Shots from above.
 

After reading a couple of our annual "Lost him" post it still remains evident to me that a lot of people just don't understand the anatomy of a deer from the angles we get when hunting. Probably 90 percent of us hunt from 15-25 feet up. We all shoot 3D targets and many do the tournament bit predominately from the ground. We all know where to aim from the ground, sneak it up as close as you dare to the back of the front shoulder, midway up or a little lower and let it go. Take the same shot straight up about 20 feet and you throw in another dimension. The higher up and the closer or further away twist the shot placement more. This is when people start making mistakes. Our goal is to give us the best chance of getting two lungs, center of mass. Well that's easy at ground level. But as you go up it becomes a smaller target the closer you get to verticle, at which point you can't do it. You can get one or the other or the heart, but you can't get them both. Same deal goes for quartering to or away shots. As you go further and further on a quartering away shot the aiming point slides to the rear on the deer. As you get to a straight going away shot(which we know we wouldn't take but I mention it for emphasis) you again arrive at a point where you can't get both, only one or the other or the heart. You got to imagine the path of your arrow. As you approach a 45 degree angle on a quartering away shot you're probably aiming at or behind the last rib to catch both lungs. Now take it up 20 feet in the air and you have another angle to figure. The best way that I know to explain the shots from above is to decide on you arrow path and then shoot at a point midway up or down on center of mass for your arrow line. Just imagine a deer broadside. You have his belly line and his back line. We aim halfway in between those two points or slightly lower. Again for imagery, If you take it up in a straight down angle you have a left and a right rib cage. You aim half way in between. Swing back on a quartering shot and your aim point moves back and back. Hopefully you'll pick a spot to connect with or close in front or back of the off side shoulder. Another mistake people who feel they have to take that straight down shot make is to aim too far forward. I'd say most aim between the shoulder blades. In this case they're way too far forward. Their is a hollow on both sides just behind the shoulderslooking down at a deer from above. You have to aim just behind the hollow. If you aim between the shoulders you're lucky to hit the very front tip of the lung lobes. Anyone in question should go out with a 3D Deer target with an arrow in hand and start with a broadside. point the arrow where you think it should be aimed. Then put yourself more and more into quartering shots and do it again at the angle the arrow would hit. You'll see how far back you end up aiming really quick to stick that offside shoulder. Eventually you'll be aiming at the guts and coming out in front of the offside shoulder. Do the same things for an imaginary treestand shot and see what happens. Do it from quartering to shots also. Consider the wedge form of the brisket and the heavy leading edge of the shoulder bones too. You'll quickly realize why these are just too crappy a shot to take. More deer are shot at some quartering angle than straight broadside. More deer are shot from some downward angle, yet we persist in practicing day in and day out at ground level on broadside bucks. Have fun.

RE: Shots from above.
 

There you have it. A good leason in shot placement.;)

RE: Shots from above.
 

Davidmil
I dont think you could have explained that any better if you tried. two thums up. great thread!!!
Dan

RE: Shots from above.
 

I can't help but think your post was directed at ME, David. I'm familiar with "Aim for the exit hole". I also practice a LOT....and I have a ladder stand set up at my house.....in the woods.....where we take shots from all angles. My son had a friend over a few weeks ago.....and I preched to them to not be concerned with where their arrows were striking thescoring lines on the McKenzie buck we own. I gave to them the lesson you just preached.

I made a bad hit, Tuesday. I'm living with it.

For the record.....my buck wasn't quartering away at a very acute angle, either. When I said I aimed for "above and behind the buck's shoulder".....I think you have a GREAT idea of where I was aiming. Anything other than EXACTLY what I'm telling you is pure conjecture. I wasn't aiming at his shoulder.

Did I flinch? I don't know. Did I do something worng? Yes.

Jeff

RE: Shots from above.
 

That is one of the best laid out explaination I've heard.

RE: Shots from above.
 

Very well said, and completely accurate.

And also the mainreason I brought my 3-D buck target to work so I can use the Rick James trick of practicing out of our manlift.:D That was a very good idea he had.

RE: Shots from above.
 

May not be so much for shots from above, but heres a bit of a diagram of shot placement.

RE: Shots from above.
 

Thanks David . Great post

RE: Shots from above.
 

Great post hope everyone reads it and lives by it.

RE: Shots from above.
 

SBGoobler: Nope my post wasn't directed at anyone except those who may Not know or have a wrong preconceived notion of where to aim and what the should be thinking. Your post DID lead me to post this, but it wasn't directed to you. I probably DID insert more into your angle and shot than was there...my bad. It's just I wish I had a $5 bill for everytime I've heard such things as, "It was straight down and I aimed right between the shoulders and that's where it hit" ...or ... "He was angled away pretty good but I slid it right behind the shoulder". .... or... "He was angled to me pretty good and I put it right into his shoulder"... or... "He was head on and I hit him right in the chest but it came out behind the shoulder"....or..."He was broadside so I put the pin right ON his shoulder but didn't get penetration. I hate these X,Y, Z broadheads". In 40 years of bowhunting I've heard them all too often. I didn't offer it up against anyone but more to guide the unknowing or newbee. Just trying to jog some minds. I've even heard these things from people who have killed their share of deer.

RE: Shots from above.
 

I think some of the hosts of different hunting shows should read this post. In the last three days I've seen two different guys take shots at deer facing head on. Taking a shot like that would never cross my mind.

RE: Shots from above.
 

In theory David has made shot placement quite clear. Obviously his 40(even :Dyears) of experience has given him the authority, and we should all be grateful this board has members like David who are willing to provide good guidance on whathas taken him years ongathering his knowledge.

On the other hand, when the time comes to put what you've practiced to the test--this is a whole different ball game.
We have all made mistakes, a common mistake made shooting at the 'real thing' is not 'following thru'. Moving the bow arm away to quickly,to see where the arrow hasstruct (or missed)--another good reason why shooting with BOTH eyes provide100% vision, as against the 50% vision you get when one eye is closed.
A 3D target is great for practicing shooting at thevitals of an animal--and should be used, but when the real mccoy stands before you, shot placement now becomes only 'part of the equation'. Many more ingredients are now included, that of zero sound,stealth, focus, staying calm, drawing your bow,picking a spot, following thru, controlling the nerves--it'ain't as easy as target shooting anymore. Of course the lucky breaks happens every now and again, but don't ever believe you're guaranteed an animal because you'vemastered a 3D target--it's not always that way.
Ihave seen quite a few Professional Target Shooters miss their share of big game animals--yes I have.
By the antis, the likes of PETA, we are misrepresented--not because we have a weapon in our hand makesit a signed deal. Certainly not, it takes more. We're tested on every shot, our talent and our skill and when we stand behind that animal to document the result--"We have darn well earned it".

RE: Shots from above.
 

Thanks for a great post Davidmil. My only bowdeer is a doe I killed last year from the ground. I have practiced from a 20' stand in my back yard all summer on a 3D deer but I still need all the info I can get. I'll be spending more time in a tree this year. I only had one stand last year, and now have 4. Your description makes it pretty clear and easy to visualize shot placement. And yes at times you have given me answers I didn't want to hear, like the one about spending 3 hr cutting an access trail. Although I didn't hear what I wanted to I took that info to heart and won't make that mistake again. With one year of bowhunting under my belt I may not still be a rookie but I sure do have a lot left to learn. Thanks for all of your help.

RE: Shots from above.
 

David:

I'd like to thank you for that last post. I took the angle into account......but I didn't (obviously) judge correctly.....or I just flat out made a bad shot (obvious).

Happy hunting.

jeff

RE: Shots from above.
 

I have to agree Thanks david!
The old saying is? Practice like you hunt.so true[&o] so true[&o]
Practicing correctly is one of the biggest keys to being a successfulbowhunter (imo)
The other Key is something that you can only find out from actually hunting and that is "learning to control Your Nerves".
Each hunter has his or her own way of dealing with it when its time to take the shot.
Your nerves can have a direct impact on the outcome of a what would have been a fun hunt and easy recovery.
But instead end up with a long blood trail or worse a blood trail that just ends without ever finding your game But knowing in your hart that this animal could be down And that is one of the worst feelingsany hunter can go through!
Nervescan cause a hunter to not focus properly, aim correctly,follow through ,Release the arrow correctlycausing a hunter toflentch, pluck or punch the release ect..ect..Resulting ina poor hit animal.
The advise given on this forum from veteran bowhunters like david is great.
It comes from yrs of trial and errors, Highs and lows
young hunters or someone who is just starting out can learn a great deal from these guys.
Verteran bowhunters if there wise? Can also learn and share there knowledge with each other to becomeeven better.
when i first came to this forum i thought i knew just about everything there was to bowhunting.
But what i found out was Just how little i really did know.
Good luck this season guys.

RE: Shots from above.
 

Great post and exactly why I have been practicing on my 3d out of a cheapo ladder stand (was given to me) in the back yard the past week. An effective shot angle when the deer is very close can be extremely tricky. Still, no amount of practice can lead to perfection. This being my second year, I've learned a lot by reading the other post as well and hope that I never lose a deer. But I can only imagine the way you feel SBGobblers. Good luck the rest of the season. I bet things will look up from here!