a dang good shot, DANG good. He does seem to have a problem killing deer though - I think he gets nervous. He's killed I think 7 in a row before switching to a longbow with a compound. HMMMM, he's a good shot, but because he's shooting a longbow its MORE diificult maybe ?? HMMMMM
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11-22-2002 | 02:26 PM
#65
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Montgomery IL USA
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<font color=red>"What IS your opinion then ?"</font id=red>
If you went back, read that thread on the Bowsite, and still don't know what my opinion is...well...I'm not joining you on your tail chase. It's been answered for you enough times already, and lieing about my opinion is not going to get me to go down that road again with you, just to defend myself.
JRW
If you went back, read that thread on the Bowsite, and still don't know what my opinion is...well...I'm not joining you on your tail chase. It's been answered for you enough times already, and lieing about my opinion is not going to get me to go down that road again with you, just to defend myself.
JRW
11-22-2002 | 02:39 PM
#66
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From: Hamilton Square NJ USA
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I think this statement pretty much sums it up.
"most people gun hunt because its the easiest way to kill deer"
You have got to be kidding? Is that really how you look at things, and how you think others look at things?
It's not about easier or harder for most folks, it's about enjoying themselves in the outdoors. Most folks hunt with a gun because it's fun, it uses about all the vacaion time they have to spare, and it's how they grew up hunting. They'd laugh about your comment, as most of us are.
It's not a competition, it's not a reason to boost your ego, it's enjoyment of the chase. MaKing excuses about your misses leads me to believe you get soemthing out of the sport that's foreign to me. I'm sure the last deer I missed I could have killed with a 30-06, but I'm not pointing that out to boost my ego, and distract from my mistake.
I don't know aything about no grizzly, I prefer to keep it that way, Too expensive, and dangerous for me and the guide, I'll use a suitable rifle. Doesn't change the fact your friends are unprepared to go afield, and probably use the trad excuse for stretcching their effecive range.
Bowhunting not a herd managment tool????
That's exactly what it is, and archers take a lot more than 15% in every state I hunt(4 states so fa this year). Longer seasons and liberal bag limits??? In the East where I hunt archery is 5 months long, pretty much unlimited bag. Most areas require you take a doe before a buck, if that's not herd management, I guess they just don't like does?
"In heaven, even the fish have antlers"
"most people gun hunt because its the easiest way to kill deer"
You have got to be kidding? Is that really how you look at things, and how you think others look at things?
It's not about easier or harder for most folks, it's about enjoying themselves in the outdoors. Most folks hunt with a gun because it's fun, it uses about all the vacaion time they have to spare, and it's how they grew up hunting. They'd laugh about your comment, as most of us are.
It's not a competition, it's not a reason to boost your ego, it's enjoyment of the chase. MaKing excuses about your misses leads me to believe you get soemthing out of the sport that's foreign to me. I'm sure the last deer I missed I could have killed with a 30-06, but I'm not pointing that out to boost my ego, and distract from my mistake.
I don't know aything about no grizzly, I prefer to keep it that way, Too expensive, and dangerous for me and the guide, I'll use a suitable rifle. Doesn't change the fact your friends are unprepared to go afield, and probably use the trad excuse for stretcching their effecive range.
Bowhunting not a herd managment tool????
That's exactly what it is, and archers take a lot more than 15% in every state I hunt(4 states so fa this year). Longer seasons and liberal bag limits??? In the East where I hunt archery is 5 months long, pretty much unlimited bag. Most areas require you take a doe before a buck, if that's not herd management, I guess they just don't like does?
"In heaven, even the fish have antlers"
11-22-2002 | 03:04 PM
#67
Nontypical Buck
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From: Montgomery IL USA
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
6ptsika,
I don't know about AR, but last year in IL our bowkill made up roughly 40% of the total deer harvest. We have a season that opens 10/01 and ends in mid-january. We have a two buck limit, and unlimited does. There is actually a 5 county "restricted harvest zone" in East Central IL where hunters are forbidden to take does until November 1st, and are limited in their total harvest. Our DNR has specifically sited over-harvest by bowhunters as the reason for the special regulations.
What's funny to note is that IL, which allows crossguns only for the physically disabled during archery season, has more liberal bag limits than states like Ohio, where they're allowed at will.
I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head here.
JRW
I don't know about AR, but last year in IL our bowkill made up roughly 40% of the total deer harvest. We have a season that opens 10/01 and ends in mid-january. We have a two buck limit, and unlimited does. There is actually a 5 county "restricted harvest zone" in East Central IL where hunters are forbidden to take does until November 1st, and are limited in their total harvest. Our DNR has specifically sited over-harvest by bowhunters as the reason for the special regulations.
What's funny to note is that IL, which allows crossguns only for the physically disabled during archery season, has more liberal bag limits than states like Ohio, where they're allowed at will.
I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head here.
JRW
11-22-2002 | 03:07 PM
#68
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: East Texas
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
I love these debates they are very comical while standing on the side lines. What is interesting and sad is watching the bowhunter "elitist" adittudes come out. "My way is the only way" adittudes etc. These are also the same people who will not accept that THE man Fred Bear not only used poison pods, he advocted them!(that's another debate altogther)
This debate has gotten a little out of hand and is no longer really discussing the topic at hand. The topic is not which weapon is easier; it is why should or shouldn't cross bows be allowed in archery season. There hasn't been ONE good reason presented against allowing crossbows to be used. Yes yes, I know you don't have to draw it by hand when a deer walks out, nor do you have to hold any weight back. No doubt that makes the cross bow easier, so what? Tell me how a man in a tree with a cross bow is going to negatively affect your bow season? And don't even try to use that example by giving the hunter a gun. We all know that guns going off in the woods gives the deer a definate "heads up" that it's time to head for the hills.
Look, I've never shot a cross bow and don't really plan on it but Stealthy is right on this one. There is no logical reason not to allow them. The theory of, it would get more slobs in the woods is a joke and an insult to all hunters.
--------------------------------------------
Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas.
This debate has gotten a little out of hand and is no longer really discussing the topic at hand. The topic is not which weapon is easier; it is why should or shouldn't cross bows be allowed in archery season. There hasn't been ONE good reason presented against allowing crossbows to be used. Yes yes, I know you don't have to draw it by hand when a deer walks out, nor do you have to hold any weight back. No doubt that makes the cross bow easier, so what? Tell me how a man in a tree with a cross bow is going to negatively affect your bow season? And don't even try to use that example by giving the hunter a gun. We all know that guns going off in the woods gives the deer a definate "heads up" that it's time to head for the hills.
Look, I've never shot a cross bow and don't really plan on it but Stealthy is right on this one. There is no logical reason not to allow them. The theory of, it would get more slobs in the woods is a joke and an insult to all hunters.
--------------------------------------------
Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas.
11-22-2002 | 03:41 PM
#69
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Nontypical Buck
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From: ......
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
6ptsika - Poor choice of words perhaps. How come everyone donesn't use bows ? Because guns are far easier to use, more accurate and gives them a better chance overall to kill a deer. Yes, I agree on the comraderie and all aspects of the hunt, but the end goal, focus or whatever you want to call it is filling a tag. Most use guns to attain that. WHY ? Its easier, plain and simple.
JRW - One post of your out of dozens about crossbows adds anything to the conversation really from what I have read on the LW and here, so no I don't really know your stance and instead of posting it like I am you dodge around again and again. I guess it IS that hard to answer, huh ? If its about accessories as you above stated, then its clear that compounds are a big advantage overall, with the machined risers, wheels, letoffs, speeds, power, etc.
Arkansas, 1998 stats .... 179,225 total harvest, 6488 with crossbow 8605 with archery - about 8.5 %.
I am at home now and the connection is much slower so I won't surf for more stats - but that is my state. We have a 5 month season, 4 deer limits depending on zones, up to 3 or 4 does I think ?? Thats pretty liberal yet we only harvest something like 10% of the overall deer harvest - crossbows included. 10% is minimal, and maybe it is higher in other states ?? I'll look at that on Monday if this thread is still alive.
Let me ask this - what did Remington, Knight and the other makers of inline muzzleloaders do to get muzzleload seasons ? They were already in place, right ? What did Matthews do or BowTech ? Lets lay blame and point fingers equally, shall we ? The guy for PBS put forth the "what have crossbow manufacturers done for bowhunting" spill too. Don't hold ANY water.
TxCowboy - I agree, completley. For the record all - I support longbows, recurves, compounds AND crossbows in legal archery season
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JRW - One post of your out of dozens about crossbows adds anything to the conversation really from what I have read on the LW and here, so no I don't really know your stance and instead of posting it like I am you dodge around again and again. I guess it IS that hard to answer, huh ? If its about accessories as you above stated, then its clear that compounds are a big advantage overall, with the machined risers, wheels, letoffs, speeds, power, etc.
Arkansas, 1998 stats .... 179,225 total harvest, 6488 with crossbow 8605 with archery - about 8.5 %.
I am at home now and the connection is much slower so I won't surf for more stats - but that is my state. We have a 5 month season, 4 deer limits depending on zones, up to 3 or 4 does I think ?? Thats pretty liberal yet we only harvest something like 10% of the overall deer harvest - crossbows included. 10% is minimal, and maybe it is higher in other states ?? I'll look at that on Monday if this thread is still alive.
Let me ask this - what did Remington, Knight and the other makers of inline muzzleloaders do to get muzzleload seasons ? They were already in place, right ? What did Matthews do or BowTech ? Lets lay blame and point fingers equally, shall we ? The guy for PBS put forth the "what have crossbow manufacturers done for bowhunting" spill too. Don't hold ANY water.
TxCowboy - I agree, completley. For the record all - I support longbows, recurves, compounds AND crossbows in legal archery season
Stealthycat's Photo's
11-22-2002 | 04:28 PM
#70
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Wisconsin
RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
6ptsika,
I don't know about AR, but last year in IL our bowkill made up roughly 40% of the total deer harvest. We have a season that opens 10/01 and ends in mid-january. We have a two buck limit, and unlimited does. There is actually a 5 county "restricted harvest zone" in East Central IL where hunters are forbidden to take does until November 1st, and are limited in their total harvest. Our DNR has specifically sited over-harvest by bowhunters as the reason for the special regulations.
What's funny to note is that IL, which allows crossguns only for the physically disabled during archery season, has more liberal bag limits than states like Ohio, where they're allowed at will.
I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head here.
JRW
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
So , then your opposition to crossbows is based on selfishness? After reading other replies you've made on this subject in the past I would have guessed it to be your "mightier than thou" attitude. Or is it a little of both?
6ptsika,
I don't know about AR, but last year in IL our bowkill made up roughly 40% of the total deer harvest. We have a season that opens 10/01 and ends in mid-january. We have a two buck limit, and unlimited does. There is actually a 5 county "restricted harvest zone" in East Central IL where hunters are forbidden to take does until November 1st, and are limited in their total harvest. Our DNR has specifically sited over-harvest by bowhunters as the reason for the special regulations.
What's funny to note is that IL, which allows crossguns only for the physically disabled during archery season, has more liberal bag limits than states like Ohio, where they're allowed at will.
I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head here.
JRW
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
So , then your opposition to crossbows is based on selfishness? After reading other replies you've made on this subject in the past I would have guessed it to be your "mightier than thou" attitude. Or is it a little of both?