0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

Guys,
I have a question. Until know I thought if you wanted to shoot one pin out to 30 yards w. little to no drop you needed a smoken fast bow, thus pulling back a lot of weight……etc. Well maybe not.I was at the bow shop last night shooting an Allegiance (currently have
a Mighty Might VFT) anyway, I was telling the guy my main goal is to have one pin out to 30 yards.... with maybe a few inch drop. He told me a 60 pound bow might be better for doing that as I don't have to shoot such a heavy arrow and it won't drop as fast. This made sense. However, I don't want to sacrifice knock down power. Probably should have mentioned that I hunt ONLY don't target or comp shot.... well if I do I shoot my hunting set up. Anyway, so where is the happy medium? Where is the border line where I can shot a lighter total weight arrow set up, ave a very flat shooting bow out to 30 yards and still have very good knock down power. I'm concerned with knock down power as this year I shot a doe at 30 yards and as soon as I released she took a step back and I ended up hitting her in the front shoulders and got a total pass through. The exit looked like a bomb went off. This was with a NAP spitfire and total weight of 390 grain out of a mighty mite set at 71.5 pounds and 29" draw. By the way, I can tug back 70# with now problem, but won't mind 60-65 if I can get a flatter tradrectory out of it.
what do you guys think???

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

You'll never have a bow shoot 0 - 30 yards with little to no drop. I have a bow that shoots 321 fps IBO, with a Surelock movable sight and have yardage markings from 20 - 80 yards in 5 yard increments. The gap between 20 yds and 50 yds is less than 1/2". From 20 to 30 yds is slightly over 1/8". My point is that you should either sight in one pin for 25 yds and see what the drop is at 30 yds so you know where to hold. Or have standard - 20, 30,40 and 50 yd pins, and bracket them for in between yardages. I use a 4 pin sight for hunting and have slowed my bow down to 275 fps so my pins are not so close together. This works well for me.
Good luck.

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

I'm shooting a 425 gr. arrow at right around 290. I shoot a single pin sight set at 25 yards. At 20 yards I am 1 inch high and at 30 yards I am 1.5" low.

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

I know some guys that do just that with less than 60, I think 2 of them are at 55. No problems. You can find them here.

http://btreviews.proboards57.com

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

I'm almost like that...;)

I shoot a 421 gr. arrow and right at 272 fps. I shoot a single pin Vital Bow Gear pendulum (but locked up for flat ground shooting) and have it sighted for 20 yards.

Over the weekend, I was out in the backyard shooting my new bow and stepped back to 25 yards. I aimed near the top of the small bullseye on a Block 4X4 and the arrow hit the dead center, which comes out to maybe 1.5" difference between 20 and 25 yards.

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

If you are just a bow hunter and not all that concerned at hitting a dime at 30 yards and just want kill shots well what Greag told you is 100% true. Set a pin for 25 yards and see if you can live with the results between 20 and 30 yards. I get about 1 inch difference with my hunting set up. But you are right its great to know when that bad bou comes in 30 yards or closer you don't have to worry about guessing just put that pin on him and wack. I shot 4 deer like that last year and never missed a one. Mike

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

I always like the theoretical questions. This one seems to be... does it make sense to drop my weight from 71# to say 65#, select a lighter arrow than the 390 grains I'm shooting now and wind up increasing my speed to get a flatter trajectory?

Well I made some base assumptions. I took a 71# bow with an 8" brace, 30" draw an SEP of 1.2 and 100 grains virtual mass that launches launches a 390 grain arrow at 280 ft/sec and calculated the speed at 65# peak. Turns out to be 267.9 or a loss of 12.1 ft/sec. Now to get that speed back you would need to drop your arrow weight 42 grains or down to 348 grains total weight. BTW you would loose 7.2 ft/lbs of KE and 0.05 pound seconds of momentum in the trade and so far no change in trjectory. Now if you took your arrow weight down to the minimum for 65# of 325 grains you would take your speed up to 287.7 for a total gain of 7.7 ft/sec and a total ke loss of 8.2 foot/lbs but you won't even notice a change in trajectory. Doesn't seem like a very good idea at all to me.Besides you could just leave the bow at 71# and go to a 365 grain arrow and pick up 7.4 ft/sec and only loose 0.9 ft/lbs ke?

IMO, shoot all the weight you can comfortably shoot. It makes no sense to me to lower your weight in an attempt to increase speed.

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

Excellent post Sylvan.

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

I shoot a 70 # Hoyt Razortec, 29" Draw with Terminator Hunter arrows that weigh a total of 509 grains. This gets me 265 fps and 79 ft-lbs KE. I've found I can shoot one pin from zero to 30 yards. I sight in at 25 yards. At 15 yards, I'm about an inch high. At 30 yards I'm about 2 inches low. For hunting situations this is fine.I rarely shootpast 25 yardsat a deer. If I do I just hold a 2 inches high.

I used to shoot CX 300 arrows (394 grains total) out of the same bow. The lighter arrow didn't get me any flatter trajectory. In fact, I actually got a flatter trajectory with the HEAVIER arrow - go figure. Maybe the heavier arrow holds its speed better at longer distances since it is affected less by wind resistance. I don't know. The heavier setup gets me a good trajectory and a ton of knock down power. Plus my bow is ALOT quieter with the heavier setup. I'm ditching my light carbon arrows....

You should download the Pinwheel Software for Archers. You can get a free one week trial from their website. You can model any bow, any setup, any arrow etc.to see your trajectory, speed, KE, and all that other stuff. www.pinwheelsoftware.com

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

Thanks buckeyebuckhntr! :)

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

i shoot 67# and get 82#k.e. and get 315 fps. thats just about right!:D

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

now stupid question. What is the optimum arrow wt. per pound of bow weight. What is the minimum shaft weight for a 70 pound bow. Is there a balance between broad head and shaft weight??

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

It's definately not a stupid question! If only there was a simple answer. Problem is, many if not most properties in archery that you want to "optimize for" are trade offs. Arrow weight is a good example. As you go lighter and lighter you wil continue to increase speed but the cost is a less efficient bow, less kinetic energy and momentum, probablynoisier and you may shorten the life of the bow. As you go heavier and heavier the reverse is true. You will get as many opinions on what is optimum as you have archers so you have to decide on the happy medium for yourself. Personally, I like to error just a biton the heavy side. I wouldn't be comfortablewith either extreme. But hey, you can quite effectively kill deer at either end of the spectrum so I guess my advice is to learn as much as you can about the tradeoffs and make your own decision.

Generally the total arrow weight is considered to be 5 grains per pound minimum. So for 70#'s minimum total weight would be 350 grains. I should add that the 5 grains/pound is very much an opinion too. It wasn't all that long ago that the consensus was 6 grains/pound.

Yes and F.O.C. is a property that adresses it. Generally an F.O.C. of 10 to 15% is considered proper. FOC is the percentage the arrows center of gravity falls in front of the center of the shaft as determined by length.


Here is a good site if you'd likemore detail... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/joetapley/

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

I am keeping my mouth shut for now about the weight of hunting arrows....at least until it gets closer to deer hunting season;).

One pin can and will do for up to 30 yards just fine if that is what you want to do. Although for 3D I do have 4 pins on my bow, for hunting I can use one pin sighted dead on at 15 yards and use it fine for up to 30 yards. All I do is hold my 15 yard pin ever so slightly higher than a spot on the target. For 20 its a hair and I do mean a hair higher. For 30 yards just slightly higher. Its easier for some to do that than gap pins when hunting and I find it faster.

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

I am shooting 314 out of my Trkon and there is no way I can hold center on a 30 yard target and stay there. For me on weight of a hunting arrow I tend to stay right around 410-415. It has worked for me for many years so I have a hard time changing anything..

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

guys, this has been a great post. THANKS. Last question for this post. What do you guys think my bow is shooting.... speed wise.

I have an 04 Bowtech mighty mite VFT 71.5# @ 29" draw. Shooting Goldtip 7595's w/ 100 grain tip. I put them on the scale and they're 390 grain. I have a peep, whisker bisquit and std. bowtech silencers, have a loop too..... think I covered everything.

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

anyone what to comment on my last reply about speed??

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

bowtech tribute shoot through the chonograph @ 300 fps with a arrow that weigh 325 grains total. 63 lbs I have it set at with 28 inch draw.. must guys are getting to heavy arrow.. if you multiply 63 times 5 gives you will get 315 if you shoot a arrow that is 5 times the weigh you are pulling and you are over that you are fine and the closer you get to that number with going under you will get max performance and you can get up to 30 yards with no drop.. I shoot 0-30 with one pin!!!!

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

also i get 64 of kenectic energy which is a lot of force for a light arrow!!!

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

also i get 64 of kenectic energy which is a lot of force for a light arrow!!!

RE: 0-30 yards+ 1 pin little to no drop?
 

if you shoot an arrow that total weigh was 370 grains you would get max performance and a lot of kenetic energy too.