Animal Vision
06-03-2006, 10:02 AM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 1,906
Animal Vision
Seems with all of the "camoflauge" threads, it only seems reasonable to post some facts pertaining to vision...
1993 study determining deer vision:
http://home.adelphia.net/~geffert/deervis.htm
Some facts from the study:
Researchers have actually identified 4 types of oil, and hence birds may actually possess quadrachromatic vision. Hence, if you're really worried about blending into your surroundings, worry about it when waterfowling or turkey hunting.
Conclusions:
We all know that animals detect motion the best, but also realize that when close enough they will detect the glistening from our eyes, and when cold can see the vapor trails of our breath. All the camo in the world will not better your chances against an battle-tested trophy buck, or a 4 year old gobbler. In reality, we have no idea how much color most mammals actually detect, and therefore have trouble determining what the best "camoflauge pattern" may be to ensure concealment.
When it comes to birds, it probably boils down to the actual distance of vision, rather than the actual amount of vision. For instance, waterfowl and birds of prey have much better long-distance vision than do most terrestrial avian species, such as turkeys and quail, simply because they must visualize their surroundings from farther distances.
In summary, camo may actually assist a hunter in blending into their environment, but knowing the game of interest and specifically that particular animal's "attitude" doing the critical moment, are much more important factors in successfully harvesting game...
1993 study determining deer vision:
http://home.adelphia.net/~geffert/deervis.htm
Some facts from the study:
The recent experiments suggest important differences between the daylight vision of deer compared to that of humans:
1) Humans have three classes of cone photoreceptors which are the basis of trichromatic (literally three-color) vision. In humans this three-receptor system confers excellent color vision. Humans can distinguish small differences in wavelength across the spectrum. In contrast, only two classes of cone photoreceptors were detected in deer. Deer can have no better than dichromatic (two-color) vision. Thus, the color vision capacities of deer are, at best, limited compared to humans. The two classes of cones in deer allow for the ability to see color differences between short and long-wave lights, e.g., blue and yellow, however, they lack the photoreceptor basis for seeing differences in the color of objects that reflect middle-to-long wavelength light, e.g., yellow-green, green, yellow, orange, and red.
2) Since humans have yellow pigments that screen out short-wavelength light, the relative sensitivity of deer to short wavelength light is much higher that the sensitivity of humans. This same difference would apply to low light conditions under which only rod photoreceptors operate.
3) The three classes of cone photoreceptors in humans are each sensitive to a different region of the visible spectrum. Together these confer sensitivity to a wide band of wavelengths. The three classes of human cone photoreceptors can be termed red, green and blue cones. One of the two cone photoreceptors detected in deer is similar to the human blue cones; the other is similar to human green cones. Thus, compared to humans, deer effectively lack red cone photoreceptors. This suggests that deer should be relatively less sensitive to long-wavelength light (orange and especially red) than humans.
Realize that only primates (and some higher aquatic mammals, maybe) see in trichromatic vision. ALL other mammals are thought to visualize in dichromatic vision. Presently there is NO system available to simulate dichromatic vision, and hence, therefore only theories as to what exactly most mammals perceive...
2005 report on bird vision:
Here is where it really gets interesting, a recent article from PubMed archives:
Link 2: J Comp Physiol A Neuroethol Sens Neural Behav Physiol. 2005 Apr;191(4):381-92. Epub 2005 Feb 15.
Modelling oil droplet absorption spectra and spectral sensitivities of bird cone photoreceptors.
Hart NS, Vorobyev M.
Vision, Touch and Hearing Research Centre, School of Biomedical Sciences, University of Queensland, Brisbane, QLD 4072, Australia. [email protected]
Birds have four spectrally distinct types of single cones that they use for colour vision. It is often desirable to be able to model the spectral sensitivities of the different cone types, which vary considerably between species. However, although there are several mathematical models available for describing the spectral absorption of visual pigments, there is no model describing the spectral absorption of the coloured oil droplets found in three of the four single cone types. In this paper, we describe such a model and illustrate its use in estimating the spectral sensitivities of single cones. Furthermore, we show that the spectral locations of the wavelengths of maximum absorbance (lambda(max)) of the short- (SWS), medium- (MWS) and long- (LWS) wavelength-sensitive visual pigments and the cut-off wavelengths (lambda(cut)) of their respective C-, Y- and R-type oil droplets can be predicted from the lambda(max) of the ultraviolet- (UVS)/violet- (VS) sensitive visual pigment.
Hart NS, Vorobyev M.
Vision, Touch and Hearing Research Centre, School of Biomedical Sciences, University of Queensland, Brisbane, QLD 4072, Australia. [email protected]
Birds have four spectrally distinct types of single cones that they use for colour vision. It is often desirable to be able to model the spectral sensitivities of the different cone types, which vary considerably between species. However, although there are several mathematical models available for describing the spectral absorption of visual pigments, there is no model describing the spectral absorption of the coloured oil droplets found in three of the four single cone types. In this paper, we describe such a model and illustrate its use in estimating the spectral sensitivities of single cones. Furthermore, we show that the spectral locations of the wavelengths of maximum absorbance (lambda(max)) of the short- (SWS), medium- (MWS) and long- (LWS) wavelength-sensitive visual pigments and the cut-off wavelengths (lambda(cut)) of their respective C-, Y- and R-type oil droplets can be predicted from the lambda(max) of the ultraviolet- (UVS)/violet- (VS) sensitive visual pigment.
Conclusions:
We all know that animals detect motion the best, but also realize that when close enough they will detect the glistening from our eyes, and when cold can see the vapor trails of our breath. All the camo in the world will not better your chances against an battle-tested trophy buck, or a 4 year old gobbler. In reality, we have no idea how much color most mammals actually detect, and therefore have trouble determining what the best "camoflauge pattern" may be to ensure concealment.
When it comes to birds, it probably boils down to the actual distance of vision, rather than the actual amount of vision. For instance, waterfowl and birds of prey have much better long-distance vision than do most terrestrial avian species, such as turkeys and quail, simply because they must visualize their surroundings from farther distances.
In summary, camo may actually assist a hunter in blending into their environment, but knowing the game of interest and specifically that particular animal's "attitude" doing the critical moment, are much more important factors in successfully harvesting game...
06-03-2006, 10:36 AM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Animal Vision
That's a great study however it really tells us nothing about camo. I can only attest from my own experiences and that is I get away with more movement wearing open patterns like ASAT and Predator than I have wearing blobbing patterns like RT and MO.
Blending in to surrounds, not comprehending that one for turkeys as well. I've had closer birds, turkeys and crows while wearing ASAT and it certainly doesn't blend into my green turkey woods but works to superiority. For instance,
I see in the Enigma thread you as well support open patterns which I concur. When I shot my spring gobbler this year I had a hen walk by me at 3 yards in this exact position. I even closed my right eye as she passed so she couldn't see me looking at her. She walked by unsuspecting and even allowed me to slowly turn right to get the bead/crosshairs on the longbeard....she clucked then purred.....booom..!
And of course the bird I called into my stepfather as he was wearing Predator Fall Brown in a green woods....didn't blend in but the gobbler never saw him when he pulled the trigger at 15 yards.
Blending in to surrounds, not comprehending that one for turkeys as well. I've had closer birds, turkeys and crows while wearing ASAT and it certainly doesn't blend into my green turkey woods but works to superiority. For instance,
I see in the Enigma thread you as well support open patterns which I concur. When I shot my spring gobbler this year I had a hen walk by me at 3 yards in this exact position. I even closed my right eye as she passed so she couldn't see me looking at her. She walked by unsuspecting and even allowed me to slowly turn right to get the bead/crosshairs on the longbeard....she clucked then purred.....booom..!
And of course the bird I called into my stepfather as he was wearing Predator Fall Brown in a green woods....didn't blend in but the gobbler never saw him when he pulled the trigger at 15 yards.
06-03-2006, 11:29 AM
#3
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 13,082
RE: Animal Vision
Great posts...both of them. I believe it's not so much about blending in as it is confusing the eyes of the game. You look around in the woods and there just aren't many black holes floating around out there. This is why guys hunting in ground blinds have the windows netted. That black blob is very un-natural. Do they know there's a dude in there w/ a 7mm mag about to permanently place him in vapor lock? Nope. And they don't care. It's not natural, something is wrong and it doesn't matter what it is.
I believe the same holds true w/ these "blobbing" patterns as they are becoming affectionatly known. Deer or turkey, whatever, walking around in the woods, minding their own business, when they see out of the corner of their eye this big, black blob looking porthole that they don't want to get lost in. I don't believe they know it's a human, they just know it's not right, so they leave. That's how they stay alive.
If you were able to watch a deer 24/7 without being in the woods, you would see how spooky they are. Any little thing that is out of place, they just don't stick around to see what it is. With the open patterns, you get no blob and contrasting color. It doesn't matter if they see red, white, blue, green, purple, orange or pink, or just black and white. It's contrasting, not a blob, and it confuses the eyes. Yeah, the color may be off, but the contrasting colors and shapes look like everything else in the woods and they just don't know the difference. JMO, no science behind it.
I believe the same holds true w/ these "blobbing" patterns as they are becoming affectionatly known. Deer or turkey, whatever, walking around in the woods, minding their own business, when they see out of the corner of their eye this big, black blob looking porthole that they don't want to get lost in. I don't believe they know it's a human, they just know it's not right, so they leave. That's how they stay alive.
If you were able to watch a deer 24/7 without being in the woods, you would see how spooky they are. Any little thing that is out of place, they just don't stick around to see what it is. With the open patterns, you get no blob and contrasting color. It doesn't matter if they see red, white, blue, green, purple, orange or pink, or just black and white. It's contrasting, not a blob, and it confuses the eyes. Yeah, the color may be off, but the contrasting colors and shapes look like everything else in the woods and they just don't know the difference. JMO, no science behind it.
06-03-2006, 12:09 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 1,906
RE: Animal Vision
Rob,
Yeah, I just wanted to post these links/articles, simply because it seems quite a few on the Enigma thread really do not understand mammalian or avian vision, and most just superficially. As for your comments, realize that ASAT is also constructed to be devoid of UV brighteners, and is recommended to be washed in UV killer. Although most guys don't think about it, UV rays are probably more critical when turkey hunting than during deer season, simply because large objects emitting UV light are almost never found on the forest floor. You may get large areas of UV light from the atmosphere, so 15-20 feet up a tree the UV from camo can be "accepted" by an animal...
As I stated on that thread, it's not just the openness of a camo pattern, but moreso the addition of more shades coupled with the lack of definitive colors. I would be leary about wearing something that is primarily green, such as the new Enigma, simply because whereas ASAT is a primary cone oil droplet (yellow) color, we actually have no idea how other mammals see green. There is some debate, as to whether it's viewed as yellow or whether it's viewed as grey. However, just the open-ness of the pattern will make it "better" than most.
Browns are an altogether different topic, simply because of the complexity of the color itself.
If anyone is raising an eyebrow over that brown statement, go to your nearest hardware store and have them mix you up some brown. You'll be very surprised at what primary colors are added to equal "brown"...
Yeah, I just wanted to post these links/articles, simply because it seems quite a few on the Enigma thread really do not understand mammalian or avian vision, and most just superficially. As for your comments, realize that ASAT is also constructed to be devoid of UV brighteners, and is recommended to be washed in UV killer. Although most guys don't think about it, UV rays are probably more critical when turkey hunting than during deer season, simply because large objects emitting UV light are almost never found on the forest floor. You may get large areas of UV light from the atmosphere, so 15-20 feet up a tree the UV from camo can be "accepted" by an animal...
As I stated on that thread, it's not just the openness of a camo pattern, but moreso the addition of more shades coupled with the lack of definitive colors. I would be leary about wearing something that is primarily green, such as the new Enigma, simply because whereas ASAT is a primary cone oil droplet (yellow) color, we actually have no idea how other mammals see green. There is some debate, as to whether it's viewed as yellow or whether it's viewed as grey. However, just the open-ness of the pattern will make it "better" than most.
Browns are an altogether different topic, simply because of the complexity of the color itself.
If anyone is raising an eyebrow over that brown statement, go to your nearest hardware store and have them mix you up some brown. You'll be very surprised at what primary colors are added to equal "brown"...
06-03-2006, 04:22 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,876
RE: Animal Vision
Good info! Seems kind of funny that someone can't hook something up and see through a deers eyes.
Even if they could I don't think I would'nt want to know. So much stuff anymore that takes the hunt out of the game.
Even if they could I don't think I would'nt want to know. So much stuff anymore that takes the hunt out of the game.
06-03-2006, 05:27 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Animal Vision
ORIGINAL: nodog
Good info! Seems kind of funny that someone can't hook something up and see through a deers eyes.
Even if they could I don't think I would'nt want to know. So much stuff anymore that takes the hunt out of the game.
Good info! Seems kind of funny that someone can't hook something up and see through a deers eyes.
Even if they could I don't think I would'nt want to know. So much stuff anymore that takes the hunt out of the game.
06-03-2006, 09:19 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,876
RE: Animal Vision
LOL could be someone hasn't ponied up the doe.
I think they see what they are looking for, in other words their brain can be fooled, until it realizes it is seeing something other than what they want to see. Been my experience anyways. That shocked look on their faces when they pick me out or when they look right at me and never pick me out. They were looking for something else. Mental images pop up in their brains and they start to look for that image, as soon as they see it, they react. Their other senses trigger it. Grunting to stop a deer causes them to look for another deer, not man, unless man has given them a reason too. Cause them to look for something else or use what you know their looking for and your almost invisible.
I did have a chance to see maybe what a deer see's. Was video taping my brother in blazer orange and I couldn't pick him out as I taped it. Everything was black and white, his orange just looked like light coming through the trees. It was an eye opener. Shortly there after he put the grip on a dandy, or should I say Randy buck. I know what he was seeing as the girls were right under me.I know what they were seeing too and wanted nothing of it, just yet.
We have enough field knowledge I would think to put together what an animal see's. Someone that puts that info together could have a good book on their hands.
I think they see what they are looking for, in other words their brain can be fooled, until it realizes it is seeing something other than what they want to see. Been my experience anyways. That shocked look on their faces when they pick me out or when they look right at me and never pick me out. They were looking for something else. Mental images pop up in their brains and they start to look for that image, as soon as they see it, they react. Their other senses trigger it. Grunting to stop a deer causes them to look for another deer, not man, unless man has given them a reason too. Cause them to look for something else or use what you know their looking for and your almost invisible.
I did have a chance to see maybe what a deer see's. Was video taping my brother in blazer orange and I couldn't pick him out as I taped it. Everything was black and white, his orange just looked like light coming through the trees. It was an eye opener. Shortly there after he put the grip on a dandy, or should I say Randy buck. I know what he was seeing as the girls were right under me.
I know what they were seeing too and wanted nothing of it, just yet.We have enough field knowledge I would think to put together what an animal see's. Someone that puts that info together could have a good book on their hands.
06-04-2006, 11:17 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 233
RE: Animal Vision
If deer lack the ability to "see" red wavelengths, then I suspect their vision would be similar to what a scuba will see. The long wavelength light is filtered very close to the top so that below 5-10 meters everything is different shades of grey.
Just a personal note, I had two deer on two occasions walk to within 4-5 feet of me while I was standing on the ground wearing blue jeans, sweat shirt and blaze orange hat last year. Once was on the edge of a swamp and the other was on the edge of acotton field, both times I was in a wide open space. I think they smelled me before they ever saw me.
I wear camo for bowhunting because I have light weight gear that I use for turkey hunting and I will take whatever advantage I can get, although I am not convinced it makes any difference.
As for rifle season, I just wear work clothes. I could tap dance in my stand before a deer 100 yards away would see me.
J
Just a personal note, I had two deer on two occasions walk to within 4-5 feet of me while I was standing on the ground wearing blue jeans, sweat shirt and blaze orange hat last year. Once was on the edge of a swamp and the other was on the edge of acotton field, both times I was in a wide open space. I think they smelled me before they ever saw me.
I wear camo for bowhunting because I have light weight gear that I use for turkey hunting and I will take whatever advantage I can get, although I am not convinced it makes any difference.
As for rifle season, I just wear work clothes. I could tap dance in my stand before a deer 100 yards away would see me.
J
