WHA Question
07-12-2006, 08:31 PM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: WHA Question
ORIGINAL: bowsmacker
Those polls are BS. First of all, they hadNO factual data behind them before they asked the question. I wont go into those polls becuase this is Huntingnet and Huntingnet sees the WHA as competition.
You are on your computer way too much if you really believe hunting chat rooms are representative of hunters. The only people that speak up are the bitter crybabies on this site and the others...Ive been over at AT for a long time and its the same ole stuff. Bunch of babies that hide behind screens and cant make a decent argument when one is brought up upon them. Instead they personally attack you and call you an idiot or say you are an anti, or in this case a "plant"...
Windwalker made an observation and offered some discussion, but again people go attacking him just like everyone else when they speak up. Didnt you ever think that some good people around here (like Windwalker)just dont like to argue with people they dont know or frankly they dont want to waste their breath because these forums were supposed to be for hunters to help hunters, not argue amongst them. Those people PM me over at Archery Talk and say "im not wasting my time on those guys"...
If you havent noticed, sitting here trying to open peoples minds to other ideas is an exhausting one.
Im gonna go have a glass of wine and catch up on emails. I will check back later and seeif any of thefreaks come out tonight on this thread
Those polls are BS. First of all, they hadNO factual data behind them before they asked the question. I wont go into those polls becuase this is Huntingnet and Huntingnet sees the WHA as competition.
You are on your computer way too much if you really believe hunting chat rooms are representative of hunters. The only people that speak up are the bitter crybabies on this site and the others...Ive been over at AT for a long time and its the same ole stuff. Bunch of babies that hide behind screens and cant make a decent argument when one is brought up upon them. Instead they personally attack you and call you an idiot or say you are an anti, or in this case a "plant"...
Windwalker made an observation and offered some discussion, but again people go attacking him just like everyone else when they speak up. Didnt you ever think that some good people around here (like Windwalker)just dont like to argue with people they dont know or frankly they dont want to waste their breath because these forums were supposed to be for hunters to help hunters, not argue amongst them. Those people PM me over at Archery Talk and say "im not wasting my time on those guys"...
If you havent noticed, sitting here trying to open peoples minds to other ideas is an exhausting one.
Im gonna go have a glass of wine and catch up on emails. I will check back later and seeif any of thefreaks come out tonight on this thread
Debate on.
07-12-2006, 08:52 PM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,102
RE: WHA Question
My comments were directed at you not windwalker.I was referring to the polls where hunters voted yea or nea on the site itself.Why is it that some of the most reputable manufacturers in the industry have come out strongly against it? Because they are principaled people and they are smart enough not to alienate their clientele.
Any one who is a true hunter is a purist and if this doesn't sicken them to their very core there is something seriously wrong!The WHA is a BS idea that has no possible benefit to hunters!
You can save your propaganda Horse S--t,I don't want to hear it.I am not argumentative but on certain issues you have to take a stand on whats right!
Any one who is a true hunter is a purist and if this doesn't sicken them to their very core there is something seriously wrong!The WHA is a BS idea that has no possible benefit to hunters!
You can save your propaganda Horse S--t,I don't want to hear it.I am not argumentative but on certain issues you have to take a stand on whats right!
07-12-2006, 09:02 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana PA USA
Posts: 3,656
RE: WHA Question
Here is the thing, the WHA is portraying hunting in a negative way. You can sit there and talk about how it will bring new people to the sport of hunting but guess what, they aren't watching HUNTING, they are watching a couple of nut jobs flingin darts at animals so they can make the all mighty dollar. Whats gonna happen when these people who watch the WHA on t.v. and decide "hey, i'm gonna try that" and they get out into the woods and suddenly it hits them, this ain't a dart and that deer is gonna die. Do you actually think that somebody who doesn't believe in hunting is going to be drawn into the sport by a show that has guys doing things that actual hunters would be arressted for if they did the same thing on public ground? If you actually believe that you are just grabbing for straws.
Now, you believe that the public is going to welcome this idea and to some extent this may be true, BUT.... by showing them this it makes the true hunters, the one who actually KILL the animals they are after, look like cold blooded killers. The WHA is stepping on all hunters images to get what they want..... money. They are indirectly making hunting look bad just in an attempt to make their "darting league" look better and I have a serious problem with that.
As far as bringing money into the economy, ect... blah, blah, blah.... how many people do you honestly think this is going to attract to the sport? How much of a differance do you think this willmake to the economy?
Their is a rich tradition in hunting that goes back further than any and all of us.... it has been there since before our great great grandfathers were born.... and the WHA issoiling that heritage. I know that I am a animal, a predator, and I have the natural instinct to hunt and kill my ownfood, this is something that has been passed down through generations and something I believe strongly in, my great grandmother was full blooded native american and i would hate to see what her and her family would think of the WHA if they were still around.
Bottom line is the WHA is portraying all true hunters in a bad light so they can make their organization seem better, and they are only doing this for money, they don't care about hunting in its TRUE form. I would love to see Mr. Farbman come to Pennsylvania and try laying some of his B.S. on the old-timers in this state!
Now, you believe that the public is going to welcome this idea and to some extent this may be true, BUT.... by showing them this it makes the true hunters, the one who actually KILL the animals they are after, look like cold blooded killers. The WHA is stepping on all hunters images to get what they want..... money. They are indirectly making hunting look bad just in an attempt to make their "darting league" look better and I have a serious problem with that.
As far as bringing money into the economy, ect... blah, blah, blah.... how many people do you honestly think this is going to attract to the sport? How much of a differance do you think this willmake to the economy?
Their is a rich tradition in hunting that goes back further than any and all of us.... it has been there since before our great great grandfathers were born.... and the WHA issoiling that heritage. I know that I am a animal, a predator, and I have the natural instinct to hunt and kill my ownfood, this is something that has been passed down through generations and something I believe strongly in, my great grandmother was full blooded native american and i would hate to see what her and her family would think of the WHA if they were still around.
Bottom line is the WHA is portraying all true hunters in a bad light so they can make their organization seem better, and they are only doing this for money, they don't care about hunting in its TRUE form. I would love to see Mr. Farbman come to Pennsylvania and try laying some of his B.S. on the old-timers in this state!
07-12-2006, 09:03 PM
#24
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 22
RE: WHA Question
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
That is exactly what the WHA is doing, wounding the livestock and not killing it, but oh, it's okay cause they have a vet handy.... how many hunts have you been on where you take a vet along to make sure the animal is okay...bunny huggers would love that one at least.
You are dodging the question....My statement was regarding what hunting is. The other guy said it wasnt about the harvest it was about everything before and after. Stick to the issue at hand. Darting a deer is hardly the same as taking a montek in the gut, leg or other.
How far does the WHA have to "hunt" for these livestock that are in a pen and can't leave....I bet that's a hard "hunt".
You are making assumptions now. Its a 1,200 acre ranch and they are hunting 4 guys on the property at a time. Thats a decent spread compared to the average acreage available for a public land hunter in Miichigan, which is about 25 acres eachof state land. I have never hunted in an enclosure but I know people that have and it aint to walk in the park...In many ways its harder to get the big bucks in an enclosure to even show themselves around hunting season. But I guess you are assuming they ring a dinner bell and they come running to the blind...thats a horrible assumption and I would say that the Brett Hankin's of the world would never participate in something like that.
I'll never get that, he purposely paints hunters in a bad light which undermines hunting and hunters so why would any hunter want to stand behind him. Seems more like your quoting from an PETA bible rather than a real hunter. I'd find it hard to believe that an organization such as the WHA would result into attacking hunter to get their agenda acrossed, hhhmmm sounds familiar doesn't it...I'll give you a hint.....P....E....T....A...
You are a total moron if you think James Swan PhD is in PETA or his literature even closesly resembles something of a "PETA bible"...those are the facts and you arent facing them. Go read the article. Its a long one so I will give you a few hours if you need it. Then come back and tell me he is a PETA guy. Better off, go google him and let me know what you think, that should only take you a few minutes.
Because that is not traditional hunting.
Sothey cant educate through an entertainment portal like TV and show everything involved in traditional hunting except the killing part but they convey that they just shot 100 does a few weeks back and they have a website loaded with traditional hunting stories, pictures and video. I would think those educational aspects also apply to traditional hunting. Disclaimers will be made for sure. They wouldnt hang themselves to say that this is the only acceptable method of hunting by the WHA...are you kidding me? If you hunt, you hunt. If you dart you tranquilze and sedate and revive. If you kill, well you hope you kill. Let me say it one more time...If you hunt an animal, you are hunting! Its pretty easy, say it 10 times in a row and you might get it.
And hopefully the show will denounce the WHA and show that hunters across the nation are against it. That alone will paint hunters in a better light. We kill animals but we still care about the animals and that is why you'll see a hunter put his life in danger to save an animal otherwise dying insufferably.
Or gosh I never thought about it but maybe it could be all about everything leading up to the shot thatwounds the deer but doesnt kill it?
You are dodging the question....My statement was regarding what hunting is. The other guy said it wasnt about the harvest it was about everything before and after. Stick to the issue at hand. Darting a deer is hardly the same as taking a montek in the gut, leg or other.
To me its all hunting because to get close to an animal in order to do all of the above you have to "hunt" the animal.
You are making assumptions now. Its a 1,200 acre ranch and they are hunting 4 guys on the property at a time. Thats a decent spread compared to the average acreage available for a public land hunter in Miichigan, which is about 25 acres eachof state land. I have never hunted in an enclosure but I know people that have and it aint to walk in the park...In many ways its harder to get the big bucks in an enclosure to even show themselves around hunting season. But I guess you are assuming they ring a dinner bell and they come running to the blind...thats a horrible assumption and I would say that the Brett Hankin's of the world would never participate in something like that.
Here are a few quotes in his article:
"The Fish & Wildlife survey also asked about the image of the hunter. The response provides insight into the vulnerability of hunting. Sixty-two percent of those surveyed believed that "a lot" of hunters broke hunting laws or practiced unsafe behavior, such as drinking to excess and firing guns recklessly. These polls show that the non-hunting majority don't have much of a problem with HUNTING, but they do have a problem with HUNTERS....if hunting is going to survive this negative image has to be changed."
"The people that must be reached are those who may not have ever fired a gun, sat in a duck blind, or thrilled at taking your first buck. Non-hunters need to understand the drama, excitement and motivations of the ethical hunter, but prime time shows with hunting as a major or minor theme are about as a common as white deer."
You really need to read the entire article to understand my point. Or maybe you just wont ever get it.
"The Fish & Wildlife survey also asked about the image of the hunter. The response provides insight into the vulnerability of hunting. Sixty-two percent of those surveyed believed that "a lot" of hunters broke hunting laws or practiced unsafe behavior, such as drinking to excess and firing guns recklessly. These polls show that the non-hunting majority don't have much of a problem with HUNTING, but they do have a problem with HUNTERS....if hunting is going to survive this negative image has to be changed."
"The people that must be reached are those who may not have ever fired a gun, sat in a duck blind, or thrilled at taking your first buck. Non-hunters need to understand the drama, excitement and motivations of the ethical hunter, but prime time shows with hunting as a major or minor theme are about as a common as white deer."
You really need to read the entire article to understand my point. Or maybe you just wont ever get it.
You are a total moron if you think James Swan PhD is in PETA or his literature even closesly resembles something of a "PETA bible"...those are the facts and you arent facing them. Go read the article. Its a long one so I will give you a few hours if you need it. Then come back and tell me he is a PETA guy. Better off, go google him and let me know what you think, that should only take you a few minutes.
Unfortunately, you cant go kill deer on primetime so why not dart them and get their attention and also educate them about traditional hunting.
Sothey cant educate through an entertainment portal like TV and show everything involved in traditional hunting except the killing part but they convey that they just shot 100 does a few weeks back and they have a website loaded with traditional hunting stories, pictures and video. I would think those educational aspects also apply to traditional hunting. Disclaimers will be made for sure. They wouldnt hang themselves to say that this is the only acceptable method of hunting by the WHA...are you kidding me? If you hunt, you hunt. If you dart you tranquilze and sedate and revive. If you kill, well you hope you kill. Let me say it one more time...If you hunt an animal, you are hunting! Its pretty easy, say it 10 times in a row and you might get it.
Darting isnt legal outside of a fence and the public cant get the drugs to do it anyway...This can be an opportunity to get primetime coverage. Hell its alreadymaking its wayafter the Daily Show does their little run thru of this controversy.
07-12-2006, 09:15 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana PA USA
Posts: 3,656
RE: WHA Question
I suppose you have never watch the Daily Show. In case you dont, be informed that this is a station on Comedy Central. This is a show that more people between the ages of 14 and 30 go to get their news than CNN. John Stewert is going to make "hunters" look bad, especially the ones opposing it when he asks them so "killing is ethical, but darting them isnt???" "Hunting with darts is not hunting, but hunting with guns and dogs is?"....Those poor guys that really think they are gonna come out shining are gonna look like morons when they air the show. Personally, I will be embarrassed for ALL hunters but Im gonna laugh my butt off because I saw it coming from a long way away.
07-12-2006, 09:24 PM
#26
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 22
RE: WHA Question
ORIGINAL: lte_622
you cant just put a dart on the end of an arrow and expect it not to pass thru an arro with no point can bary a good six inches in a bag target just imagine passing through soft tissue!!!!!!
you cant just put a dart on the end of an arrow and expect it not to pass thru an arro with no point can bary a good six inches in a bag target just imagine passing through soft tissue!!!!!!
That wasan assumption you made and we are all getting tired of hearing assumptions.
Lets hear facts.
07-12-2006, 09:32 PM
#27
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: WHA Question
ORIGINAL: bowsmacker
You are making assumptions without knowing the arrowsystem the WHA will be using. They may not be shooting the same arrow speed as you. They may be using a blunt on the end of the dart.Both of thesewould determine the kinetic energy at impact. Deer are tough critters and take worse beatings in the wild all the time.
That wasan assumption you made and we are all getting tired of hearing assumptions.
Lets hear facts.
You are making assumptions without knowing the arrowsystem the WHA will be using. They may not be shooting the same arrow speed as you. They may be using a blunt on the end of the dart.Both of thesewould determine the kinetic energy at impact. Deer are tough critters and take worse beatings in the wild all the time.
That wasan assumption you made and we are all getting tired of hearing assumptions.
Lets hear facts.
AND, if you make one more name call be it me as a moron or any other member on this site, your debates will no longer be welcome. If you can't make your point without it, don't bother.
07-12-2006, 09:36 PM
#28
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: La Porte CityWaterloo Iowa
Posts: 1,589
RE: WHA Question
You are going to "laugh your butt off" because they are going to make real hunters look bad?
That pretty much sums it up for me.
What WHA is proposing is not hunting.
It will not bring new people into hunting
It will harm the image of hunting
You are very misguided
I'd be willing to bet that most of those people that get their news from the Daily Show have cable, or they wouldn't get the comedy channel. So if they have cable they already have plenty of hunting shows to watch if they want to. Hunting shows that show hunting,real hunting. I know, I know, some of the shows are on high fence ranches but it is still more real than what the WHA proposes to do.
Killing is part of hunting. It always has been and always will be. Anything else is not hunting.
I eat the animals I hunt and kill
I enjoy eating them as much as I enjoy hunting them.
I don't think the WHA will ever be on TV, let alone Primetime TV.
I strongly oppose WHA
I am a hunter and I kill what I hunt. I am proud of that. It says I care enough about the animals I hunt to be proficient with my weapons of choice and am skilled enough to match wits with animals who main goal is survival.
My hunting lic fees go towards conservation and wildlife restoration projects. I like that.
To call people that dart animals for money in a fenced in area "hunters" is an insult to me and all hunters,present and future.
I agree, that we need to continue to recruit new hunters into the hunting lifestyle. The WHA is not the way to do it in my opinion.
Example, Fear Factor is a huge, primetime hit(for what reason I am not sure?) how many young people do you see or hear about diving into a tub of worms and spiders and eating them when there is no money to be won?
The Survivor shows draw huge numbers of viewers, how many people have stranded themselves on a dessert island for a month or so just because they saw it on TV?
That pretty much sums it up for me.
What WHA is proposing is not hunting.
It will not bring new people into hunting
It will harm the image of hunting
You are very misguided
I'd be willing to bet that most of those people that get their news from the Daily Show have cable, or they wouldn't get the comedy channel. So if they have cable they already have plenty of hunting shows to watch if they want to. Hunting shows that show hunting,real hunting. I know, I know, some of the shows are on high fence ranches but it is still more real than what the WHA proposes to do.
Killing is part of hunting. It always has been and always will be. Anything else is not hunting.
I eat the animals I hunt and kill
I enjoy eating them as much as I enjoy hunting them.
I don't think the WHA will ever be on TV, let alone Primetime TV.
I strongly oppose WHA
I am a hunter and I kill what I hunt. I am proud of that. It says I care enough about the animals I hunt to be proficient with my weapons of choice and am skilled enough to match wits with animals who main goal is survival.
My hunting lic fees go towards conservation and wildlife restoration projects. I like that.
To call people that dart animals for money in a fenced in area "hunters" is an insult to me and all hunters,present and future.
I agree, that we need to continue to recruit new hunters into the hunting lifestyle. The WHA is not the way to do it in my opinion.
Example, Fear Factor is a huge, primetime hit(for what reason I am not sure?) how many young people do you see or hear about diving into a tub of worms and spiders and eating them when there is no money to be won?
The Survivor shows draw huge numbers of viewers, how many people have stranded themselves on a dessert island for a month or so just because they saw it on TV?
07-12-2006, 10:13 PM
#30
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 22
RE: WHA Question
ORIGINAL: Buck Magnet
Here is acouple questions for you....
(1)are you actually a hunter?
(2)Have you ever killed a deer?
(3)How long have you been hunting?
If you actually were a hunter who has killed a deer then you would be just as pissed off as everybody else that some dumbo is trying to start a organization that indirectly portraysyou in a negative light because you killed a deer and they darted on. Personally, I feel that comments such as your are detrimental to hunting and that is a direct violation of this message boards rules.
I suppose you have never watch the Daily Show. In case you dont, be informed that this is a station on Comedy Central. This is a show that more people between the ages of 14 and 30 go to get their news than CNN. John Stewert is going to make "hunters" look bad, especially the ones opposing it when he asks them so "killing is ethical, but darting them isnt???" "Hunting with darts is not hunting, but hunting with guns and dogs is?"....Those poor guys that really think they are gonna come out shining are gonna look like morons when they air the show. Personally, I will be embarrassed for ALL hunters but Im gonna laugh my butt off because I saw it coming from a long way away.
(1)are you actually a hunter?
(2)Have you ever killed a deer?
(3)How long have you been hunting?
If you actually were a hunter who has killed a deer then you would be just as pissed off as everybody else that some dumbo is trying to start a organization that indirectly portraysyou in a negative light because you killed a deer and they darted on. Personally, I feel that comments such as your are detrimental to hunting and that is a direct violation of this message boards rules.
1. Yes, a damb good one too
2. Yes, lots but not a one over 140". And a 6 bull elk, 8 cow elk, 1 bear, and a few antelope. Geez, im probably a bad person for keeping count too...oops. These were just with a bow. Ive guided alot more than that too.
3. approx 17 years
Windwalker started this thread. Do you doubt him as a hunter too? He seemed to be a pretty good guy and he wasnt as pissed off as "everybody else"
Detrimental to hunting??? Shame on me for sharing facts, opinions, and passion....just like good ole Windwalker.
So I guess thats the end of us here on Huntingnet Windwalker...WE should have known we were going to violate the rules of this prestigious forum someday. You go first, and I will let the door hit me in the butt on the way out.