Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Several years ago, I concluded that many aspects of maintaining my bowhunting gear had, at least for me, become too maintenance intense, too complex, too time consuming, and more expensive, than it need be.

To identify all that had changed for the good and for the worse, and what I personally believed was not necessary and was not practical, I looked back to my early years of bowhunting. In the early years, deciding what bow to shoot and knowing what was a practical and necessary accessory was not bewildering as it is today. Installing and adjusting shooting accessories was not complex and perplexing. Equipment malfunction and breakage was not a frequent problem. Basic but efficient archery equipment, target or hunting, was not unreasonably expensive as it is today, regardless that the average annual wages were much lower in the early years.

The universally standard hunting equipment was a 40-50 lb recurve, a simple fiber or spring arrow rest, a set of cedar or glass shafts armed with a fairly common broadhead, a quiver, a tab or shooting glove, a set of military “Woodland” pattern camo clothing, a cork to burn, a knife, a length of rope, and a roll of toilet tissue. Early progressive additions to bowhunting equipment, were a bow-sight, a stabilizer, string silencers and kisser button. Eventually, we stepped from the brush, crawled off the tree limbs, and begun to hunt from homemade treestands, hung at a great and average height of 10 feet.

Most shooters shot year-around at local clubs, fun shoots, bow fishing, field competitions, etc. Therefore, come opening day of the deer season, most already knew far in advance how their gear was performing and how they were shooting. Once your shooting gear was compatible, adjusted, and secured, you rarely had to consider that it was a piece of equipment or a maladjustment that was causing bad arrow flight and bad groups. You knew the problem was, in all likelihood, caused by you. Therefore, finding the source of the problem was somewhat easier and more absolute because you did not have to consider and check and recheck the enormous amount of mechanical components that you must also check today.

Because available bowhunting gear was minimal and fairly standard, when bowhunters came together very little discussion occurred regarding one’s choice of equipment over another’s. Most often, the conversations were about how well or bad you were shooting, hints, tricks, and tutoring to spot a form problem, to shoot better or consistently well, and an enormous exchange of deer hunting information, along with the typical tales that are commonly spun by most hunters.

The average bowhunter was not a buck hunter, we simply hunted deer. Harvesting a doe was not a subordinated accomplishment as it seemingly is today. Harvesting a buck was just a plus and nothing more. Of course, the person who was lucky enough to kill a buck was jubilant, as were his or her fellow hunters for the person who shot a buck. However, the person killing a buck would not have flaunted him/herself as a superior bowhunter, even if he/she conceitedly, but secretly, considered his/herself to be superior. That would not have been a personal belief to divulge and/or to act upon back then.

In proportion with the (then) deer populations, and the rudimentary but growing knowledge that bowhunters of deer possessed, the success rate was good. I may be bias, and maybe I am not recalling it factually, but I do not remember there being a disproportionate number of deer that were not recovered after being shot as there seems to be today. If I am remembering it correctly, it is my opinion that several reasons for the higher recovery rate were:

1)The average bowhunter usually shot year around and were good shooters. Most did not practice and shoot-in just a few weeks before opening day.

2) Most bowhunters hunted from ground level, or near ground level, which exposed more of target and more of the deer’s vital area to a hit than what is exposed to a bowhunter whom is shooting from a height of 18 to 20 feet.

3) The average hunter knew the limitations of the (then) archery equipment, and hunted and made shots in accordance with the limitations.

4) IMO, the average hunter of then, knowing the limitations of their equipment and equipment capabilities, learned and knew the habits and the anatomy of deer much better than today’s average hunter.

Because most (early day) bowhunters hunted from ground level, they commonly would try to select a position, in accordance with the wind direction, that would enable a shot to the left side of the deer’s chest cavity. Anyone know why?

Frontal shots were made, and were lethal, but only when a deer was at a certain angle to enable a shot at a certain area on the deer, and only when a particular leg of the deer was in a certain position. Anyone know what the angle was, what leg was in what position, and what area on the deer you would shoot at and why?

If you can only hit one lung, which lung would you prefer if you could have your choice, and why?

Am I saying that all things were better in the early days than today? Absolutely not. Am I saying that all the bowhunting equipment available today is worthless, impractical, and not necessary? Of course not. However, I am saying that much of today’s bowhunting equipment is worthless, impractical, not necessary; and too expensive for what you get in return.

Too many bowhunters of today are brainwashed by marketing hype and believe they must have the latest fad stuff to be, or be accepted as, a “real” bowhunter. Many are more into talking about their latest “trick” stuff they just purchased than what bowhunting is actually about; hunting deer...doe or buck. How many shooters that were previously here talking only about their “rad” and “zoomy” gear, are now here now that the season is in? This tells me that some bow shooters only play with the toys; but do not hunt, seldom hunt, or never intended to bowhunt. They are victims of hype and vogue.

I recently read some articles that said that bow and bow accessory technology has just about peaked. That some of the technology and progress, and maybe much of the technology and progress, may have been for the worse rather than for the good, and a rollback to certain designs and an elimination of certain gear is expected. I buy that. However, not just for the reasons that will be openly hyped by many of the manufacturers. The primary and underlying reasons that rollbacks and discontinuing of certain gear may occur will probably not be divulged.

Here is what I believe are the some real and primary reasons.

There are not enough target shooters and bowhunters to support the vast industry that exists today. Correspondingly, there are not enough target shooters and bowhunters to justify the manufacturing of all the accessories that the multitude of companies make. Choices are too numerous for one company -or a few companies, to reap most of the limited sales and profits. Many veteran bow shooters/hunters are hanging up their gear for a multitude of reasons. Because much of the gear has become too complex, too technical, too unreliable, and too expensive; new blood is being scared off and is causing new shooters to become frustrated and, therefore getting out of the sport early.

Add the fact that access to property to hunt has declined. Add the fact that “in vogue” impacts sales. Add the fact that much of the bow industry has tried to consolidate 3D gear with bowhunting gear. THAT was a big mistake and caused much of the gear to be impractical or difficult for bowhunting. Add the fact that the common rule that many manufacturers adhere to, “Use less material, use cheaper material, kick it out faster, and charge more,” has bit them in the butt.

Do you really believe that the shortening and lightening of bows e.g., full split limbs, shorter risers, synthetics vs. metal, etc. was primarily for the purpose of a lighter and more efficient bow? Or that accessories made mostly of synthetic and compound materials was only to reduce the weight? Do you really believe that a manufacturer that promotes impractical gear does not know the gear is not practical and will not always perform as is claimed? Many manufactures are following the “rule” I stated above, and charging 2 to 3 times more for the product.

Here is my suggestion. Identify and ignore the hype, dump the “trick gear” addiction, go with the proven basics and the practical, and spend most of your time, and your money, enjoying the hunt.





Edited by - c903 on 11/01/2002 08:51:16

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

I hear you C903. I am returning to archery, or should I say bowhunting, after a ten year layoff. Prior to that I shot nearly every day and worked full time at a bow shop in Central PA. I got all my gear at cost and was living at home, so I could afford to shoot competitions every weekend and buy arrows and all the latest gadgets.

However, now I'm no longer working in the archery business, I have a family and my own home and when I got bit by the bug to pick the bow back up again this year and get back into competetions again, I was shocked at the price hike over the last 10 years. Of course you expect inflation, but the prices of bows and basic compound equipment is outrageous now. I commented to my dad about this, who stayed in archery for 7 years longer than I did, and he said that he saw many of our peers drop out of the archery scene over those seven years because things were getting too pricey. In the end I decided to forget about going back into competitive shooting and only go out bow hunting. Part of this decision stemmed from the looks and comments I received from the local bow shop techs and patrons when I pulled my 12 year old 'ancient' equipment out of my bow case. You would have thought I was a paulper at a Rockefeller dinner.

In the end I decided that I shot pretty well with the set-up I had ten years ago and that if it was able to kill deer then (I assumed it could, I never got one until this year), then it could kill deer today. End result, I shot my first deer with a bow this year, a buck, with equipment that was all 12 years old or older. I plan on taking the same gear out with me next year and the year after and the year after until it breaks and I'm forced to buy new.

-Brad
Eastern Nebraska Bowhunter

Edited by - by23856 on 10/30/2002 13:09:11

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

c903,

That is why I bought a recurve and cedar arrows for this years bow season. I was sick of spending a fortune on 2 compounds just so if one broke I would have a backup. I am also hunting from the ground this year. I got a hog opening day but no deer yet, I have got busted a few times(moving too much). I am having a great time and none of the compound problems everything is very simple.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

I am too tired...it is too late in the day...and I need to go hunting in about 35 minutes so I just don't have the desire to respond to all of what you eloquently stated. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>:)

I will say one thing though....I really could take offense to this statement....


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>There are some shooters still trying to drum up some tech talk that you do not see engaging in hunting talk. This tells me that some bow shooters only play with the toys; but do not hunt, seldom hunt, or never intended to bowhunt. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I don't really get into the threads involving hunting strategies, the rut etc... but prefer to reply to posts about equipment...year round...in season and out. Does that make me less of a bowhunter?

Ok....just about time to hit the snowy woods....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

PABowhtr

Your comment, &quot;... and I need to go hunting in about 35 minutes.&quot; disqualifies you for membership in the &quot;Toys For Joy&quot; club.

However, my point was to point out that the hype, the &quot;rad&quot; and &quot;zoomy&quot; fads, appears to have attracted some people for the wrong reasons That they soon find out they blew mucho dough for something they fast lose/lost interest in when they realize there is a &quot;walk the walk,&quot; that follows the &quot;talk the talk.&quot; :)

Edited by - c903 on 10/30/2002 13:50:16

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Just on the weekends, and only during deer season seems like &quot;seldom&quot; hunting to me. I wish I could hunt more often but I have to make a living. It's a terrible thing.

I admittedly, put more effort into refining my archery skills than I do guaranteeing that I intercept a mature buck. I love archery and I love hunting.

I truly believe that a person that puts in their time and practice and does everything possible to not wound animals, should use whatever (legal) they find helps put those odds in their favor.

Do you have something against people who choose archery as a recreational sport and never plan to hunt animals? They too can learn alot from bowhunters and we can learn alot from them.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Been there done that...32 years ago. I think the norm was 50-55 pounds. So some say those were the good old days. That was when a lot of the states didn't have a deer season or deer herd. That was when the guy who got a deer with a bow was unique... not the norm. That was when.... wait a minute... there were no other bowhunters around really. IF you don't like to tinker... so be it. Me... a boy OR GIRL can never have to many toys. That's right... there were NO GIRLS in the game. You had the woods to yourself. You hoped for one shot a year. &quot;Just give me one chance&quot;!!! The success rate was less than 10 percent. Today, we have monster herds(pest level). I've hunted in the woods with a girl I'd never met. I've limited myself to 5 deer so far this year.(sometimes you just have to NOT shoot). THEN was nice... but so is what we have today. If we didn't have the hunter numbers we have today I'd doubt we would have been able to fend off the antis in a lot of places. We certainly wouldn't have the liberal seasons and bag limits we have. Celebrate technology.... it's gotten us where we are in this hustle bustle world. We certainly wouldn't have the archers we have without it. You like &quot;TRAD&quot;... have at it. I do to, but I like my wheels, and cables, a bubbles(not really..first thing I remove from a bow), straight arrows, sharp broadheads from a box, large selection of everything(we wouldn't have it without numbers), and I look forward to shooting number 6 come Friday or Saturday. Ahhhhhh.... &quot;The Good Ole Days&quot;..... they are upon us.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

myself I use abear recurve and i do shoot year round and i have used the ole way's for as long as i have been hunting it's the way i was taught and comfortable with. Since I have been here on the hunting net I haven't really thought any one was a get a high tec bow one day and say they are a bowhunter.I will admit there is alot of high tec stuff out there and i tease people time to time about if they are ever going to give up their training wheel's and in return i get it as when am i going to come out of the stone age.But if a guy need's or want's the high tec and will help them in the hunt then great I do agree not enough practice and if they do it's for a week before the season open's and think because they put a couple arrow's into the target that they are ready we owe it to the animal's we hunt and to the sport to be at our best and one week dont make it in my book.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

c903, that is one of the most well written and thought out posts I have ever read on this forum. My journalism professor would slap you on the back (that was his way of showing approval) for this.

In recent years I have become an admitted tech junkie of the new archery toys that are out there. It is what keeps me going after the season ends. I love shooting and tinkering and playing with my gear trying to get perfect arrow flight and maximizing my ability to take game. However, once the season starts that all stops. I rarely buy archery gear once the season starts because my hunting set up should be finalized and locked down long before then. If I do buy gear it is usually blades for broadheads or something of that nature. My bow does not come out of the case unless I am practicing or heading to my stand. I am in the woods whenever the weather and work permit and when I am not I am usually thinking about what I can do to improve my odds of taking a deer.

I think what has happened over the years is that in the past archery was hard. The gear wasn't easy to shoot because you had a choice of traditional gear with no let of or a compound with very low let-off. You HAD to practice a lot to have any hope of successfully taking a deer and a lot of people didn't want to deal with it. Not to mention you had to know the woods and the deer in it to hope to get the shot that you've worked all year for. Since then the gear has become easier to shoot and it is not unrealistic to think that you couldn't buy a bow and within a few hours have it sighted in well enough to hunt. That is not something that I recommend, but with today's gear it is possible. Because of this, the commitment that you spoke of in your post is not there. In the past you had to be committed to bowhunting because success required it. Now, that commitment is not needed thanks to the advent of all the new technology. What we see now is guys that blame lost deer on their gear, guys that shoot a deer and feel tracking a couple of hours and a couple hundred yards is sufficient, guys that think that hitting a 5 inch circle at 20 yards and screwing on some mechanicals is good enough to hunt, and guys that want to shoot that wall hanger, but don't want to put in the time hunting him.

I would say most of the guys on this board are committed to bowhunting, but this makes up a small fraction of the population of bowhunters. Hopefully things will be scaled back as you said and people will be forced to commit themselves to the sport again. I know I'm committed, and it sure sounds like you are. Anybody else?

Edited by - huntingbry on 10/30/2002 15:04:08

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Chief

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I truly believe that a person that puts in their time and practice and does everything possible to not wound animals, should use whatever (legal) they find helps put those odds in their favor.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Not exactly what I was talking about. If it helps, then the user made a good choice. I am talking about the unnecessary, the impractical, the overly complex, and gear that is too mechanical and has a built in flaw factor.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Do you have something against people who choose archery as a recreational sport and never plan to hunt animals? They too can learn alot from bowhunters and we can learn alot from them.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Never said that. I was referring to how the hype even captures the hearts and minds of those who have no intention of engaging in anything other than talking toys.


davidmil

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>You like &quot;TRAD&quot;... have at it.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Never said that. I have no intentions of going back to a recurve, but respect those that will or those that will take up the recurve for the first time. You need to read again.

Last; I was not talking about any particular shooter, target or hunter, or even the occassional plinker, when I referred to those that are not on the hunting forum at this time. Nor was I talking about the shooter that does not choose to talk about hunting, or has the time to do so. I was referring to those that have obviously stepped back, as a corroboration that there are people who purchase bows only to talk some talk, and huff n puff, simply because bows are vogue and bows/gear are very &quot;Rambo&quot; these days. I meet them off the web, I am sure they are also on the web. However, I am not dissin' them either, they are victims of the alure and the hype.

I was talking K.I.S.S. so that more time is spent enjoying the hunt... or target shooting.



Edited by - c903 on 10/30/2002 20:07:15

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

I agree with alot of your statement(s) but not all.

I started bowhunting in 1982 - While not Forever ago, long ago enough that a baker stand was &quot;state of the art&quot;. I didn't own one, and hunted with a 45 lb laminated browning recurve (I wish I still had it!!) Mostly from the ground. I hunted for 2 years before I even took a shot, and 4 years before I got my first deer (with a newfangled bear whitetail coumpond bow no less). But, even though I hunt from portable stands, and use a bow less than 10 yrs old, I still try to keep it simple - good advice for any new bowhunter (or gun hunter for that matter).

Another thing that relates to your post.... I had a Mentor.... an accomplished bowhunter of 20 yrs at the time, I still know him well today, and he still preaches - keep it simple, and fun - Words to live by as far as I'm concerned.

Good post, and good reading - Remember - Everyone, regardless of their age now, will someday recount &quot;the good old days&quot;.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

out freaking standing C903! Now if folks could only get real on the tv hunting programs and videos the bowhunting world would be that much better with an attitude like that!

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> my point was to point out that the hype, the &quot;rad&quot; and &quot;zoomy&quot; fads, appears to have attracted some people for the wrong reasons <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Oh, I definitely agree but then again we could also look at it from the other side of the coin as well. I am sure that some of the &quot;new technology&quot; has also attracted some folks who are both respectable and dedicated to bowhunting who might not have even batted an eyelash in interest if they had to use traditional equipment.

I definitely do agree that it has made some folks lazy but then on the other hand it has made many people more proficient. I just wanted to comment on that issue.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Good post! I like what you guys had to say on this.

Thanks c903 for answering my post, I can definitly see where you're coming from. Again, good post!

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>However, my point was to point out that the hype, the &quot;rad&quot; and &quot;zoomy&quot; fads, appears to have attracted some people for the wrong reasons <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Their wrong reason or your wrong reason. I think it is safe to say that you do not determine the &quot;right&quot; reason for everyone to take up archery.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Never said that. I was referring to how the hype even captures the hearts and minds of those who have no intention of engaging in anything other than talking toys.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Why do you care if others enjoy talking toys. If that is what they enjoy doing????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> There are not enough target shooters and bowhunters to support the vast industry that exists today. Correspondingly, there are not enough target shooters and bowhunters to justify the manufacturing of all the accessories that the multitude of companies make. Choices are too numerous for one company, or a few compaines, to reap most of the limited sales and profits.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Oh really. Where did you get your marketing data. I would have assumed that these companies have done marketing reasearch and have indeed found that the potential clients are there, or they would not risk such ventures. I would assume that this would be a critical part of getting loans and investors.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Many veteran bow shooters/hunters are hanging up their gear for a multitude of reasons. Because much of the gear has become too complex, too technical, too unreliable, and too expensive; new blood is being scared off and is causing new shooters to become frustrated and, therefore getting out of the sport early. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Maybe it is a natural progression. I don't think anyone forces people to use the newest equipment on the market. If anyone chooses to quit bowhunting because manufacturer continue to market new products not only is that sad but these people were also not dedicated hunters in the first place. If I am not mistaken tradtional archery equipment is still available for sale.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Add the fact that much of the bow industry has tried to consolidate 3D gear with bowhunting gear. THAT was a big mistake and caused much of the gear to be impractical for bowhunting <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

How so???????? You take all the qualities of an accurate and forgiving tournament bow and build it into a hunting bow and that is a bad thing???????????????????????

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>too expensive for what you get in return.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

So is gas should we quit using gas too. The better question is why do you care how I spend my hard earned money????????????????? I personally enjoy trying new &quot;toys&quot; but I am not under the belief that I can't kill deer without them.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I recently read some articles that said that bow and bow accessory technology has just about peaked. That some of the technology and progress, and maybe much of the technology and progress, has been for the worse rather than for the good, and a rollback to certain designs and an elimination of certain gear is expected. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Do you believe everything you read? What makes this one article right when the consensus of archers are enjoying continued innovation?

These are just a few of my questions. I am sure there are more to come.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

Edited by - silentassassin on 10/31/2002 08:22:29

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Pa

Sorry dude but that proficent statement is a joke! More of my trad pards are more &quot;proficent&quot; then the &quot;bowhunters&quot; I am seeing up here. Sorry 3d and paper is one thing. That said, even a decent trad archer can put out groups. The coin goes both ways!

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Agreed. There are definitely two sides to every coin. Though you may not be seeing it specifically in your area I do still strongly feel that some bowhunters are definitely more proficient with modern gear than they would be with traditional gear.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

I wont doubt that...many more doors are opened for the &quot;weekend warrior's&quot; but that in itself is a misdomener! Its supposed to be fun, and at what level you want to hunt is one thing.

Trad is supposed to be easy...ya right, get a life if you keep telling yourself that! Thats another!

Sorry if it sounded or sounds like I am attacking you, I aint!

And one last comment for all...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>respectable and dedicated to bowhunting <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> is one helluva dying breed!

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

This is a great topic ... especially for us ancient arrow flingers.

I owned the following equipment in 1972: A Bear Grizzly recurve 45/50#, a quiver, 6 fiberglass and 6 aluminum arrows and 3 Bear broadheads. That gear was retired in 1984 (12 years). I bought my first compound with 4 round wheels, 12 aluminum 2114 arrows and a quiver. That gear was semi retired in 1998 (14 years).

1999: I bought a release, a Bear 2 cam, sights, peep, arrow rest and arrows.
2000: Sold the 2 cam for a Jennings single cam and bought new arrows, new release, peep and sights, new quiver and a new arrow rest.
2001: Bought a PSE Target bow for indoor with all new accessories.
2002: Sold the Jennings and bought a Golden Eagle, new arrows, new rest, blah blah blah ....

I never seemed to find a combination in harmony with each other. Does my bow exist? Will I ever find a combo that is &quot;mine&quot;?

Every gear purchase I've made since 1998 was plaqued with decisions such as &quot;Is this arrow rest better for indoor than that one?&quot; &quot;If I get an overdraw, what spine would I need?&quot; Thankfully, I am dedicated to my sport and have access to the Internet and all the information needed to get my equipment tuned but I wonder how many beginners are frustrated. Hell, I'm frustrated!

I miss the simplicity of bowhunting. The new gear increases accuracy, efficency, speed and everything else. The problem as I see it is the crucial setup needs of the new equipment. The solid wall makes draw length critical. The let off valley is critical when you want to let down a shot. The spine of the arrow cannot be chosen by the arrow charts alone anymore (trial and error with several spines are needed). You need to re-tune your equipment every time you make a small adjustment (and every accessory is adjustable).

In the early days you decided what draw weight you needed. Pick the arrow spine from the chart, go home and start practicing (and never stop). The bow became part of you and you were part of it. You wouldn't even THINK of changing bows after your bonding process was complete.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

No new stuff for me. I still have the same set up I had for 20 years. There is no substiute for talent. ha

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Lilhunter, who said trad is supposed to be easy? I would love to take up traditional archery and bowhunting, but I am not good enough yet. I think most guys here would agree that traditional takes more practice and commitment to be effective and if they don't they haven't tried it.

Fredbearfan, you bring up some excellent points, but I there is something we need to consider. In the past when we bought a bow, set the draw weight, bought corresponding arrows and then went and shot all seemed to be good. However, as time has gone on and technology and knowledge both grew problems became evident. Those same problems I'm sure existed with those old set ups, but we weren't aware that they were there so we didn't address them. For example, I highly doubt we were able to get good arrow flight shooting an arrow off of a rubber rest that simply adhered to the riser of the bow, but since we didn't know that this would have an adverse effect on our shooting it wasn't a known problem. I do believe that some of the &quot;problems&quot; that arise with set ups are manufacturer created to get archers to buy a new product, but on the other hand, many of the issues are real and should be addressed by the conscientious hunter/archer.

I am coming back around to the simpler is better mentality when it comes to taking gear into the field to hunt with. However, I still am very meticulous as to how that gear is set up and want it working to maximize my potential. IMO that should be the goal of every bowhunter when setting up their gear.

One negative that has come of all of this is that it gives bowhunters a margin of error in their own skills. They feel that these technological gadgets should make up for their lack of tuning, practice, form flaws, etc. and if it doesn't the gear is no good. I think that is what c903 may have been getting at (at least that is how I took it). Bowhunters today aren't taking the time to maximize their abilities to effectively take game with their gear and are using the gear as a crutch. Then when THEY screw up it's always, &quot;stupid broadheads, damn arrows, rest must have moved on me&quot; and on and on. I have fallen into this myself. I made a poor shot on a deer this year and got horrible penetration with a mechanical and thought, &quot;maybe I should switch to fixed blade heads.&quot; When I found the deer (which I was lucky to have done) I saw that the shot was off the mark which resulted in the poor penetration. I checked my gear and it was hitting the mark, so it was me that screwed up and I wanted to scapegoat my gear.

I don't see the advances in technology as a bad thing as long as we don't use it as an excuse to not practice, tune, and prepare for the hunt. If we use it properly it is an advantage, if we don't we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

c903 - It was a good read.

And it looks like a thought provoking topic. I usually find myself looking for ways to make things simpler, sometimes it works, sometimes not.

After 30 years, I now tend to not place as much importance on the gear but enjoy what time I have to be in the woods.



GForce

Shoot often - Hunt always

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Hntbry

&quot;the Simplicity of trad archery&quot;...should be more like, the mystic of trad archery, cuz there isnt any simplicity in it at all! Just getting set up CORRECTLY can be a lesson in disaster that spans many moons in which may end in complete frustration or melt down!

but saying all these add ons makes one more efficent? I can kill just as good with my trad gear! More effective? come on, the majority of game killed is under 20 yards with ALL bowhunting gear! There are many more comments made in this thread alone that are almost cysts to the bowhunting world with the comments made!

but your right, it takes the dedication and commitment to get there! That's the fun part!

Its All About Attitude!!!

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Lilhunter, I don't think the term &quot;simple&quot; when applying to trad gear was meant with any malicious intent. And when you think about it trad gear is simpler. A stick, a string, maybe a fur rest, a quiver and an arrow. No wheels, or cables, or springs, or sights, or stabilizers, or vibrations dampeners. And you are right that in the right hands it can be just as effective as a fully rigged compound and at times more effective depending on who is behind the bow. However, you must admit that the average person will have to spend less time practicing and preparing with a compound than they would with a stickbow. Compounds are more efficient. If not, then everyone would still be shooting recurves and fiberglass arrows. This should not become a compound vs. stickbow debate because both groups have many archers/bowhunters that are very dedicated to the sport. Unfortunately, there are some that are not as dedicated and those are the ones we should concern ourselves with no matter what they shoot.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

hehe, dont get me wrong...this is definatly not a stickbow vs wheels of any kind of debate! They are only tools.

its the &quot;terms&quot; that are so loosely spoken that erk me the wrong way! Naw I aint mad...very few times am I in this place. Its kinda hard to convey in writing with no emotions or exspressions behind it....one thing I need to work on as a writer in the near future eh!

The equipment is simple, a stick a string. &quot;Compounds are more efficient. If not, then everyone would still be shooting recurves and fiberglass arrows&quot;. I am sorry but I really disagree with this statement! It is EASIER but no more efficent in the bowhunters hand of the killing of game! This is the reason many bowhunters of today have switched. Less time, greater accuracy at long distance, but more so..MORE CONFIDENCE in themselves! The equipment is very capable of anything any set of wheels can do my friend, that has been proven. Its the NEED TO KILL WITH MINIMAL WORK! The hype from the industries showing big racks if you shoot MY bow or my Bh! I am sure you see where I am going. Watch what you say and how you word it for it is here, where we can become seperated! And as you know, once that happens, its all over but the cryin! The choice of equipment is a personal decision in which my thoughts are only for me! It is how one holds themselves when they consider themselves bowhunters or archers, that I care about greatly!

Your last sentence is what I am getting at. The archery and more importantly BowHUNTING world has blind eye'd itself for much to long! It's finally seen that many are not going to stand for it....may the path being taken, be straight and true!

Edited by - Lilhunter on 11/01/2002 15:47:44

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Lilhunter, I think you and I are definitely on the same side of the line on this issue. I think you can agree with this statement that I had made.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>And you are right that in the right hands it (trad gear) can be just as effective as a fully rigged compound and at times more effective depending on who is behind the bow. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

This statement that you made is what I meant when I said compounds were more efficient just in different words.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>This is the reason many bowhunters of today have switched. Less time, greater accuracy at long distance, but more so..MORE CONFIDENCE in themselves! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I guess by efficiency, I meant efficiency in becoming familiar and accurate with your gear, not efficiency in taking game. It sounds to me like you and I both have a deep love for bowhunting and are very committed to it, but we have chosen different tools to use in our ventures. With that, the only thing left to be said to you is good luck the rest of this season and continue to spread the love of bowhunting, becasue we know it is contageous.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

I'm new to bowhunting so I don't have the perspective that many of the veterans have. I've never shot anything but a compound bow (those plastic things in gym class don't count!)so I can't judge how much harder or easier traditional gear is to use and maintain.

I do know that one of the differences today is that people just don't have as much time as they did years ago to devote to becoming proficient with traditional gear. Hunters today, myself included, benefit from the advances in equipment that allows us to shoot once a week or every other week and still have the proficiency to hit a target the size of a deers vitals 90+% of the time at 30 or 35 yards. I've shot guns for years and it was a minimal amount of adjustment for me to go to the peep sight and sight pins on a modern compound. Many of the same principles I learned as a child concerning shooting form and technique with a gun carry over to my bow.

As far as &quot;state of the art&quot; I do agree that many of the latest and greatest innovations are not neccesary to take deer. My first bow was a Hoyt Raider that I bought in the early 90's. It had two wheels, no cams and I shot Easton aluminum arrows. Last year I bought a Hoyt Magnatech with a Redline cam and it shoots carbon arrows at blazing speed. I pulled my old Raider out just before the season to shoot it once more and had been thinking of selling it. I shot BETTER groups at 20 yards with it and the eastons than I do with my new bow.

That's not to say that I don't like my new bow. As the distances increase my new bow is more reliable and more forgiving of range estimation errors. Still, I doubt that I will ever sell my old bow, I will probably keep it as a permanent back-up bow. One day I will pull that old bow out of the closet and take it into the woods and it will send the arrow that harvests a deer and I will take a special pride in that moment.

I can understand the motives behind traditionalists and I admire and respect their choice, but in turn I deserve their respect in the way I have chosen to hunt. We are both bowhunters, just as much as the flyfisherman wielding a modern flyrod and the panfisherman holding a cane pole are both fishermen. What's in heart is what matters.

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

Things change,we change and adapt.We can sit here 20 years from now and discuss the very issue over again.If you played golf 20 years ago and were to compare the changed you would have the same results.

I believe that the new equipment has kept bowhunting alive.It has brought us to this age and compliments the complexities of modern life.

Hunting in its own right has changed,which will be the life blood of the industry.When it is no longer expedient to pack up and go hunting,which I feel is the bigger issue,the changes will reflect the times.

I hear it in every aspect of my life,Oh,The good ole days.The reality is that they are here for most of us and when we get old and fuzzy we will be able to reflect and say &quot;Remember when Mathews came out with the Legacy&quot;

RE: Bowhunting yesterday vs. bowhunting today
 

c903,

I agree with most of what you said. I started my bowhunting 32 years ago with a recurve. I killed many animals with it for 11 years, before I switched to a compound (the recurve broke). Killing animals never seemed very difficult with the recurve. Hit 'em in the lungs and they were dead. No fancy gadgets of any kind. Basically, a stick, a string and an arrow. I remember when I first put cat whiskers on the string. I thought that was high tech.

For me, killing big game hasn't gotten any easier over the years, but then I always approached hunting with the philosophy of, &quot;He who gets closest, wins.&quot; Being a good shot never even occurred to me as being necessary. My first six animals were shot within 10 yards and after that only one was shot past 15 yards and that was an elk at 17 yards. With a compound, my longest shot has been 23 yards. How much hight tech do you really need if you're able to get close to your quarry?

If hunting ever turns into, &quot;How far out can it be before I can't shoot?&quot;, then I'm likely to quit. That's the rifle game and I don't care for it. You see, for me the whole thrill is getting personal with the animal. I want to see it's breath, hear it's footsteps on wet leaves, and see it's nostrils move as it tests the wind. I'm most proud when I get a 3 or 4 yard shot. It means I did what I was supposed to do, which is become invisible to the deer. For me, the accuracy thing is only fun or necessary when I'm shooting at paper.

Maybe I could sum up my feelings this way. Given the choice between successfully making a 60 yard heart shot on a running deer or or getting a 3 yard broadside shot on a standing deer, I'll take the close shot every time. It's far more exciting for me to have the deer right next to me. Making a long distance shot gives me little thrill.