RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
 

Man,I wish some of you guys would help me out on the "idiots" thread!

RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
 

First of all there should be mandantory bow hunters safety courses to teach the ethical side of bow hunting, the basics of the kill zone on a deer, ethical shots and the basics of how long to wait before tracking and how to track.

Will this stop the unethical? No, but it will give the majority of new bow hunters who do not have a mentor an idea of what is a good shot and what isn't and also what to do after the shot.

A compentency test should be part of the bow hunters safety course, there should not be a pass or fail per say, but each archer should be told by th instructor/tester what is thier individual maximum shot should be.

Would this stop an idiot from taking a 50 yard shot who is incapable of hitting a pie plate at 20 yards? No it wouldn,t, but for those who do not have a mentor, they will at least have someone telling them that you should not take a shot beyond this range until you improve.

Are we over regulated? Not in Va.! Heck I have never taken a bow safety course, but I was taught my ethics and basic skills by 2 of the best hunters I know, I am 49 years old and will be taking hunters safety with my twins in the next year or two and see nothing but good coming of the course.

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club

RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
 

I posted the message below on the "Idiots" thread before I saw this one. I don't feel like bowhunters are currently overregulated, but could be some day.


I've read this board off and on for a couple of years now and somehow managed to keep from posting for one reason or another. This discussion was too much, however, so I registered and here I am.

Not trying to start a big argument, but here is why I believe it is definitely a bad idea to require a mandatory bowhunting "competency" exam before a person is allowed to hunt. In setting up such a program, you really need to worry about who might be involved in setting the standard for deciding whether or not you get to hunt. Old Joe Bob that is the head of your state wildlife commission right now just might decide that hitting six out of six on a paper plate at 20 yards is plenty good for certifying you to participate this year. But 5 years from now, your new governor might just appoint one or two more anti-hunting inclined wildlife commissioners to the board and give them the majority. Then who's to say that the new "revised standard" might not just become six out of six in a tennis-ball size target at 40 yards, or even six out of six in a ping pong-ball size target at 50 yards. To me, making a mandatory test for participation just opens the doors for anti-hunters to pursue new avenues to end such a wonderful tradition.

Do I wish newcomers would take more time for practice, tuning, etc., before heading for the woods? Sure. But I don't think a mandatory proficiency test is the answer.

RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
 

First, I have no problem with mandatory Bowhunter Education. I do, however, have a BIG problem with mandatory proficiency tests. Personally, I think AK hit the nail on the head.

I also disagree that it's an equipment issue either. Trad bows are capable of shooting as accurately as anything on the market. It's the shooter that makes the difference.

I had a hard time picking a quote that I wanted to counter, so please don't take this personally.

<font color=red>&quot;What I am seeing are persons who pass hunter safety courses here in NY that miss a 24&quot; target on the range @ 20yrds. Now these people are going to be out there without even the bare minimums...where is the sence in that?.&quot;</font id=red>

And? Are you assuming that the people that can't hit a 24&quot; target at 20 yards are going to shoot at deer at 20 yards? Maybe yes, maybe no. Goes back to proficiency tests not being able to regulate ethics. Everyone has a different effecive range. Mine will be different than yours, and yours will be different from the next person. What's the problem with that?

Case in point; I know a guy who's a die-hard trad bowhunter, like myself. We shot a 3D together this summer and he didn't do very well. The shots averaged about 20 yards and we scored &quot;kill / no kill&quot;. Out of the 40 animals on the course; I cleaned it, and he only had about 19 or so in the kill. He didn't care. Why not? Because he limits himself to about 10 yards and cleanly kills what he shoots. Five deer in the freezer last year with no wounding loss (including a 124 5/8&quot; whitetail) speak to his hunting abilities. His ethics are beyond reproach and he's one of the best assets to bowhunting in this state, but the guy absolutely stinks at 20 yards.

Why should this bowhunter be required to pass a proficiency test at 20 yards? Because someone thinks he needs to shoot better at 20 yards? He limits himself to HIS effective range (about 10 yards) and makes clean kills. He's happy and content with his effective range, so who are we to tell him any different?


Now, worst case scenario...

The State of Illinois institutes a mandatory proficiency test for bowhunters. Three out of five in a 6&quot; circle at 20 yards. Sounds innocent enough, right? Now, let's say our Governor-elect gun-grabber, Blagojevich, appoints a crew of tree-huggers to the DNR (we're hoping it doesn't happen). Now, let's say these new DNR higher-up don't like bowhunters and decide to make that proficiency test (that we handed them on a silver platter) 5 out of 5 in a 3&quot; circle at 50 yards. So much for bowhunting, huh?


Mandatory proficiency tests do nothing for our sport, in reality. They don't make sure that people stay within their effective range, or take good shots. At best, they're a warm & fuzzy PR move. At worst, they're a good way to watch our hunting rights go down the drain via over-regulation.

If they could actually do something positive for the sport I might half-way think them worthy of consideration. They don't, and I'm not.

JRW

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
 

&quot;ALRIGHT, I got my bowhunting proficiency card, I don't need to practice no more, I passed the test!!&quot;

People will go take this test and pass and think they are good enough to hunt, and they wont practice anymore.

I am against more government involvement in everything. It looks like Krisken is from NY, they require at least non-res to take a bowhunter education course. But in my opinion, NY has too many regs. Krisken has probably grown up with them and is very used to that attitude. Not picking on you Krisken, I was up in the Adirondacks this past October, very beautiful, with a lot of nice people. But, NY drives me nuts, people act like they can legislate idiots and immorrals to be smart and correct. Why would you want to government to tell you what you can and can't do?

And JRW is right, as soon as they can control things, someone we don't want to make decisions will be making them, and we are all screwed. Whats next, background checks and waiting periods on archery equipment? Someone is talking about registering serial numbers on bows and thats what you have to hunt with. Give me a break. Don't worry about what you have no control over, cause there isn't a thing you can do to stop people from doing what they want to do.

--Jim

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
 

Fuzzjockey FIRST I too hunt in MD. and where in your rule book does it say only people with hunting licese can go in the woods in hunting season? You friends can accompany you on a hunt they just can't hunt. SECOND where did you get your #'s on MD. loosing hunters? Last year MD. recorde record harvest's. Another thing you say your 2 friends will never hunt becouse they have to take a saftey course well my friend if your friends are too lazy to take a hunter's saftey course I am glad they are not in the woods. It seem's that people are crying about being over regulated don't even know the regulation's in their own state. Now my question is HOW ARE YOU OVER REGULATED? But since we are away from the subject that none of you can answer I have another question if you say people would take over the test and make it impossible to hunt then why in the heck have they not done it with the hunter's saftey coarse yet? Becouse they aren't going to. It would be run by the same type of people who run hunter's saftey coarse's (which are hunter's most are volenteer's)Krisken don't be swayed just yet these guy's baloney answer's will be countered every time. You guy's are just grabbing for some thing admit it you just don't want to be tested. It may not stop a person from taking a 50 yrd. shot or even from wounding but atleast they have practiced enough to be able to make that shot. To the guy crying becouse his buddy only shoots 10 yrds. I guess he wil;l just have to learn to shoot 20 it's not that much of distance sorry. I don't belive that he can't hit the broad side of a barn at 20 yrds. but at 10 he splits nocks baloney I have been around competion shooting too long. I know alot of guy's who shoot trad. and 20 yrds. is no problem for a traditional shooter so he'll just have to practice.

RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
 

Fair enough! After reading the replies , I can deffinately see more cons than pros in a competency test.
So , the big question still remains. What can we do about the &quot;idiots&quot; who feel perfectly comfortable with wildly slinging arrows at deer in hopes of hitting one? The ones who , for whatever reason , dont see the need to become as proficient as they can with their bow.
The only answer I can think of off hand is , each and every one of us needs to educate someone who falls in that category. Wether their seeking advice or not! If we all speak up when we encounter people like this , maybe we can make more of a difference than any competency test.

<---Doug---<<<

RE: are we over regulated as bow hunter's?
 

Anyone here can make good points for the pros and cons of a bow test. The biggest reason for me not wanting the test is regulating of hunting by people who know nothing about hunting. If you start calling for mandatory testing you should be ready to open the door for all sorts of people to add to those regulations. Look at all the new gun regulations in recent years. Look at other countries who can not even own guns any longer. Do you want to invite that into bow hunting? Here is a quote that I would like people to reread again and tell me if you don't think it is a possibility

&quot;Not trying to start a big argument, but here is why I believe it is definitely a bad idea to require a mandatory bowhunting &quot;competency&quot; exam before a person is allowed to hunt. In setting up such a program, you really need to worry about who might be involved in setting the standard for deciding whether or not you get to hunt. Old Joe Bob that is the head of your state wildlife commission right now just might decide that hitting six out of six on a paper plate at 20 yards is plenty good for certifying you to participate this year. But 5 years from now, your new governor might just appoint one or two more anti-hunting inclined wildlife commissioners to the board and give them the majority. Then who's to say that the new &quot;revised standard&quot; might not just become six out of six in a tennis-ball size target at 40 yards, or even six out of six in a ping pong-ball size target at 50 yards. To me, making a mandatory test for participation just opens the doors for anti-hunters to pursue new avenues to end such a wonderful tradition.&quot;

Who are you to tell me that I am not good enough to go hunting? You know all those old hunters that you are talking about who taught you the right way to hunt got along just fine without a test!!!

Why do we need one?

How are we over regulated in bowhunting? We are not but lets keep it that way because the alternative is revolting.

You can give all the situations you want but that still does not stop people from acting unethically. That is what you have a problem with.

How many of you know of someone who went in and bought a bow then went hunting the same day without ever practicing? I don't know about you but I am a good hunter with good woodsmanship skills and it took me 2 years with a bow for my first kill.

&quot;Reaper quote- don't be swayed just yet these guy's baloney answer's will be countered every time. You guy's are just grabbing for some thing admit it you just don't want to be tested. It may not stop a person from taking a 50 yrd. shot or even from wounding but atleast they have practiced enough to be able to make that shot. To the guy crying becouse his buddy only shoots 10 yrds. I guess he wil;l just have to learn to shoot 20 it's not that much of distance &quot;

I ask you again who decides for me what distance is right?

I say make the test 40 yards so that we can eliminate all those hunters that can't shoot under that distance and then we would have better hunters.

People will say that this idea is &quot;baloney&quot; but it would be a way to make everyone practice more if it were 40 yards wouldn't it?

Who decides the distance for me? You decide? Why don't we leave it like it was when all of our mentors learned and make it
my decision for me!!!



&quot; Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad&quot;