40 yard broadside shot
 

i think we all bowhunters have had a buck or doe around 40-45 yards. atthis distance theres alot that can go wrong and leed to an injured deer. jumped string/windage/elevation.40 yards is a long way for an ethical clean heat/lung shot. i was wondering if any of you guys or galstake this far shot?
for me personally i would only take this shot if the deer had no idea i was there and orno wind. if there was a little blow in the wind or the deer sensed something i would just have to watch and enjoy the deer at that distance. i practice at my 3d range at 20,30,40,50,60 yards. 20 and 30 are always grouping and just were i want the arrow to go. any more yards after that the arrow is all over the place. i beleive in take only close ethical shots. all the deer i ever had shot died within a minute of the shot, but i had a buddy who shot a doe at 90 yards and stuck her in the gut area, and it took hours to find that deer. this deer ran at least 600 yards from where the shot took place all that suffering and trouble just beacuse it was an unethical shot and the broadhead didnt peirce the heart lung region.
whats your thoughts on this?
-Bran

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

hmmm??, i kind of look at that senario as if i was out practicing on a target at that range whereby i had all time in the world to make a good placement shot, if all the conditions where in my favor and i felt confident my arrow was going to hit where it needed to i would then take that kind of shot.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Few years ago I shot a nice size doe at 38 yards. She was slightly quareting away from me. The arrow hit perfect except it just a little bit far back. It should have hit the liver and and got the back of the lungs.She jumped and twisted when the arrowhit her.I was shooting a 2 blade broadhead that didn't come to a point. I belive it was made by Bearand had a small flat spot about 1/8" wide at the tip that was also sharpened. The arrow went in the very back of the rib cage and came out through her guts and also cut the back of one of her ankles. Dad and I did not find her that night and then it rained late that night and all the next morning. Grandpa and I went on a random search in the woods and got lucky. Found her in a pond at the back of the woods. Meat was still good and she was tastey.I refuse to take a long shot since. 2 lessons. First use cut on impact broadheads that come to a point. 2nd Get themclose or let them walk. To many things can go wrong. I had a 160" 10 point jump the string and duct my arrow at 25 yards. If he can duct it at 25, imagine what he could do at a longer distance. Bow hunting is about getting close, not shooting long shots. If you want to take long shots then take up rifle hunting.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

If that deer doesn't know your there and is browsing or just pawing around or something I'll take that shot any day. If there on alert no way. It would take less than 3/4ths of a sec for my arrow to hit at 40 yds. Just my opinion and the way I hunt.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

A 40 yard shot is only acceptable to those who have an effective yardage of 40 yards. There are those that can make it without hesitation. I've taken two deer beyond 40 yards without incident. One was a 42 yard double lung and the other was a 41 yard double lung. I've never missed an animal beyond 40 yards seeing they were the only two attempts beyond 40 however I have missed animals well under 30 yards. The noise factor is a variable regardless of 20 yards or 40 yards, the animal will react one way or another or not at all depending and regardless. Wind factor only come into play on just that..windy days and elevation is less a fact at 40 yards than it is at 20 or under because of shot angle.

The only people that should take a 40 yard shot are those who has 40 yards in thier effective range and when the shot presentation is correct. There are those who should never attempt a shot beyond 30 yards and some less because of their own personal effective range.

The most important factor is to abide by your effective range and never push the envelope, for some that's 20 yards, for others it may be 40....you and only you can make that decision.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

I too practice out to 60 or 70 (just for the heck of it). I have never shot a deer over 32 yards, luckily, however I havea great group out to 45 that I feel confident to make a double lung, under good conditions. Wind would play a major factor in taking a shot that long at a deer. Now, I did post a pic of a groundhog I took at 62 yards right in the shoulder and last night I took another at 61, a little back and he took my arrow. Anyhow, with practice, a properly tuned bow, a 40 yard shot can be a comfortable range, but luckily, we don't have to take it due to our homework and luck on deer movement.

Kelly

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

You said you practice out to 60 but only get groups at 20 and 30 after 30 it opens up. Then id say your effective range is 30 or less for an ethical shot at recovering the deer. Not to say it cant be done but if the groups stop at 30 so would i.........thank's......

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Effective shot range varies from person to person. What one person thinks is too far, another guy will kill deer at repeatedly. Rob summed things up pretty well.

chiefks,
What does that little flat part on the broadhead have to do with your story? You still got full penetration, I don't see your point.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

I can make that shot all day; provided the deer is relaxed and doesn't know I am there; sure, I have before. Last year on the last day of season I double lunged a doe at 50 yds asI was heading for my truck. She never knew what happened. Shoot within your capabilities is the answer. If you can't hit a target at that range then you have no business doing it on a wild animal.HCH

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Think about what has to happen for a arrow to go into the back of a does rib cage on a slightly quartering away shot and go through her guts and come out her bellyand cut her back ankle. The only reasoning I can figure for the arrow to take that path is that the deer must have reacted when the arrow hit her. She must have jumped and twisted. I belive that has everything to do with that style of broad head I was useing at the time. A good sharp broadhead that comes to a point and cuts on impact should blow right through a doe at 38 yards as long as you don't hit any major bones.My arrow did not blow right though that doe, and given the shot placement it should have. My broadheads were sharp. However they did not come to a point. I think that slowed my arrow down and it took more effort for that broadhead to get into that deer. Which caused her reaction and my arrows reaction. So in other words. I did NOT get full penetration. If I would have then the arrow would have taken out the liver and possibly the back of the lungs and came out the other side and not came out her belly. I was maybe 12 feet off the ground, so down shot angle was not a factor. I was shooting 60-65 lbs draw weight at the time which is plenty and my arrows were 2117 xx75 shafts.Useing a good sharpbroadhead that has a good sharp point is essential.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

I've taken a few deer at40yds and 2 at 50yds, back in the day when all I did was shoot bow. One thing I've noticed, is that deer don't seem to jump the string on those long shots like the do at close range.

Its like this. if you are walking in the woods and someone says " Boo!" at 5yds, you are going to jump in reaction to that noise being so close.

If they say "Boo!" when they are 35yds from you, you won't jump, because the noise is farther away.

Its hard to explain but I hope you get my point.

I think deer will react to a noise that is really close more than a noise that is far away.


I sure that some of us have taken really far shots at deer and missed the shot. Usually the deer just stands there with no reaction after the long range miss.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Windwalker7, that is exactly what I have found as well under most circumstances. I missed a beautiful buck one day when I compensated for his drop because he was a bundle of nerves...he was 40 yards and I put my pin just under his chest and guess what, he never moved and I watched the arrow just miss him behind his leg and under his chest...perfect shot but I wasn't aiming at the deer....I'll never compensate again.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

At least you missed him clean I guess.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

I too can hit the vitals on my 3d target at 35 or 40 yards most of the time - IF I have a rangefinder or know the EXACT distance.

At those ranges, you have to know the exact distance to within a yard or two. The arrow drops too fast beyond 30 yards. If you misjudge distance by 5 yards on a 40 yard shot your going to miss.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

ive killed deer with 2 blade b52's and expandables all were pass throughs. i only take broadside shots though.
i always say this in a prayer before i hunt that day
" Lord i rather have a clean miss than an unclean kill " if you think about it its so true, and everytime i pray before i hunt i either get a missed shot or a clean kill.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Like many others have said it is all a matter of effective range.In addition to that I would add that effective range on a non moving target when nothing is at stake is different than effective range on an animal when you are cold,tired or hyped up with excitement or have been holding for two minutes.In addition to that some days most of us are calmer and stronger than other days.I have had some situations where I have been dead calm and others where a deer has had me pinned and I have been afraid to breathe much less move and when the opportunity presented itself(if it did)I had all that tension coming to the surface.
I would say "to thy own self be true" if you know without a doubt you can kill it cleanly than have at it.If youhave any doubtdon't let the arrow go.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

That was my point BobCo...I placed the arrow exactly where I was aiming and he didn't drop, had I placed my pin on his heart, guess what, perfect heart shot. I was refering to the animal not hearing the bow at 40 yards and are you judging me for taking a 40 yard shot....some can shoot, some can't.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Nah, I wasn't judging you. It was just an observation. And I agree with the second part of your statement (for the most part).

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

chiefks,

oh, I think I see now. I had a completely different picture in my head the 1st time around. I've seen arrows hit deer and take weird defelctions going thru them regardless of style of head, but I do think it makes sense if using a COC, to have it be a point.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

you've never killed a deer, have you MO_Hoyt?????

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

To each his own. You do your thing, I'll do mine. I find that deer beyond 30 yards are far less likely to react or drop or jump at the sound of a bow going off. It's not close enough to startle them. Instead of dropping, they may look up but usually don't do that. They're far less likely at 40 than they are at 30.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

When it all comes down to it, isn't it not what we all practice for??, like at all these 3D event at those kind of(40 yarder) events so that we can all be pros at putting meat on the table, or all we all just going to pass up those kind of shots till another season? i_don't_think_so

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Just a comment on that. When shooting at whitetail at 40 yards, thereare more things involved then an archers skills, abilities, and confidence. Of course this is true at 15 yards, but it is magnified at these longer yardages. I'm not saying take or don't take the shot at a live animal, but be aware of the variables. Heck, even some of my archery hero's took shots at distances that I can not even comprehend. Example is Howard Hill's Elk shot at 185 paces.

Personally, for me when the "hope factor" enters the equation, I usually will not shoot. For example, I hope I can seethe uninterupted flight path of my arrow (no small limbs, leaves, grass, in the way), I hope the deer does not decide to move an inch before my arrows gets there (and I don't just mean jumping the string). etc. etc.

On the second part ofyour post, I really can't comment. To tell you the truth, I don't hunt to put meat on the table. Although I do enjoy it, and donate what I do not use.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Bob, your absolutley right, a 40 yard shot should never be attempted when there is the presence of doubt. Archery is more mental than physical and when doubt is present, doubt takes over. The same variables exist at 40 yards as they do at 20 yards. The animal is the same size, the animal can move just as far in that millisecond it takes an arrow to travel at 20 yards as it can at 40 yards. The biggest factor in taking/not taking a shot at that distance is confidence in your ability, execution of your shot and simply put mechanics. Not everyone should attempt it and most shouldn't ever shoot over 30 yards. I've passed animals at 35 yards because the shot is not right or I had doubt. I've passed them at 20 yards as well. I've taken two shots over the 40 yard mark both being double lungs and I've passed animals over 40 yards as well. The two I took were not record book animals. I've missed under 30 yards, and one at 40 yards because I held low. I've had misfortunes at 20 yards, not one over 40 yards.

It comes down to the hunter and the hunter alone at that very moment the opportunity exists. All we can hope for out of one another is that you use your best judgement, don't shoot beyond your abilities and pass it if doubt exists. We live with ourselves alone and each of us knows that ache in the pit of the stomach and I believe we all strive to never feel it again. Do what is right for you and you alone, I will do the same.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Taking a 40 yard shot on a deer has nothing to do with ethics. It has to do with archer skill as everyone has already stated. Right now I will not hesistate to shoot a deer at 40 yards, I can place 3 arrows inside a golfball sized group at that distance. I am now working my way to 60 yards so I am prepared for my upcoming antelope hunt out west. If you don't feel proficient at longer ranges, don't take the shot.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

If the deer is relaxed at 40yards and it gives me a broad side shot i'll take it

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Not trying to be a wise guy or anything, but a deer can move twice as far at 40 yards then it canat 20 yards before the arrow gets there. Even further if you take the deceleration of the arrow before it gets there.

Here is my reason/experience for doubting a shot with a compound at a whitetail even past around 25 yards. I was shooting 300fps setup at the time with carbons and I was shooting at a buck at about 35 yards. A shot that I took sucessfully more then once in the past and a shot I felt 100% confident in. The buck was grazing at 35 yards broadside alone and had no clue I was there. I drew back on the buck, and everything was right. I released my arrow. However at the point of no return on the releaseand the time the arrow got to the buch, he took a quartering away step.By the time the arrow got to him (believe me, it sure seemd like a long time), it didn't hit where I wanted it to. The arrow went exactly where I shot it though and itflew unobstructed. Nothing about the shot I felt was my fault. But the arrow still didn't go where it would have if the deer would not have taken that step/turn. To make a long story short, I caught the liver and one lung instead of the double lung and I had to let the deer expire overnight. I collected him in the morning. But it left me with a real bad feeling.

Below is a link to a little info on the amount of time it takes an arrow to reach a deer and how much a deer can move before it gets there. For those who may be interested (scroll down to my post):

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=240480&mpage=2&key=mph%2cdeer%2c move&#240618

Extremely well put IMO.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

For me it depends on the situation. I practice and can make that shot. My two longest shots have been a doe at 42 yards and a six point at 45 yards. One was in open woods, the other was in a field. I shoot tight groups in the yard at 40, I feel confident doing it in the woods.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Good post Bob.

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

No. Too far for me. I try to keep under 25 yards 30 is my limit. Thats what I go by and I stick to it. If you know you can make that shot go for it. You should know your limit and stick to it. You owe that to the animal and yourself

RE: 40 yard broadside shot
 

Great post. BobCo.