Talondale

I liked the VisionQuest series too. Very informative and they had doe hunts as well as buck. They're a little dated now though. I also liked Roger Raglin because he gave you some tips and tricks and what was going on in the hunt, plus he's funny (in a hyper way).

I got the October Whitetails I and II on a double DVD from Bass Pro last month and watching it again for the first time in years I was struck by how many shots at running deer there are. Coming from a forum full of guys who cut no slack for stupid shot placement I'm suprised this video is held so dear (no pun intended)by so many here. Sure they are proficient and practiceonmoving targets but some guys here won't shoot on a deer unless it's quartering away and standing still, unalert, let alone running. It just seemed like a bad thing to be showing on video to a bunch ofimpressionable hunters. I think theyknow it too, because there was a disclaimer about shooting at running deer before thesecond video. To be fair, there were some good techniques showed as well, how to stalk corn rows and such.Definitely looked like an 80's hunting video though.

I like Primos because they seem like warm, down-home, regular hunters and their bowhunting DVDs have been great. Realtree can be entertaining, I like their antics between hunts, but it's really more of a fantasy hunt series. This is what it would be like if you had plenty of money to go to all the different guided hunts and they would put you on their best spots. It's kind of like watching a Sports Illustrated Swimsuit movie. This is what you can never have and never relate to but it's still nice to watch. I callit hunting voyerism. Not many shows are informative anymore besides obvious basic stuff, or hunting in high pressure public access or private non-managed land.

As far as Drury Brothers, they really annoyed me back when they were just starting, and on Realtree. Nothing specifically, just that their personality seemed to bug me. But it sounds like I should give them another chance according to all the posts. Maybe I'll pick up this years edition and give them another look. If they are telling you why they picked the spot they are in (besides "the deer are bedding in the mountains and coming down to these alfalfa fields in the evening")and what their strategy is then that's my kind of video.

Speaking of which is there any video that goes into the details of how they hunt. Maybe even showing topo maps and what features they're looking for? How to pick a stand location in a new area. Things to look for while scouting, stand selection, seasonal based tactics, and other tips. Kind of like a hunting beyond the basics. I saw a video listed on the Outdoor channel that sounded like that by the Title (Hunting 101 or Beyond the Basics or something like that) but I was really disappointed in the show. I'd like something like advanced techniques for bowhunting. Seems like all videos make the first assumption that we will be all hunting in prime trophy territory, with lots of unpressured deer and then make their tips based on that. Since "Reality TV" is so big, I have a great suggestion for a video series. What about a "Hunters Challenge" series. Where hunters around the country send an invitation to have a pro come hunt their stomping grounds and show how the pro does. See how they pick their spot and what they see and how well they do. Obviously they aren't going to have all the jaw dropping bucks but the storyline would be interesting.

Flix

Talondale - You're right about many of the older (classic) bowhunting videos containing shots that we today would decry as unethical. Times have changed, and hunting ethics have evolved. These videos are still valuable in my opinion - they just need to be viewed in context of the time they were made.

Tink has made this point in reference to such icons as Howard Hill and Fred Bear.

Proff

Talondale, at the end of your post you told of a great idea that you would like to see, and it is one that a few of my buddies and some guys at work have talked about before. That is to have some of these "so called" Pros come to us average everyday hunters areas and have a weekend or a few days or so to have a succesful hunt in our hunting woods. Somewhere that a guide doesn't have pictures or video of different bucks that the hunter chooses the one that he wants to kill. Where they don't already have the stand hung right in the bucks core area and where they are feeding it etc. etc. Have them come in and hunt the way we do and have to read the sign and set up all their own stands etc. I bet that they wouldn't be any better than any other of us hard core guys who really put in the time and effort. I am not speaking out of jelousy or in a mean spirited way. Hey, those guys found a way to do what alot of us dream about. But it is just that so many are held up on pedastals and revered because of their extraordinary talent at killing big bucks all the time. But most of these guys are just afforded the ideal situation hunt after hunt, and I really believe not any more talented than any of some of us on here who work hard at hunting. Now I am NOT saying all of them. I know that guys like Myles Keller and some of the guys that we see on the Outdoor Channel do hunt public land and private land that are do it yourself hunts, and are very successful, and I applaud these guys. But way too many of them just go from game ranch to game ranch to private land that oufitters lease and everyone does all the scouting, stand placement etc. All these guys have to do is get taken out to the stand, climb in spend the next week to 10 days waiting for that buck to come in and drill it, or they sit on some ranch with 30 or 40 bucks walking by that day until they shoot the one they want. Then they edit down all the video, and WALA!!! they are abowhunting expert and celebrity.That doesn't take a whole lot of talent. I just honestly beleive that there many, many of us regular guys right here on this forum that are just as good if not better than these guys. More importantly, some of these guys I watch, I honestly beleive that if they were put in the same situations that we are, would not be as good nor as succesful as they are perceived to be. That is just my ( and alot of others) honest opinion. I really think that would be a great concept for a show. I really think that would really weed out some of the hunting celebs we see on TV and video.

Talondale

Well, Proff, my idea wasn't so much an expose' or embarrass the pro concept, as a chance to have a pro come look at your hunting situation and show you how they'd hunt it. Granted, video pros have the prime pickings as far as hunting locations but that's just to insure they have a source of income the next year. They have to produce 8 or more impressive kills a year, and on film! I know they have to hedge their odds to stay afloat and I don't begrudge them that. I just can't relate to hunting in those kind of areas. Heck, I can't relate to some of the areas you guys hunt (hello cornbelt hunters ). I know I've gone to some places that seemed a walk in the park to hunt compared to my usual hunting grounds. My thoughts are it would be fun to have a pro review your area and compare notes with. Several times I've wondered "What would *insert respected pro of choice* do in this situation?" If nothing else, just to see if we'd agree. I'm not sure I'd want him to come and shoot the best buck on the property though. LOL. I think a lot of the video pros had to pay their dues before they got in front of a camera. From what I know, they were either 3D pros, writers, Calling champions,or had a number of good record bucks under their belt on their ownbefore they got a shot in front of the camera. (or owned, or worked for, the company sponsoring the video. LOL ) So most of those guys had it hard before they were on "easy street". Still, give them credit, when the big buck is there and their LIVING is on the line (double pressure), plus national criticism (miss that easy shot and every trade show for the rest of your life people are going to ask you how you could possibly miss that shot) and they get the job done.

elkbane

I really like the Primos Big Bulls series. The newest edition (big bulls 9) shows a bull that is called within about 2 yards of the hunter... not too shabby.

Proff

Talondale, you are right. After I posted I thought about it and hoped that I didn't come across the right way. I have thought alot of times that I would love to have Gene or Barry Wensel, Will Primos, Greg Miller or some of the other guys come to my woods and see how they set up and how close our hunting tactics and set ups are. That would be really cool. And beleive me, I really in now way meant to dismiss some of these guys as not being good hunters, because I know that most of them are. They still have to make the shot etc. But, there are so many shows and videos these days that some have some people on there who really shoudn't be. I don't know if you have the Outdoor Channel or not, but man, it amazes me some of the stuff I see some of these "pros" do and say. I just honestly beleive that some of them really don't have the know how to be doing what they are doing, but they are able to have some success because of the incredible situations that they are able to be in. Do you know what I mean? I hope I get across what I am trying to say. But please beleive me, I am in now way lumping all these guys in that category. I know that alot of them are very knowledgable bowhunters, have paid their dues and deserve to be where they are today. But , as in everything, there are those who are not. I remember a few years ago there was a show on there where the hosts were a guy and his wife. I foundout later a little bit about it, and the womens dad was a very wealthy guy who basically bought his daughter and son in law into a hunting show. Anyhow, you wouldn't beleive how little they really know about deer hunting. I remember one show in particular. The next day at work about 4 or 5 guys came up to me during the day and commented about how stupid the hunt and something that the women said on the show was. I watched it that night because it said that they would be hunting Ohio, my home stste. To make a long story short, she was all pumped up because it would be her first hunt with a crossbow and her first in Ohio. They showed the guy from the hunting preserve pick her up at the airport. Then they showed her eating a fancy lunch at the main lodge. Then they drove her out to her stand. Now when I say drove her to the stand, I mean it. They drove up to one of those scissors lift box stands. She stepped out of the truck on one foot and into the box blind with the other foot. Didn't even have to walk one step!! They raised the blind up and she was " Hunting"! They showed her napping, then the guide woke her up because it was about prime time. Within a few minutes the deer started pouring in to the field in front of them and right to the electric feeder beside them. She shot a buck. When they recovered it, she looked at the camera and said she was really excited, cause they "worked really hard for the buck!!" That is the stuff that drives me crazy. That is what I was meaning, people like that. So hopefully you know what I was talking about in my post. There are alot of them I respect and admire. But there are alot that I know don't have half the talent and know how that alot of us regular guys do.

Flix

Talondale,

You and I need to get together on this. I just came up with a great new hunting show: "Pimp My Hunt". No?Maybe "Extreme Hunt Makeover". . .

Each week, a guest celebrity/hunter/know-it-all will show up on a hunter's porch just he's heading out, or suprise him in camp, lavish him with fancy new gear and duds (courtesy of the sponsors) and help him take his game "to the next level."

His wife and hunting buddies would all be in on it, letting the producers know what his weaknesses are, what about his hunting area stumps him, or what areas he is convinced that he is a hunting god.

Now that's good TV!

-- FLIX