Help me understand.....
 

I hear this all the time and thought maybe we could discuss it here......[/align][/align]Help me understand the thoughtprocess of somethat bucks are somuch harder to kill than does?[/align][/align]Other than the ratio of does :bucks being tipped in favor of doesI can't really come up with anything other thendoesdo not lose their predictability throughout the fall like rutting bucks do.[/align][/align]An inexperienced young buck is the easiest animal in the woods to kill especially during the pre-rut, throughout the peak and into the post-rut. Most yearling bucks are just learning their new grounds from yearling displacement, they are experiencing theirfirst hunting season without the guidance of their mother and are totally new to the breeding game. [/align][/align]A doe on the other hand does not have excessive testosterone and the overwhelming urge to breed overcoming her senses causing her to make foolish moves day in and day out.[/align][/align]Mature deer arealways hard to kill buck or doe. Although mature bucks have a chink in their defenses during the rut making them more susceptible to falling to a hunter. I am willing to bet the number of4 1/2+ year old doe harvests aren't that much higher than4 1/2+ year old buck harvests. [/align][/align]What's your take? I am not looking for an arguement just an adultdiscussion. Let me see your point of view, perhaps it can shed some light on this topic for me.[/align][/align]Don't take this as Iam saying that killing deer is or is not easy. That is not what I am getting at. Ijust want to know why does are "easier" to kill then bucks.[/align]

RE: Help me understand.....
 

I don't think 3.5 year old does are any smarter or harder to kill than a comparable aged buck. I believe it is a sheer numbers thing, most of the northeast has probably 3-10 does of this age group compared to every 1 buck in this age group. I have been busted by these damn mature does more than any other critter in the woods............

RE: Help me understand.....
 

Actually i think alot of it depends on the hunting preasssure in your area, I know where I hunt youll get busted by a doe damned near every nite yet youll have a nice buck walk right under you every other day. Play the wind right and youll be good to go.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

An oldmatriarc doe is one of the toughest deer to kill imo.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

I agree, it's a sheer number issue but I couldn't agree more that a 1.5 yr old buck is easier to take than a crafty old doe....she's protector her and her fawn does or matriarch family, immature bucks are on their own.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

I don't believe it is the same for does and bucks. Once a doe reaches 3.5 or 4.5 years can be just as hard to kill than a buck of the same age. Once they have reached that age they have ran into a lot of things and learned what to do and what not to do.

I think when deer reach this age they have daily routines they stick to. Like finding a good bedding spot in which they can see things clearly in front of them and use the wind behind them to detect preditors. When moving I believe these deer use the wind at all times, walking into it and using there noses. During the rut bucksand does bothare more suseptable to screw upbecause the bucks are chasing and thedoes are bing chased.So I think they arebothmore likelyto lettheir guard down at times. In our area the smart bucks like to pushtheir hot does into the openand bed down with themin open fense lines because it makes them feel safer. Because in the open they can use their eyes and nose best, and they can keep track of their doe better in the open.

Thats my view on things

RE: Help me understand.....
 

A doe old or not is easier to kill than a mature buck, period.

A doe will not go nocturnal - she is hampered by yearlings - they are hungry thay make mistakes - she has to deal with them - she moves much more - and in a more regular pattern.

A mature buck is a loner - he does what he pleases - Yes he makes mistakes at times - and can do some dumb **** - but generally they are much more stealthy.

Mature bucks IMO are super paranoid and on edge - Like a bunch of Coke addicts running around thinking the Government is after them:)

RE: Help me understand.....
 

There are quite a few good points being made.
Especially does with fawns. They are kinda prone to make mistakes based on the young'uns. Or at least the preoccupation that the youngs ones take away from mom.

Also you know we are always asking how old is this buck or that buck...Never once have I seen that asked about a doe.
Buckeye may make a good point! What is the average age of our doe kills??

RE: Help me understand.....
 

I'm kind of with Rack.
A mature buck is harder to kill than a mature doe, based on personality. The buck will go nocturnal, and only has to worry about his survival. The doe has young that she needs to take to food and tend to. That's not saying the doe isn't wary or a worthy adversary, just that she has to take way more chances. Young bucks and does are fairly easy to kill. Young bucks cause they are really dumb, young does cause there are lots of them.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

While my buddy Rack makes some great and especially valid points, I gotta agree with this:

RE: Help me understand.....
 

OK - some good thoughts here, but are you ready for the truth?
Why is a buck harder to kill than a doe? It's the same with the human species: Superior Skill and Intellect ;)

RE: Help me understand.....
 

You've made some very good points. I believe that a mature buck, 4 1/2 years and older, is the hardest deer to kill. Super old does are very sharp, but they have one thing going for them. I believe that more often than not, does are passed on, whereas mature bucks are not. In short, I think that whatever has been shot at the most will be the most wary. Bucks are the most sought after deer so it makes sense that they are harder to kill.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

I would say old does are more difficult to kill because they survive more human encounters then bucks and get more opportunities to learn from. When older bucks encounter humans the percentage that survive is probably less than older does I would think.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

I think both doe and buck are equal in their survival skills and reflex reactions. I do think the mature doe is easier to pattern than old mossy horns. She goes from A to B and back where as the buck can really mix up his travel route and times. JMHO

RE: Help me understand.....
 

I always get a big thrill out of hiding from a mature does' ears, nose, and eyes.
Especially when she is with her fawns, she is extremely cautious!

Yes her overall pattern is still very predictable but her entire movement is based on caution with the fawns in mind.

Is she harder to hunt? I don't know. But I still get that rush whenever she is nearby!

RE: Help me understand.....
 

I think there's two things that play into this:
1.) Numbers; there's simply more does in the woods than bucks.
2.) Darwinism (survival of the fittest); an old mature buck that is still alive is alive because he is master of his craft. An old doe may still be alive just becasue she got passed up all her life, not because she's particularly crafty.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

Put one mature doe and one mature buck within the same property.......each will be equally as hard to kill.
Put several mature does and one or two mature bucks within the same property..........it will be easier to kill a mature doe simply because of the higher numbers of mature does.

Put young does and young bucks in the same category........both much easier to kill.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

Ya know Buckeye I don't understand it ether.
All I can say is those older bucks are pretty darn smart, than the younger ones.
The only time the does are somewhat careless is when they are being chased by a buck.
A mature buck thats been around awhile will stay back and watch the others, if they are safe then he'll come out.
When the rut is in full swing thats a whole diffrent ball game, its every buck for himself then.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

I see we are going on the laws of probibility here in a few repies.

I am not so much talking about the odds ofkilling one to the nextbut rather the difference between killing a buck and a doe.

As was mentioned by Cougarmag. If the ratio was 1:1 is a buck really harder to kill than a doe? Especially with age in consideration? In my opinion I think not. This is more what I am getting at.

Rack-attack I enjoyed your valid point and agree with fawns in tow a doe is more susceptible to fall to a hunter, than when they are solo.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

I say the reasons we are busted more often by does is simple. How many more does than bucks do we see every year? I can't speak for everyone, but I saw litterally hundreds of does last year, and I can count the bucks I saw on one hand. Didn't get busted by a single buck, but I was busted plenty by does. Obviously.

I also agree that the bucks, even at a 1:1 ratio would be harder to kill. It's just darn hard to kill something that don't move much till the sun goes down. Bucks are, IMHO, simply more nocturnal. Not much we can do about that.

You know, I just realized something. I've killed, oh, I don't know how many does, but I've ever only killed one buck. And that was w/ a rifle, so what the hell do I know? ........[&:][&o][&o][&o]

RE: Help me understand.....
 

Hands down its the monster bucks period. I hunt some place that are loaded with does and with quite a fewhuge bucks. I can't count the number of does orhuge bucks(with ingun range) butI can count on one hand the number of huge bucks with in bow range. Does may bust you becausethey smell you and/or notice that mass shouldn't hang off that tree. The only way they know this is because they were stupid enough to come in there in the first place! I did kill one doe because she came in with her little ones one time and wouldn't leave while keeping me from moving for 45 mins. She pissed me off that much I shot her. I had one other doe that had she shown up a third time a bust me and hang for a while, she was going down as well. I didn't see her the third time.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

I've read that the really old bucks don't even participate in the rut much. Oftentimes they will have few if any scars from sparring. They don't chase many does and do not breed often. I guess they're so old and experienced that they've decided that staying alive is more important than sex. These bucks may only be seen once a year and rarely even show up in trailcam photos. Can't remember where I read this,but it makes sense.

RE: Help me understand.....
 

Who enters the feild last !;)

RE: Help me understand.....
 

i saw a doe that was so smart theat we put out ear corn and she would NOT come out on the corn pile just stick her head out of the edge of the woods and pull an ear back in and eat it and almost got busted by her 4 times ol does are smart ol bucks just dont come out that often that is the main difference if you ask me

RE: Help me understand.....
 

Scientifically it is very simply. We shoot deer. Therefore the deer we don't shoot must have some advantage whether better since of smell, sight etc. We are selecting these deer that have not been shoot to breed with other deer and pass along those genes to their offspring. Then those deer have it and so forth. By us shooting young or old bucks (mostly we get the suggested dumber deer or deer that lack some special trait to help them survive the hunting season) this leaves the smarter deer (ones that have an advantage) to breed and pass along those traits. It is like darwin said, the strongest will survive. In a round about way these deer are harder to kill because of us...

RE: Help me understand.....
 

A mature doe is a worthy adversary! In my home area it is difficult to come to a conclusion because of the herd balance being so out of whack.There are so many more doe's than bucks that the sheer numbers have the doe's being so much more likely to be killed.
I definitely believe that a 41/2 year old buck or older is the most astute and aware deer that exists.It will respond to pressure immediately and is the most cautious and amped up deer there is.
I do believe though that doe's will become increasingly more difficult to kill as the season progresses and they are subjected to more and more pressure.I have seen doe groups become almost nocturnal and secluding themselves in the thickest cover they can find.
Last night I was glassinfg a field that had several deer in it.I was on a tree line with pretty good cover,the biggest bodied doe in the field saw me at over 200 yards away and stared at me for several minutes before she would go back to feeding.There were several younger doe's in the feild who never saw me and a 21/2 year old eight pointer who never saw me.She was so much more aware then these other deer.