LAND LEASES BAD FOR HUNTERS?
11-15-2006, 08:28 AM
#31
Dominant Buck
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ramsey , Indiana
Posts: 22,545
RE: LAND LEASES BAD FOR HUNTERS?
I can't fault the landowner for wanting to maximze his investment in his land , or the leasing agents and other middle men who drive the prices to obscene levels , it isn't really their fault . That said , I'm against rampant uncontrolled leasing , too many people dodging taxes and shutting out the local boys for the almighty dollar . This is the kind of thing that's killing sport hunting in many european countries , and it will just as surely kill it here . When Joe Average Guy can no longer afford to hunt the sport will slowly die .
11-15-2006, 09:03 AM
#32
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Posts: 383
RE: LAND LEASES BAD FOR HUNTERS?
For what is middle class today, here in northern Virginia some 16 years ago there were plenty areas for the local hunter to hunt. With the growing population of our area DC Metro this has come to past.
We always have the military installations to hunt Quantico, Fort Belvoir, Fort A.P. Hill etc. but as you may not know if your not active duty you get last draw of zones, area’s etc. Even though they're not leases, they aren't free either to hunt.
Now there’s the need for the local hunters to obtain a place to hunt, public lands are over crowded the WMA’s so hunters revert to leasing land as a club which has grown tremendously over the years. IMO it gives us the buying power per say to lease chucks of land as a club for a minimal fee per year. I currently pay 250.00 to hunt on over 4,000 acres in distributed throughout several counties. I’m not that of the rich, nor am I that of the poor nor do I consider myself middle class anymore. Due to the fact of the rising demand for homes and their value.
A decent apartment runs anywhere from 1,200 – 1600 these days. Home mortgages anywhere from 1,800 3,200 depending on it’s age and value. Some may say then leave the area, why? I’ve manage thus far to survive and maintain if your not aware Northern Virginia is one of the fastest growingplaces in this country.
Which means there’s very little land to hunt anymore, yes many areas are over populated with deer, then again you cannot hunt them. However the state has several counties in which a hunter (Bow Hunter) can help manage the populations by Urban Archery even then one now must qualify himself with the particular organization set forth. I hunt property as well that I have access to. However I cannot bring along all my hunting buddies.
I cannot fault a farmer or land owner for what he/she does, prior to obtaining our most recent tract of 1,400 acres the farmer had another club there. However they didn't abide by his rules of his land plus there's a DMA set forth on his land. We offered a bid and was awarded the lease after he investigated us as a club. There's 5,000 acres divided among 3 clubs which sits upon the shore lines of the Rappahannock River.
We always have the military installations to hunt Quantico, Fort Belvoir, Fort A.P. Hill etc. but as you may not know if your not active duty you get last draw of zones, area’s etc. Even though they're not leases, they aren't free either to hunt.
Now there’s the need for the local hunters to obtain a place to hunt, public lands are over crowded the WMA’s so hunters revert to leasing land as a club which has grown tremendously over the years. IMO it gives us the buying power per say to lease chucks of land as a club for a minimal fee per year. I currently pay 250.00 to hunt on over 4,000 acres in distributed throughout several counties. I’m not that of the rich, nor am I that of the poor nor do I consider myself middle class anymore. Due to the fact of the rising demand for homes and their value.
A decent apartment runs anywhere from 1,200 – 1600 these days. Home mortgages anywhere from 1,800 3,200 depending on it’s age and value. Some may say then leave the area, why? I’ve manage thus far to survive and maintain if your not aware Northern Virginia is one of the fastest growingplaces in this country.
Which means there’s very little land to hunt anymore, yes many areas are over populated with deer, then again you cannot hunt them. However the state has several counties in which a hunter (Bow Hunter) can help manage the populations by Urban Archery even then one now must qualify himself with the particular organization set forth. I hunt property as well that I have access to. However I cannot bring along all my hunting buddies.
I cannot fault a farmer or land owner for what he/she does, prior to obtaining our most recent tract of 1,400 acres the farmer had another club there. However they didn't abide by his rules of his land plus there's a DMA set forth on his land. We offered a bid and was awarded the lease after he investigated us as a club. There's 5,000 acres divided among 3 clubs which sits upon the shore lines of the Rappahannock River.
11-15-2006, 09:44 AM
#33
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: LAND LEASES BAD FOR HUNTERS?
It's simple. People that have the money to spend on a lease are all for leases. Those whodon't have the extra cash to spend on a place to hunt are against it.
I can't afford a lease. Finally got tired of trying to elbow my way onto public land with the other poor sods. As a result, I got disgusted enough to pitch it all. This is the first year since I wasold enough tobe licensed that I haven't bought a hunting license. So, I can say for an absolute fact that the lease system has created at least one ex-hunter. I doubt I'm unique in thatregard.
Non-hunters + anti-hunters + ex-hunters (who stop voting favorably on hunting issues because they don't care any more) = Political disaster for hunting.
Think about it.
I can't afford a lease. Finally got tired of trying to elbow my way onto public land with the other poor sods. As a result, I got disgusted enough to pitch it all. This is the first year since I wasold enough tobe licensed that I haven't bought a hunting license. So, I can say for an absolute fact that the lease system has created at least one ex-hunter. I doubt I'm unique in thatregard.
Non-hunters + anti-hunters + ex-hunters (who stop voting favorably on hunting issues because they don't care any more) = Political disaster for hunting.
Think about it.
11-15-2006, 10:49 AM
#34
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,876
RE: LAND LEASES BAD FOR HUNTERS?
ORIGINAL: Germ
Not yet, but with all the press Ohio is getting,it is only going to get worst.
Yes I saved my money and sacrifice a ton last year so I could lease some land in Ohio. I think the trap a lot of folks fall into is the we need at least 100 acres to hunt. The lease I am looking is not to big or expensive. What I pay in the lease helps the owner pay the property taxes. From the owner mouth not mine.
I own land in MI andI have paid to hunt every year.It iscalled property taxes, and they go up every year it seems.
I am sorry a package of venison and a stick of sausage does not cover any cost.
I am not going to apologize for saving my money, and giving up a ton so I can hunt some land. I would love to just goask folks, but the gentleman from Ill is correct. You may loose your hunting ground if it is free now, I think it sucks, but way it is or is going to be in a lot of states.
It's not a rule nor do you have to live by it especially here in Ohio
Yes I saved my money and sacrifice a ton last year so I could lease some land in Ohio. I think the trap a lot of folks fall into is the we need at least 100 acres to hunt. The lease I am looking is not to big or expensive. What I pay in the lease helps the owner pay the property taxes. From the owner mouth not mine.
I own land in MI andI have paid to hunt every year.It iscalled property taxes, and they go up every year it seems.
I am sorry a package of venison and a stick of sausage does not cover any cost.
I am not going to apologize for saving my money, and giving up a ton so I can hunt some land. I would love to just goask folks, but the gentleman from Ill is correct. You may loose your hunting ground if it is free now, I think it sucks, but way it is or is going to be in a lot of states.
(sorry to hear that Arthur. You ever want to hunt Ohio I'd be the better for it. I'm surprised you don't carry enough weight to get a free ride most places)
(big mouths, ruined their own state),but... again we have over a million public reasons (just to mention one) not worry that we will have no place to hunt. For selfish reasons I hope your attitude prevails.
I hunted a piece of farm land. The section I hunted had at least 30% crop damage. The farmer said I could kill them all. I can't do that. Now he's a shrewd business man. I go and offer him money and he will take it while figuring out just what kind of fool is standing before him and how he might get a little more. I on the other hand leave him feeling like I'm going out of my way to help him out.
We both respect each other.[8D]Life in the country. We got our own ways of doing things. If I loose the place I just go someplace else. I'm a hunter and the fear of something is the wrong reason to follow. May work on most when talking politics and the weather.
11-15-2006, 11:17 AM
#35
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 34
RE: LAND LEASES BAD FOR HUNTERS?
Here it is guys and gals
The world is going to crap !!Mostdonthave morals, values or respect anymore.. Its never going to change !!!
Most people mess it up for all of us cause we all know there a millions of dumb$$$es out there that screw everything up.. They shoot at buildings, ruin fields , trash land, steal, etc etc..
Plus there are a ton that don't know how to hunt or are to lazy to do it right and they screw up everyones hunts also..
Everyone is so dang Greedy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hunters don't stand together or think of all hunters as a whole they just care about getting theirs and screw everyone else !!!!!!!!
Hate to say it you better hunt now as much as you can cause every year that passes gets closer to the end !!!!!!!!
So if it takes me lease'n land to get away from the IDOITS out there well I'm all for it aslong as its not a outrages price..
Unless I could findpermission to huntsome private land that a bunch of buttmunchs didn't already hunt on..
Everything has its Pros and Cons.. Its never going to change so why waste time complaining about it just go with the flow.. It'll never change anything...
My 2 cents..
11-15-2006, 11:31 AM
#36
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: LAND LEASES BAD FOR HUNTERS?
Yep Nodog I remember when MI was like that, LOL Unless you head north you have to pay to hunt. I think I would hammer your DNR before other hunters. They keep posting 200 '' bucks and running their mouths about how they managed the herd for Trophy Bucks.
I am on your side, but I can see Ohio's fate. My buddy went down to Southern Ohio and hunted public land, he met one person from Ohio. He met people from six other states.
One day I will buy some land in Ohio, if we ever meet up I will have a tree stand for you
No cost, just want to hear some great stories!
I am on your side, but I can see Ohio's fate. My buddy went down to Southern Ohio and hunted public land, he met one person from Ohio. He met people from six other states.
One day I will buy some land in Ohio, if we ever meet up I will have a tree stand for you
No cost, just want to hear some great stories!
11-15-2006, 11:33 AM
#37
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 372
RE: LAND LEASES BAD FOR HUNTERS?
This is one of my main reason for partisipating in a lease. I would not want to be in the woods with anybody who feels and believes hunting is a competition between hunters. That is how people get killed or shot.
ORIGINAL: holler critter
I REALY HATE REAPEATING MY SELF ,BUT LOOKS LIKE I MAY HAVE TO REINTERATE ONCE MORE. IF WE DID'NT HAVE A BUNCH OF SELFISH STUCK UP TROPHY WANNA BE HUNTERS WHO HUNT FOR BRAGGING AND WALLMOUNTSAND GREAT WISHES OF BECOMING ANOTHER TELEVISION ICON WITH NO REGARDS FOR THE REST OF THE PUBLIC HUNTING MASSSES,THEN MAYBE WE COULD KEEP THE TRADITION OF HUNTING BOTH AFFORDABLE AND ENJOYABLE FOR ALL FOLKS NOT JUST THOSE WHO USE HUNTING TO OVER COMPENSATE FOR THEIR PHYSCIAL TRAITS (HINT,HINT). THESE SO CALLED PRO WANTA BE'S ONLY LEASE LAND BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THEY CAN NOT COMPETE WITH REAL MEN OR WOMEN WHO LOCALY HUNTON THE FARMERS AND LAND OWNERS PROPERTY AND NEIGHBORHOODS. BY RENTING ANDLEASING THESE PROPERTIES THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE ENSURING THEMSELVES A PLACE IN VICTORY AND BRAGGING. IN MY OPINION , THE FARMERS AND LAND OWNERS WOULD STILL BE LETING THE LOCALS HUNT AND MANAGE THE HERDS IF IT WERE'NT FOR THE RICH AND HUNTING SNOB PRO WANTA BE'S. HOW ARE WE MANAGING THE DEER HERDS IF ONLY TROPHY HUNTERS THAT SEEK WALL MOUNTS AND BRAGGING RIGHTS WERE ALLOWED TO HUNT. THEY CARE NOTHING ABOUT HERD MANAGEMENT OR FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES OR FRIENDS.
IF THIS TURNS OUT TO BE THE HUNTING OF THE FUTURE THEN MAYBE A PERCENTAGE OF THE FARMERS AND LAND OWNERS PROFITS SHOULD BE TAKEN FOR THE PROTECTION AND MANAGEMENT OF LOCAL AND STATE WILD LIFE.
I REALY HATE REAPEATING MY SELF ,BUT LOOKS LIKE I MAY HAVE TO REINTERATE ONCE MORE. IF WE DID'NT HAVE A BUNCH OF SELFISH STUCK UP TROPHY WANNA BE HUNTERS WHO HUNT FOR BRAGGING AND WALLMOUNTSAND GREAT WISHES OF BECOMING ANOTHER TELEVISION ICON WITH NO REGARDS FOR THE REST OF THE PUBLIC HUNTING MASSSES,THEN MAYBE WE COULD KEEP THE TRADITION OF HUNTING BOTH AFFORDABLE AND ENJOYABLE FOR ALL FOLKS NOT JUST THOSE WHO USE HUNTING TO OVER COMPENSATE FOR THEIR PHYSCIAL TRAITS (HINT,HINT). THESE SO CALLED PRO WANTA BE'S ONLY LEASE LAND BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THEY CAN NOT COMPETE WITH REAL MEN OR WOMEN WHO LOCALY HUNTON THE FARMERS AND LAND OWNERS PROPERTY AND NEIGHBORHOODS. BY RENTING ANDLEASING THESE PROPERTIES THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE ENSURING THEMSELVES A PLACE IN VICTORY AND BRAGGING. IN MY OPINION , THE FARMERS AND LAND OWNERS WOULD STILL BE LETING THE LOCALS HUNT AND MANAGE THE HERDS IF IT WERE'NT FOR THE RICH AND HUNTING SNOB PRO WANTA BE'S. HOW ARE WE MANAGING THE DEER HERDS IF ONLY TROPHY HUNTERS THAT SEEK WALL MOUNTS AND BRAGGING RIGHTS WERE ALLOWED TO HUNT. THEY CARE NOTHING ABOUT HERD MANAGEMENT OR FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES OR FRIENDS.
IF THIS TURNS OUT TO BE THE HUNTING OF THE FUTURE THEN MAYBE A PERCENTAGE OF THE FARMERS AND LAND OWNERS PROFITS SHOULD BE TAKEN FOR THE PROTECTION AND MANAGEMENT OF LOCAL AND STATE WILD LIFE.
11-15-2006, 11:35 AM
#38
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 189
RE: LAND LEASES BAD FOR HUNTERS?
NC, I agree. Everyone thinks about themselves anymore. Not saying at times you should consider whats best for you, but no one even considers others (In general) I have said it before and will say it again, I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH LEASING. But only if the motives behind it are right. If you have to lease a property so you can managethe herdthen more power to you. If you lease it because youwant to bring family on. Hats off to you...Keep the sport alive, pass it on!!! If you lease it because you want the hunters who don't have a clue what they are doing and spook deer and ruin the herdoff of the property...I feel your pain!!! But on the other hand I have heard of people leasing property because "They were sick of that other guy that hunted the property shooting all the monsters" If you ask me thats pathetic. Its simply LAZY. Instead of ruining the hunting for the other guy who has put much time and effort into it, why don't you put time into it. The other guy has obviously scouted and patterned the deer and is not bothering your hunting or ruining the herd. Why don't you try the same instead of buying him out then sitting in the same damn tree he did!!! LAZY! It happened to me this year. @ 20 years old and being a student at Purdue, I obviously don't have the money to throw around on a lease. I don't want you to think I am complaining. Because I'm not. I just think the world today is pathetic. The value of a handshake, a family friend, and a mans word has been replaced by the dollar. And NC's completely right, its not gonna change. Only get worse!!!!
11-15-2006, 11:41 AM
#39
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 189
RE: LAND LEASES BAD FOR HUNTERS?
Tour, I agree...Huntings not a competition, its a PASSION, its a past time, its a tradition.Hanging a brute on your wallis one thing (its an accomplishment), but hunting strickly so you can brag on it is another. What happened to hunting for the love for the outdoors and the memories and friendships built? I don't know about you all but I'd rather spend a day in the woods without seeing a single deer, than spending it anywhere else!!!!
11-15-2006, 12:02 PM
#40
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 23
RE: LAND LEASES BAD FOR HUNTERS?
I dont see how anybody can fault a land owner for wanting to get some value from his land. Every lease Ive ever been to the guy would go out of his way for "his" hunters. And time and again I would see the hunters do something that would make the old farmer blow his stack and want to run everybody off.This is with him getting paid, I cant imagine what it would be like for him if he was just doing a favor for somebody who knocked on his door.Everytime one of those old guys get burned like that they talk and if theres one thing they do out in the country its talk.