WHA Question
07-14-2006, 01:27 PM
#71
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,621
RE: WHA Question
ORIGINAL: TxStarr
Let me start with a warning and an apology about the length of this post ... my husband would say he could have warned you about my wordiness a long time ago. I am going to attempt to be calm and logical but this whole idea hits a hot spot within me and makes it difficult. I think it does that with every hunter and that is the reason you are not getting the "logical" responses you claim you want. There is just something inherently wrong about this whole idea that it is difficult to see something other than red when the subject comes up.
I understand there are people out there who are opposed to killing an animal. I personally don't agree with killing just to kill. My husband and I hunt and eat what we kill -- as do all of our friends who hunt. That is one reason. Another reason is the friendships we have with other hunters and the experiences we can share together. I know, I know, the people who are hunting in the WHA can also have the friendship and experiences.
Here goes:
1. I realize there will be vets there and they will be monitering the drugging and checking the animals health and age. That still does not make it right. It seems to be cruel and inhumane to subject an animal to this over and over (because we know if it is a large buck they will all want it again and again) -- unless there is limit to the number of times an animal can be 'shot'. And I can hear you jumping up and down yelling "And killing the animal is not cruel and inhumane?!?!" Everybody I know practices and practices and practices and practices so that their aim is accurate and the animal does not suffer a needless, prolonged death. I remember how I felt when I came out of surgery and cannot imagine inflicting this on an animal ... who will not know why it was done and not understand why it feels the way it feels. It just seems to be demeaning to the animal. And people who do this on a regular basis to attach radio collars and track animals do not do it for money on TV. They do it for the benefit of the animal and to learn more about the animal. Repeat: not in it for the money. You seem to think these mature whitetail bucks won't learn anything the first time they get darted. I think after they get darted oncethey will become even harder to get. Look how quick they learn to avoid hunters once hunting season opens.To think these deer will just get shot over and over, I justdon't buy it.THIS IS SPIN #1 I guess I look at it, as a deer gets hit with a dart and falls asleep.
2. Does birth control work? For it to work you would have to administer it to every female in an area. Hmmm ... see that happening? And is the birth control 100% effective? I know mine is only 90 something percent effective. And if you want to use birth control just think of all the possible other problems that could cause. Kinda like a throwing a small stone in a pond and the ripples it causes. I'm not for the birth control. I just realize that antis might get the wild idea that this is a way to control populations without killing deer.
3. Who is saying that people who are against hunting will be in favor of this? Just because it is a 'catch and release' deosn't mean the anti-hunters will be for it. It just means they will see another reason to attack hunting and people who hunt. And, mentioning money -- Nonhunters may favor it over killing deer is what I am saying. Try asking a nonhunter you know how they feel about what WHA has planed.Ask someone thatdoesn't hunt.Explain it so they don't know how you feel. Listen to their response. I did. That's how I came up with what I said.
4. HUNTING IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. Just because there are people out there who make money to hunt doesn't mean they are there for the money. These are people who were hunting to begin with. These are people who would hunt to this day even if they were working as a construction worker, lawyer, banker, bartender, truck driver, pilot, etc. They just got lucky enough to get picked out of the group to hunt wonderful places and get paid to do it. Who among us wouldn't love to be paid to do what we love? Hunting is a way of life. It is how you live your life. It instills in you a sense of awe and reverence for life and respect for the animal(s) you are hunting. 'Just darting them for money' -- where is the respect and awe and reverence in that? And the people who get money for their world records and the replicas, etc ... they were not getting paid to hunt when they took the animal were they?If you watch any of the outdoor hunting type shows, you'll be seeing lots of guys getting paid to hunt. Look at all the DVD's, videos on the market today. Are those guys getting paid for hunting. Look at all the products and advertisements for hunting gear. Someone is getting paid. I believe they are called them Pro Staff members. Do all those people show a lack of respect for animals because they get MONEY for what they do? If " they are not out there for the money", what then?
5. Let's not forget that that 'dart' has drugs in it. How can drugging an animal not look bad? And can you really call it hunting if the only thing you will get out of it is money? Drugs? Drugs are in everything. You know how many drugs are given to beef cattle, swine, poultry?
If anti-hunters are opposed to the killing aspect ... let them give up eating all meat. Seriously. If you are opposed to someone killing an animal that they (or someone else) are going to eat then you should not be hypocritical. This means eating no meat -- none. Period. Just because we would also like a nice set of antlers with our meat doesn't overshadow the basic reasons for hunting. I agree 100% with you here. They shouldn't wash their pets with flea shampoo either. That flea has as much right to live on this planet as a majestic bighorn sheep. tell the antis that one, they don't know what to say.
Basically, hunters see this is a moral and ethical issue and they also see it is another reason for people who oppose hunting to criticize what we love. If we can stop it before it gets started then that is one less attack we have to contend with. I don't think hunters have all the facts to even decide. They don't have any facts. They just spin. Every one calls hunting gear Mfg.'s to get their opinion, then the jump on the band wagon. I this does go big, you will see many Mfg's change their stance when they see their compitition raking in the money. Watch and see.
Just my opinion in a non-name calling post. You've got to stand for something or you will fall for anything and this is where I am making my stand. This is wrong on all fronts. Whether you agree with me or not does not change that.
Shannon
ORIGINAL: Windwalker7
Whoa!!!! I just got home from work.
There are some things I've read that I question. I asked a few questions as to why people were so opposed to WHA in my original post. here is what I gather.
1.Animalsmay be injured or even killed in all this.Ok, first off my bow only shoots about 240fps and some of the paintball guns shoot much faster than this. I've been hit by quite a few paintballs. I'm sure the bows that are used in this won't be shooting anywhere near 300fps. I'm also sure these arespecially designed arrows also.Secondly, I thought the vetenarians that will be present were their to appese the anti/nonhunters to assure the deer was alright and they were to be present to gather information on that paticular deer's health and age. I believe they do something like this on all kinds of animals to attach radio collars and study their health.
I think this animal injury thing had alot of spin put on it, on here.
2. The antismay get weird ideas of using this dart system as a way to give birth control to deer. Yeah they might. I'm sure there are many areas in this country that the deer population is totally out of control.This may be an idea in places where deer can't be hunted safely.
3. The nonhunting public will not like this. I feel when the nonhunting public sees that a majority of hunters oppose this, it will confirm their beliefs, that hunters are blood thirsty killers and just want to KILL animals.
4. "True" hunters do not want these slobs to endanger their sport buy paying big money to competitors in the WHA. Look at the money payed to the holders of world record animals, especially deer. Endorsements, replicasof racks, shows, etc... I see alot of money going to those guys and none of you guys complain about that.
5. This makes hunting look bad. Does it? I feel people opposing this because they'd rather kill the deer makes hunters look bad. Yes, killing is part of hunting.That, in itself is why anti/nonhunters don't like hunting. So how you would think darting an animal will make hunting look worse, to the public, I don't understand.
As far as threatening to kick people off for namecalling, maybe you shoul reread some of the posts calling me Bunnyhugger,a Plant, a Slob, yeah I can take it. I haven't called any names yet. I just wanted to know why everyone was so irate about WHA. I fully expected to get ripped up one side and down the other and that's OK too.
Its all part of debating. Each person has their own views and sees what they want.
Whoa!!!! I just got home from work.
There are some things I've read that I question. I asked a few questions as to why people were so opposed to WHA in my original post. here is what I gather.
1.Animalsmay be injured or even killed in all this.Ok, first off my bow only shoots about 240fps and some of the paintball guns shoot much faster than this. I've been hit by quite a few paintballs. I'm sure the bows that are used in this won't be shooting anywhere near 300fps. I'm also sure these arespecially designed arrows also.Secondly, I thought the vetenarians that will be present were their to appese the anti/nonhunters to assure the deer was alright and they were to be present to gather information on that paticular deer's health and age. I believe they do something like this on all kinds of animals to attach radio collars and study their health.
I think this animal injury thing had alot of spin put on it, on here.
2. The antismay get weird ideas of using this dart system as a way to give birth control to deer. Yeah they might. I'm sure there are many areas in this country that the deer population is totally out of control.This may be an idea in places where deer can't be hunted safely.
3. The nonhunting public will not like this. I feel when the nonhunting public sees that a majority of hunters oppose this, it will confirm their beliefs, that hunters are blood thirsty killers and just want to KILL animals.
4. "True" hunters do not want these slobs to endanger their sport buy paying big money to competitors in the WHA. Look at the money payed to the holders of world record animals, especially deer. Endorsements, replicasof racks, shows, etc... I see alot of money going to those guys and none of you guys complain about that.
5. This makes hunting look bad. Does it? I feel people opposing this because they'd rather kill the deer makes hunters look bad. Yes, killing is part of hunting.That, in itself is why anti/nonhunters don't like hunting. So how you would think darting an animal will make hunting look worse, to the public, I don't understand.
As far as threatening to kick people off for namecalling, maybe you shoul reread some of the posts calling me Bunnyhugger,a Plant, a Slob, yeah I can take it. I haven't called any names yet. I just wanted to know why everyone was so irate about WHA. I fully expected to get ripped up one side and down the other and that's OK too.
Its all part of debating. Each person has their own views and sees what they want.
I understand there are people out there who are opposed to killing an animal. I personally don't agree with killing just to kill. My husband and I hunt and eat what we kill -- as do all of our friends who hunt. That is one reason. Another reason is the friendships we have with other hunters and the experiences we can share together. I know, I know, the people who are hunting in the WHA can also have the friendship and experiences.
Here goes:
1. I realize there will be vets there and they will be monitering the drugging and checking the animals health and age. That still does not make it right. It seems to be cruel and inhumane to subject an animal to this over and over (because we know if it is a large buck they will all want it again and again) -- unless there is limit to the number of times an animal can be 'shot'. And I can hear you jumping up and down yelling "And killing the animal is not cruel and inhumane?!?!" Everybody I know practices and practices and practices and practices so that their aim is accurate and the animal does not suffer a needless, prolonged death. I remember how I felt when I came out of surgery and cannot imagine inflicting this on an animal ... who will not know why it was done and not understand why it feels the way it feels. It just seems to be demeaning to the animal. And people who do this on a regular basis to attach radio collars and track animals do not do it for money on TV. They do it for the benefit of the animal and to learn more about the animal. Repeat: not in it for the money. You seem to think these mature whitetail bucks won't learn anything the first time they get darted. I think after they get darted oncethey will become even harder to get. Look how quick they learn to avoid hunters once hunting season opens.To think these deer will just get shot over and over, I justdon't buy it.THIS IS SPIN #1 I guess I look at it, as a deer gets hit with a dart and falls asleep.
2. Does birth control work? For it to work you would have to administer it to every female in an area. Hmmm ... see that happening? And is the birth control 100% effective? I know mine is only 90 something percent effective. And if you want to use birth control just think of all the possible other problems that could cause. Kinda like a throwing a small stone in a pond and the ripples it causes. I'm not for the birth control. I just realize that antis might get the wild idea that this is a way to control populations without killing deer.
3. Who is saying that people who are against hunting will be in favor of this? Just because it is a 'catch and release' deosn't mean the anti-hunters will be for it. It just means they will see another reason to attack hunting and people who hunt. And, mentioning money -- Nonhunters may favor it over killing deer is what I am saying. Try asking a nonhunter you know how they feel about what WHA has planed.Ask someone thatdoesn't hunt.Explain it so they don't know how you feel. Listen to their response. I did. That's how I came up with what I said.
4. HUNTING IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. Just because there are people out there who make money to hunt doesn't mean they are there for the money. These are people who were hunting to begin with. These are people who would hunt to this day even if they were working as a construction worker, lawyer, banker, bartender, truck driver, pilot, etc. They just got lucky enough to get picked out of the group to hunt wonderful places and get paid to do it. Who among us wouldn't love to be paid to do what we love? Hunting is a way of life. It is how you live your life. It instills in you a sense of awe and reverence for life and respect for the animal(s) you are hunting. 'Just darting them for money' -- where is the respect and awe and reverence in that? And the people who get money for their world records and the replicas, etc ... they were not getting paid to hunt when they took the animal were they?If you watch any of the outdoor hunting type shows, you'll be seeing lots of guys getting paid to hunt. Look at all the DVD's, videos on the market today. Are those guys getting paid for hunting. Look at all the products and advertisements for hunting gear. Someone is getting paid. I believe they are called them Pro Staff members. Do all those people show a lack of respect for animals because they get MONEY for what they do? If " they are not out there for the money", what then?
5. Let's not forget that that 'dart' has drugs in it. How can drugging an animal not look bad? And can you really call it hunting if the only thing you will get out of it is money? Drugs? Drugs are in everything. You know how many drugs are given to beef cattle, swine, poultry?
If anti-hunters are opposed to the killing aspect ... let them give up eating all meat. Seriously. If you are opposed to someone killing an animal that they (or someone else) are going to eat then you should not be hypocritical. This means eating no meat -- none. Period. Just because we would also like a nice set of antlers with our meat doesn't overshadow the basic reasons for hunting. I agree 100% with you here. They shouldn't wash their pets with flea shampoo either. That flea has as much right to live on this planet as a majestic bighorn sheep. tell the antis that one, they don't know what to say.
Basically, hunters see this is a moral and ethical issue and they also see it is another reason for people who oppose hunting to criticize what we love. If we can stop it before it gets started then that is one less attack we have to contend with. I don't think hunters have all the facts to even decide. They don't have any facts. They just spin. Every one calls hunting gear Mfg.'s to get their opinion, then the jump on the band wagon. I this does go big, you will see many Mfg's change their stance when they see their compitition raking in the money. Watch and see.
Just my opinion in a non-name calling post. You've got to stand for something or you will fall for anything and this is where I am making my stand. This is wrong on all fronts. Whether you agree with me or not does not change that.
Shannon
I would rather know some facts before I decide my stance not jump on the band wagon.
Are they hunting ranches or enclosures?
Are there weight or speed limits on the bows used?
Is ther a specially designed arrow that is used to cushin the blow?
Do they shoot for the ribcage or the hindquarter?
These are some of the questions I'd like answered before I decide.
Apparently others would rather put a spin on things instead of getting real answers.
Spin;
1. 300fps bows
2. hunting in small fences
3. deer walking around all drugged up
4. vets are there to make sure the animals don't die from the severe injuries the will recieve
Come on guys. Get some facts before we debate this. Facts not assumptions
07-14-2006, 01:30 PM
#72
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: May 2005
Location: One mile east of West Podunk Tx
Posts: 5,973
RE: WHA Question
Since the source is SOUTH AFRICAN TOURISM, I have to assume, yes, assume it is another money driven operation. I'm also assuming alot about the wha. For instance I assume the arrows are going to be traveling at a high rate of speed. If not I wouldn't mind being corrected. Someone somewhere makes mention of arguing with "ignorant morons". Well I'm no moron but I am ignorant about a topic until I am taught about said topic. So, maybe someone like Bowsmacker who gives the impression that he is in the know could educate me and help rid the world of ignorance. How fast are the arrows traveling? What precautions are being taken to make sure these arrows will not harm the deer? Do you know the facts or are you ASSUMING they will be non-harmful? If any of you pro-wha posters know the facts please educate the ignorant. I keep reading about facts and only read opinion. I am in general an open minded person. At this point I am strongly against wha and all it stands for and I have yet to hear an argument that will make me alter my view. I don't for a minute believe it will bring non-hunters to the ranks of hunters. It takes a friend, family member or mentor to do such a thing. I will do my part by inviting a non-hunting coworker on a hunt this fall. I think getting a person into the woods and OFF the couch will do much more for hunting than another reason to stay in front of the TV ever will. BTW I can't believe a non-hunter would be interested in watching anyway.
07-14-2006, 01:33 PM
#73
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 343
RE: WHA Question
ORIGINAL: TxStarr
Actually, the description on that site for the dart hunt is:
South Africa Rhino Dart Hunt:
5 Days, Fully Guided. Includes All Veterinary & Taxidermy Equipment, Accommodations & Meals.
$6,900.00
I am assuming that since they offer taxidermy service with this hunt that means that you are harvesting an animal and not simply knocking it out? That makes it hunting with a dart ... a traditional method of hunting in Africa and other countries (although they blew the poisoned darts out of a reed and this did not say how the dart was to be administered). Nowhere did I see the word tranqualizer. Did I miss something else on the page?
Shannon
ORIGINAL: Cabelas4Toys
The surprising thing is that this isn't really a brand new idea.
If you go to the website for Bullseye Outfitters (an outfitter used by Ralph and Vicki of the Archer's Choice and some of the other popular pro hunters) you'll see that they offer a 5 day traquilizer dart rhino hunt for $6,900.
http://www.bullseyeoutfitters.com/africa_hunts.html
This hunt has even been featured on American Archer on the Outdoor Channel recently. Yet I havn't heard a big backlash against it.
The surprising thing is that this isn't really a brand new idea.
If you go to the website for Bullseye Outfitters (an outfitter used by Ralph and Vicki of the Archer's Choice and some of the other popular pro hunters) you'll see that they offer a 5 day traquilizer dart rhino hunt for $6,900.
http://www.bullseyeoutfitters.com/africa_hunts.html
This hunt has even been featured on American Archer on the Outdoor Channel recently. Yet I havn't heard a big backlash against it.
South Africa Rhino Dart Hunt:
5 Days, Fully Guided. Includes All Veterinary & Taxidermy Equipment, Accommodations & Meals.
$6,900.00
I am assuming that since they offer taxidermy service with this hunt that means that you are harvesting an animal and not simply knocking it out? That makes it hunting with a dart ... a traditional method of hunting in Africa and other countries (although they blew the poisoned darts out of a reed and this did not say how the dart was to be administered). Nowhere did I see the word tranqualizer. Did I miss something else on the page?
Shannon
As you can see above South Africa is promoting tranquilizer dart hunting, not just of Rhino's but all the big 5 species. Do a google search of dart hunting and you'll find several sites featuring tranquilizer hunts. They claim that "Importantly, animals are only earmarked for darting for specific scientific or research purposes, never for commercial reasons alone." yet it appears that it very much is a commercial venture.
Assuming that this continues to be supported and grow in Africa canit be more than a matter of time before you begin to see it spread to other locations?It's already been aired on at least one major hunting show without any appreciable negative response that I've seen.
If proponents of this WHA tour can point to evidence that this exact same type of hunting is already going on with success in other parts of the world then they may find themselves with some support from the nonhunters. Granted a rhino has a lot thicker skin than a deer but if they can safely shoot a lion or leopard with a dart tipped arrow and show no ill effects then it's likely they could convince people that it would not be dangerous to deer.
07-14-2006, 01:39 PM
#74
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: East Texas
Posts: 367
RE: WHA Question
ORIGINAL: Cabelas4Toys
'Green hunting' the Big Five
18 July 2005
Code of ethics
Importantly, animals are only earmarked for darting for specific scientific or research purposes, never for commercial reasons alone.
Purposes can include the translocation of animals to a new environment, ear notching or fitting microchips for identification, blood and tissue collection, radio collaring for tracking animal movement, and operating or treating wounds.
Bartels says a downside of dart safaris is that you can't just "pick up a gun and go hunting". There is more planning, many people and precise coordination needed for a dart safari.
Along with hunting associations, the South African Veterinary Society also ensures strict ethics and controls on dart safaris to ensure the well being of wildlife at all times.
Source: South African Tourism
'Green hunting' the Big Five
18 July 2005
Code of ethics
Importantly, animals are only earmarked for darting for specific scientific or research purposes, never for commercial reasons alone.
Purposes can include the translocation of animals to a new environment, ear notching or fitting microchips for identification, blood and tissue collection, radio collaring for tracking animal movement, and operating or treating wounds.
Bartels says a downside of dart safaris is that you can't just "pick up a gun and go hunting". There is more planning, many people and precise coordination needed for a dart safari.
Along with hunting associations, the South African Veterinary Society also ensures strict ethics and controls on dart safaris to ensure the well being of wildlife at all times.
Source: South African Tourism
Am I the only one seeing the differences in 'green-hunting' and WHA?
Shannon
07-14-2006, 01:39 PM
#75
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast, VA
Posts: 2,119
RE: WHA Question
Someone reply to my post from earlier, please. I can't be the only one out there. I mean how many people post the same thing about the WHA. We allknow whatis wrong with their plan (everything right now), but there are bigger issues than the WHA. As it is now, hunting is not going anywhere unless we let it. Hunting is more endangerbecause loss of land and falling numbers than the WHA. I am not pro WHA by any means but seriouslytranquilizing willNEVERbe substituted for hunting no matter who pushes it. Ahhhhhhhhh!!!! The sky is falling. Thats what this sounds like. Why can't we come up with this much rallying behind positive things that may help our sport. Like new hunter recruitment plans/programs, more people ( US, YOU and ME, HUNTERS) taking the time to introduce people to our sport. From kids to adults, there are tons of people that are interested in hunting and just need someone to give them a spark. I take new people every year. I take my kids, friends kids, buddies from work, anyone who shows interest and I trust to be safe and responsible. How about you?? The future of hunting is in our hands!! Not the anti's, not the WHA. Am I way off base here?? The WHAcan't survive for one simple reason: Hunters don't support it. A hunting organization that all hunters hate and has little to no support from the entire hunting community (doesn't sound like a good business idea to me) and the people trying to push this thing can feel this vibe too. But really what else can we do (other than submit posts bashing the WHA) to help ourselves. Honestly, I hunt with lots of people, rarelydo I see new faces (unless I bring them). SometimesI do but sometimes is not enough. Hunting is often a solitary sport, I mean really who wants to atake time outfrom chasing that buck they've been watching to take some new guy/girl/child out. Trust me, I understand. But that one time you do and that newperson gets a crack at a deer or is lucky enough to get one that's what it's all about. You might spark that hunter's fire in someone and rekindle yours a little too! And you thought you were long winded Shannon, sorry for the length but we have so many good hunters that post here andI believe we all want the same thing, to protect hunting and ensure a good future for hunting for ourselves, our children, their children. I understand peoples views on the WHA and why it causes so much hostility, but letsalso focus on positive things we can do to support what we love.
07-14-2006, 01:41 PM
#76
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,621
RE: WHA Question
ORIGINAL: txrookie
Since the source is SOUTH AFRICAN TOURISM, I have to assume, yes, assume it is another money driven operation. I'm also assuming alot about the wha. For instance I assume the arrows are going to be traveling at a high rate of speed. If not I wouldn't mind being corrected. Someone somewhere makes mention of arguing with "ignorant morons". Well I'm no moron but I am ignorant about a topic until I am taught about said topic. So, maybe someone like Bowsmacker who gives the impression that he is in the know could educate me and help rid the world of ignorance. How fast are the arrows traveling? What precautions are being taken to make sure these arrows will not harm the deer? Do you know the facts or are you ASSUMING they will be non-harmful? If any of you pro-wha posters know the facts please educate the ignorant. I keep reading about facts and only read opinion.
Since the source is SOUTH AFRICAN TOURISM, I have to assume, yes, assume it is another money driven operation. I'm also assuming alot about the wha. For instance I assume the arrows are going to be traveling at a high rate of speed. If not I wouldn't mind being corrected. Someone somewhere makes mention of arguing with "ignorant morons". Well I'm no moron but I am ignorant about a topic until I am taught about said topic. So, maybe someone like Bowsmacker who gives the impression that he is in the know could educate me and help rid the world of ignorance. How fast are the arrows traveling? What precautions are being taken to make sure these arrows will not harm the deer? Do you know the facts or are you ASSUMING they will be non-harmful? If any of you pro-wha posters know the facts please educate the ignorant. I keep reading about facts and only read opinion.
That is exactly what I am asking for, facts. Many have already decided their stance based on what others have decided. I WANT TO KNOW MORE BEFORE I DECIDE.
WHO KNOWS,I MAY COME OUT ON YOUR SIDE IF GIVEN THE FACTS
Until then, I will debate what I perceive as SPIN.
I hope no one is offended. I just would like to know the ins and outs of this whole thing without people spinning things out of control and making assumptions and using that to change others minds.
07-14-2006, 01:49 PM
#78
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lake County, Il
Posts: 2,205
RE: WHA Question
OK so they can learn a lot about their captive herds in the enclosures using this system. I would think they already do that to study their animals and their DNA whatever. It still boils down to an eventual use of this system to get clients to pay for a photo for a trophy animal. I think the contest would be an infomercial for the guide/owner. I don't believe the DNR anywhere would allow this outside of game ranches. Deer need to be harvested annually to keep populations in check. I believe windwalker is probably correct in that these deer may become educated to the tranquilizers,but probably not. Many veterinary drugs have an amnesia effect, the reason some have been used as date-rape drugs. The way I see it this is just a way to make money for themselves,I'm against it but I don't see it going mainstream anytime soon, and I doubt anyone will ban hunting.
07-14-2006, 02:00 PM
#79
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 343
RE: WHA Question
ORIGINAL: TxStarr
So basically someone is paying to tranqualize an animal for scientific and/or research purposes and so the Vet Society can learn about the migration patterns, etc of the animals? They are not drugging the animal just to score it? And the person who fires the dart is not going to make loads of money (is in fact PAYING money for this)? And these animals are not born and raised in an enclosed area?
Am I the only one seeing the differences in 'green-hunting' and WHA?
Shannon
So basically someone is paying to tranqualize an animal for scientific and/or research purposes and so the Vet Society can learn about the migration patterns, etc of the animals? They are not drugging the animal just to score it? And the person who fires the dart is not going to make loads of money (is in fact PAYING money for this)? And these animals are not born and raised in an enclosed area?
Am I the only one seeing the differences in 'green-hunting' and WHA?
Shannon
"So basically someone is paying to tranqualize an animal for scientific and/or research purposes and so the Vet Society can learn about the migration patterns, etc of the animals?"
I guess if you accept on theface their statement that it is strictly for research and not for commercial reasons then you could try to make an argument but when they're getting thousands of dollars from clients willing to pay to shoot these animals do you really think it can be solely managed in the interest of science? I'm sure that the needs of science will be adjusted to meet whatever demand there may be for animals to dart. It's all about money or the "scientists" wouldn't be allowing amateurs to fling dart tipped arrows at them to begin with.
"They are not drugging the animal just to score it? And the person who fires the dart is not going to make loads of money (is in fact PAYING money for this)?"
In effect is is darting them just to score it, at least from the hunters perspective. Some measurements will be taken (I'm sure whatever scoring system is used on that particular species will be measured and documented for the "hunter") a bunch of trophy pictures will be shot and a lot of back slaping will ensue. Is it really a stretch to envision that being a whitetail in those pictures and the "hunter" hoping that nobody darts a bigger deer so he can win some prize money to boot? Money is exchanging hands either way, large sums of money, and the practice has already made its way onto television.
"And these animals are not born and raised in an enclosed area?"
Actually, my understanding is that most hunting in South Africa takes place on fenced game preserves. Larger than the 1,200 acres that was mentioned earlier in this thread for sure but maybe not larger than say a good sized Texas fenced operation. I guess I'm not sure where the dividing line on fair chase vs. unethical is. Is 1,500 acres too small? How about 10,000? 20,000? 50,000?
07-14-2006, 02:09 PM
#80
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast, VA
Posts: 2,119
RE: WHA Question
I went dove hunting once with a blow-gun and tranquilizer darts. It didn't go well, I inhaled a dart it stuck in my throat and I looked like Will Farrell in the movie "Old School".Just kidding.