Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Anyone shoot their deer in the shoulder with an arrow? Everything I've experienced and have read indicates a Shoulder shot will make the animal lay down and expire sooner, making for an easier recovery. With rifle anyways. I've never been fortunate enough to take anything with Bow and arrow.

I know archery is a whole other ball game. But with Bow and arrow, especially with modern bows putting out 55-60 lbft of KE. (at range) It seems like it should be doable.(inside 30 yds anyways) I suppose it's a practical study of effective and actual penetration rather than what the numbers say.

Just for anecdotal evidence My dad shot a 200 lb Feral Hog in the shoulder blade with a 60 lb PSE 10 yrs ago and got a clean pass through. I'm pretty sure it would work with a 100 lb Whitetail.

What do you guys think? Personal experience would be helpful.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Rifles kill in a different way than a broad head tipped arrow does. You may put a deer down putting an arrow in the shoulder, but then again you may not. It is no where near as effective as it is with a rifle or slug gun. Same thing for a neck shot. With a bow you are better off going for the double lung shot and better yet a pass thru shot.

Paul

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Shoulder shot is not a good idea with a bow. Shoot just behind the shoulder get a double lung and the deer wont go 50 yds. My buddy shot one one morning perfectly right in the shoulder a complete pass thru. He called me at 8 on the cell and told me to look out for him. About an hour later I see a buck comming and sure enough he has a blood spot right in the center of his left shoulder. I watched him a far as I could. Long story short my friend never found that buck, There was no blood trail by me at all.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Not with a bow, bad idea. If you hit the spine of the shoulderblade, the thick part, it is doubtful that the shot will be fatal. No sense risking a wounded deer.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Yeah, I wouldnt actually try and hit the shoulder...aim behind it.

That said, I have hit dear in the shoulder BLADE and got penetration through both of them with no problem, but the shoulder blade is a fairly thin bone. You hit them in the big bone connected to the blade, then its not a good thing. The couple I have hit in the shoulder have expired IMO no quicker than a good behind the shoulder hit.

Stick it through the ribs.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

hey Motow same thing happened to a pair of friends this past season on our hunting trip to Zapata TX never found those bucks[:@]

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

100 lb Whitetail? Who the heck wants to shoot a 100 pound whitetail? A big buck will run closer to 200 - 300 on the hoof, an average big buck anyhow.

Shoulder shot = bad idea.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Central Texas, free ranging whitetail dont get much bigger than 100 lbs. I shot a nice 8pt in '04 and it might have weighed 140 somethin field dressed. Aged at 3 1/2 yrs. heaviest deer anyone had killed on our place in several years. Most of the mature does are anywhere from 80-110 lbs Field dressed(guestimate, we've never had a scale out there to weigh 'em) These aint no moster yankee deer! :D 250 lbs would be an extremely rare deer down here.

Now, on the high fenced, protein fed, farm raising, managed game ranches, that's another story.... and altogether different debate to begin with.

I do see what you guys mean about the shoulder shot. I'm just trying to draw from a larger pool of experience. Numbers and written estimations are no match for experience.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Really? Everything else down there is (supposedly) so darned big!? :D
I knew that the deer were smaller bodied, I just never knew how much.

Shoulder shots are still a bad idea tho ;)

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

100 lb Whitetail? Who the heck wants to shoot a 100 pound whitetail? A big buck will run closer to 200 - 300 on the hoof, an average big buck anyhow.

Shoulder shot = bad idea.
[/quote]
Here in my part of the world, Eastern NC a 200 lb deer is a rare trophy 300.. no way, the average buck size is 130 lbs. Maybe he wants to shoot a doe. Not everyone has the luxury of living where they get as big a cows. Just think about this before you start condemming someone's size choice.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

The truth is a broadhead from a decent bow will more than likely blow right through the actual shoulder blade (it's pretty thin like a ribactually except for a ridge that runs about 2/3 up the blade). The problem I have seen is that the shoulder blade itself is attached to some serious bone. If you are off by an inch or 2 you could hit the shoulder socket itself and I don't care what you are shooting in terms of lbs draw and what brand of broadhead but if you hit a deer right on the point of the shoulder it isn't making it through the deer.

Save the shoulder shots for the guns, they are designed to drop animals this way. With a bow you are trying to slice through as much vital material as possible and that is located behind the shoulder. One of the big things for a guy picking up the bow from gun hunting is learning to pass onthe quartering towards shot and hold off for the broadside or quartering away shot.

After you have shota few and seen how that broadhead works inside the deer you'll see why you want to avoid the shoulder.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

I had my chance at a muture whitetail buck that i later found out scored 167 1\4 i never found it after shooting it in the shoulder blade from close to 25yards

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Shoulder shots are not a good option. Yes you can still kill and find the deer, but it introduces much more that can go wrong. You want to reduce things that can go wrong. Stick with the ribcage.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

A shoulder shot with a bow might not be the wisest choice to make. Odds are, that it might kill the deer, but odds are also that it most likely will not. The shoulder blade is not as thick as most people assume. But with a bow, a misplaced shot of only a couple inches (when aiming at the shoulder) could spell disaster.(too many things could go wrong)


(WITH A GUN)
Alot of people have seen deer drop immediately after being hit in the shoulder blade. What they are actually seeing is a (high shoulder shot) and the actual reason for the deer dropping is not because it was hit in the shoulder. It was because there is a major nerve (slightly above yet slightly behind) the top of the shoulder blade.This areais literally rittled with mass quantities of connecting tissues that possesmanynerves. If this area is hit, it will cause the deer to drop immediately (actually paralyzing the deer)
Howevera (bullet) slaming into a shoulder blade can still kill a deer due to the fact that portions of the vital zone are present behind the rearward quadrant of the shoulder blade. And if the vitals are peirced by any projectile, it will eventually kill that deer.

I personally do not like taking shoulder shots. I like to aim right behind the shoulder. It offers me greater surface area of the vital zone. Plush I wont ruin frontal shoulder meat in the process.

There is yet another way that a shoulder shot can bring a deer to stop very quickly (without hitting the nerves in the upper portin of the shoulder). This is actually to have the luck to break (BOTH) shoulders, making a complete pass through. When an animal has (BOTH) of their front shoulders broken, they are not going to go far. This is a method that is used to stop grizzly bears. It offers ultimate stopping power on dangerous game, and so the same any animal (including deer)

Again, I would not take any shoulder shot with a bow. But I personally dont like taking shoulder shots anyways. But thats just me. A shoulder shot will kill deer, but so will a nicely placed shot behind the shoulder as well.

GOOD LUCK AND GOOD HUNTING.:):):)

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

I've shot one in the shoulder on accident, I WILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN....i never found the deer ( a big buck with a strange rack, 4 on the right that were all about 12" high and 3 on the left with a split into a drop tine that was about 8" long.) I never found it and have beating myself up over it ever since. For most midwestern guys bucks we are taking are around 150-250 lbs. depending on maturity of the deer. I won't ever do that again. I was young, but that's no excuse.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Not to mention that the spine dips down and sits directly behind the shoulder of a deer. I know there is a lot of connective and nerve things going on in this joint but I would think that the massive amount of energy released into a should blade would have a 'Short circuit' affect on the entire CNS due more in part to the location of the spinal cord in relation to that bone?
Since many gun hunters are shooting from eye level that puts the results of a direct shoulder hit in line with the spine as well.

Thoughts? I'm not a big gun hunter but I always thought that the deer dropping from a shoulder shot was a result of the affect on the CNS thru the spinal column itself.

(Buckstalker, sorry that it seems like I keep finding your posts to debate!:D)

And I agree with everyone, shoulder shot with a bow..........BAD. Why take a shot where you may or may not kill the animal cleanly when only a few inches away is a target much larger and that with a quality broadhead and sufficient penetration you are almost guaranteed of a quick and humane kill?
Avoid as much bone as possible and shoot em' in the lungs everytime.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Its ok matt, im starting to get used to the debates in here.:D:D

What you say is correct as well. It all correlates around the central nervous system (which is actually what I was talking about when I said that area was rittled with nerves)
I also think you would even agree that taking a spine shot would be risky regardless whether its behind the shoulder or further back.
I agree with you, nothing beats a good old shot to the lungs.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

It almost sounds like we were saying the same things, yet in a different way.
Notice, that I said if the bullet hit that (AREA) it would give a paralyzing effect, causingthe deerto drop.
And you said that the massive amount of energy introduced into the shoulder blade (which im assuming you mean by a "bullet") causes a "short circuit". Could this be like a paralyzing effect?
I basically think we were hitting the same points.
I never said that you had to hit the actual nerve to paralyze the animal.

You actually have a chance of hitting (6) major nerves when you penetrate the shoulder.

THE VAGUS NERVE: A rather moderate sized nerve that rides along the spinal collumn and sits behind the shoulder blade.
THE BRACHIAL PLEXUS: Another moderately sized nerve that sits behind the whole length of the shoulder blade.
THE RADIAL NERVE: This nerve is the largest nerve in diameter of the (6) nerves behind the shoulder. This also travels down the center of the shoulder blade .
THE AUXILLARY NERVE: This nerve sits right next to the radial nerve. This nerve is the smallest in diameter of the (6) nerves that sit behind the shoulder.
THE MEDIAN NERVE: This nerve also travels the route of the auxillary and radial nervebehind the shoulder and attaches to the frontal brachias area in front of the elbow.
THE ULNAR NERVE: This nerve also is located behing the shoulder, semi vertical and attaches to the back portion of the elbow area.

My point was, if you actually hit in this area, you will get the job done. And it is all about the central nervous system and the nerves therein. I have hit a deer in the shoulder and (it didn't bring it down) It seems that the bullet should have shocked those nerves though.......
but I bet if I hit the nerves in that area it would have dropped them.

I will say this matt, that every time I reply to any post,it seems that you like to come in and either question or belittle my intelect, regardless of what I have to say. I feel that this is my right to think this way, and I wonder if anyone else were to read your responses to mine, if they would think that you were trying to do this to me also.

I am actually thinking about leaving this forum, because everytime I try to help someone on here and give good advice and good knowledge...there is always someone that tries to come and eat from my plate.

You are right about the spine behind the shoulder

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

I will say that you do seem to be awfully sensitive.......
I was ASKING your thoughts on why I always assumed deer dropped due to bullet impacts in that region, and figured that the spinal cord proper would have a major affect on the end result.
I was looking for your input on the subject if you took the time to not become defensive as soon as someone has an opinion that even resembles questioning your "authority" on a subject.
This isn't my area of expertise but I couldn't help but notice the obvious when it came to deer anatomy.

That's all.......I'd rather you stay, and considering I've only ever addressed 2 subjects that you happened to post to in 6 years of being on this forum I think you might be overreacting a bit?:eek:

You seem like a good guy and definitely have some knowledge to share, sorry you are taking my posts as some sort of attack on your intelligence.

You are certainly entitled, and feel free to poll themand link our brief and limiteddiscussionsif you like.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Guys Guys.... WHOA....

Why so snarky sparky???

YOU'RE BOTH RIGHT!!!
Buckstalker and Matt have both brought important information to this forum. I don't know how two people who are both saying the same thing in different phrasing can bicker like this!!! [8D]

Shoulder Shot bad... the question was answered. No need for anyones toes to have been stepped on guys.

No shake hands and go play nice!!! ;)

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

I shoot for the vitals no matter if I am using my bow, muzzleloader, or rifle.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

I guess everyone just assumes we are talking about deer, or I might have just skimmed over and not seen that part. While I agree that a shoulder shot is not the best way to go on deer, a look at hog anatomy will tell a different story. Shoot a hog very much behind the shoulder, and unless he is quartering away your odds of recovering him have drastically decreased.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Quote from previous reply:


When an animal has (BOTH) of their front shoulders broken, they are not going to go far. This is a method that is used to stop grizzly bears. It offers ultimate stopping power on dangerous game, and so the same any animal (including deer)


This is true about hogs, but the original question from davoh was regarding deer.

quote from davoh:

Anyone shoot their deer in the shoulder with an arrow?

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Guess I just have hogs on the brain right now.;):D:D

The deer discussion may now resume.:D:D:D:D:D

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

shoot for the lungs.stay away from the shoulder period with a bow and arrow.......unless shooting with a firearm.if im shooting at a trophy buck a will hold a little on the shoulder so he doesnt go as far.if im doe hunting with a gun i will shoot behind the shoulder so you dont mess as much meat up.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

I always try to get right behind the shoulder because my dad always told me that a shoulder shot will prevent a pass through and keep frombleeding the deer out. But, I have taken shots at elk That have gone through the shoulder and it was no harder to find the elk than the deers I have droped. Though I did hear the shoulder break, it sounded like a tree branch breaking

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

.My personal experience is a double lung hit with a bow puts a deer down within sight, or ear shot if your hunting in thick brush, and if you hit the heart its even quicker. Guns kill by blunt force, broadheads kill by mass hemorraging.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Well, I am going to go against the grain somewhat here.

IMO if we are strictly talking about deer it depends on exactly what you are shooting.

Certain set up I wojuld most definetly stay away from the shoulder and leg bone. Such as my sons set up. He is only drawing 45 pounds with a 25" draw and shooting a relatively light arrow. Rib cage and broadside or quarting away only with him.

Other set ups I would have absolutely no problem shooting down through the shoulder or leg bone if I needed to. I personally shoot a 500 grain arrow and generate 80+ foot pounds of KE. With this set up I have no problem at all getting through the vitals after going through the shoulder blade or leg bone, or even through both legs, of a deer.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

Seems like every hunting video has at least one bow hunt in it where the hunters arrow hits the shoulder with lots of arrow sticking out. They always seem to recover them and some look to die in sight. I often wonder how when it looks like six inches of penetration with most of that being in the shoulder.........dabow

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

I would have to see the shoulder blade with the hole thru it to believe it. If you study deer anatomy you will see why the shoulder blade isn't where you want to put an arrow. Not a high percentage shot with a bow.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

The fact remains that anyone is entitled to shoot a deer wherever they want to. If you want to take shots at a deer's shoulder, go ahead. I however don't agree witha shot to the shoulder, especially if a shot to the vitals is offered.
I have also learned not to (take a head on shot)shoot a deerthat is standing facing you.And I would definately not recomend taking this shotwith a bow. I think odds are that you could kill the animal, but I also think odds are you could more likely wound the animal. Just because it's been seen onmany hunting shows, doesn't mean that its right. I seen guys on hunting shows take shots at running deer and kill them. This however doesn't mean that I will start shooting at running deer just because I seen it on television.
I believe I still uphold the values of what I was taught when I took my hunter's safety course.

If you wanna shoot them in the shoulder go ahead. It's each hunter's choice where and howthey place there shots. Just like how some hunters attempt to sight in their rifles or shotguns just before the season, and at the end of the day they still can'thit paper. But you will see them out on opening day with a that same exact gun that theyare perfectly awarethat it cannot shoot accurately. That also is up to them.To me this is irresponsiblity no matter what way you look at it. I alsofeel that it is irresponsible for a hunter to (take head on shots at deer, or shoot at a running deer, or shoot at a deer when a house is directly behind the deer) it is the hunter's responsibilityhave the patience and wait for a better shot (regardless)

Its just my personal opinion that a shoulder shot might not be the wisest of choices, especially with a bow.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

I am going to start head shooting all mine! I am such a good shot I will be able to cut its eye lashes if i so choose.:D

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

I was actually considering this also teejay.

But then I thought...darn!!!!! what a perfectly good waste of eyelashes:D:D:D:D:D

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

.

Probably the opposite. I'm sure someone has told you an arrow kills by causing massive blood loss, not shock. A deer shot through both lungs is going down quite quickly. How far he travels depends on a lot of things. I've shot 80 something deer with a bow. I've had them go a long ways and no ways at all. The ones where I hit heavy bone or heavy muscle seem on average to flee quicker, further and under more panic. If on the other hand you slip an arrow between the ribs and catch nothing butt soft tissue, they sometimes just take a hop or two and settle right back down. They react to the noise. They don't feel the arrow like they do when you're busting bones. I've had them just walk a couple steps and fall over this way. The deer shot through the shoulder will die in about the same time... it's just that fright makes him travel further. I personnally think it's much better to watch one flop over within sight.

RE: Shot placement thoughts... Shoulder blade.
 

I get it guys, shoulder shot BAD.... LOL it was just one of those random thoughts and since I have no one to personally talk to about these things, I blurt it out here.... the verbal flogging can cease! ;)