HOW LONG WILL IT GO ON
 

Well i was just sitting here thinking to myself if we get better and better bows every year how long can it keep up

1. There has to be a point in time where we can no longer get any better at making them and any faster if we keep up at this rate we will have bows that shoot 600 fps and make no sound and have no vibration at all and then what will happen will other bow companys just become obsolete that can not keep up ith the competition but make a fine bow.

2. When ever a new bow comes out we must have it ( well i fell tht way but i cant get it) and we rig it out to the full potential but whatever happened to the longbow a recurve bow hunting it has just become a past of our fine sport that all it involved was being able to aim and make a good shot and pull back the bow.

It was just something that came to me while i was sitting here

RE: HOW LONG WILL IT GO ON
 

well if the other companies cant keep up that means Very nice cheap bows for us:D...if they ever come out with bows that fast so be it... 260 fps is enough to kill adeer come on now... i would love to shoot a long bow in the future and make my own arrows thatd be swttt[:-]

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Have to agree with Ohiobowhunter56, my older Mathews is fast enough to kill deer and as long as it does, I see no need to change..... 600, wow could have arrow races! :D[8D]

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Eventually the engineers will create a bow that is so advanced it doesn't qualify as a "primitive" weapon. We've already been down that road to a certain degree...Remember when high let-off bows didn't qualify for P&Y?
Now, I certainly wouldn't want to still be shooting my Darton SL-50 @ 50% let-off (although I remember how nice it seemed in 1980), but I think my Trykon will be the bow they bury me with!

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Interesting, I still shoot my recurve *bear superkodiak* and I love it, That's a good question though. There has to be some point where we get as good as it can be.

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After a person decides to actually try bowhunting, and I mean bowhunting as a sport that doesn't focus on the killing rather its a focus on the journey of the arrow, everything changes. Bowhunting is recurves and longbows, no letoffs, no fancy gadgets, a thing where speed doesn't matter and the drive to make things easier is replaced with making the hunt more difficult.

And ironically, making it MORE difficult increases what people get out of hunting.

Compounds have done amazing things to the archery world, and they have done terrible things as well.

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What's funny is while we sit here drooling over the latest and greatest, next years "big new" bows are being designed and test fired at the various factories.

I'm not sure how much further archery can get, but I bet we were saying the same thing back in ~1995 when the "solo" cam had taken over as supreme gotta have rig.

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Let me tell you, back in 1975 I was at a college doing a speech class and I did a speech on the "New" Bear whitetail I had got. It was a noisey gadget and after my recurve I did not think the compound would take. And the controversy. Aboout 20 years, give or take later, I picked up a bow again. I was impressed how far they had come. I ended up a few years ago, 2002 with a Mathews Ultra Max, the sweetest bow I laid hands on. And I switched to a release and havent put the bow down much since.

As an older timer, I have to aske myself what the need for speed is. we have lighter arrows, faster bows, and why. We were killing deer with recurves and shooting bulls eyes with them, some pretty well! So why are we not focusing on accuracy and practice and hitting what you aim for. And I am not the only one to say it, whether it be a recurve, long bow, fast compound or slow compound, they all kill and kill effectively. All that means is the arrows passes through quicker. Why the need for speed is all i am asking, i never understood. I can hit the the cirle over and over with my Ultra Max, and i never have really had it tested for speed. But you know the deer I shot probably didnt notice whether it went at 250 or 500. All that mattered was deer in the freezer.

And I am curious, why the need for speed? And not being sarcastic, just really dont understand?

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I wouldn't doubt in the future states put more archery restrictions on...or set a season alone for compounds.

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JLmoore1956a co-worker of mine bought a used Parker off ArcheryTalk 2 weeks ago. 3 days after getting it, he took it hunting. He hasn't shot archery in many years, yet with this somewhat lower class compound, release, sights and rest, he was able to shoot time after time 3" groups at 20 yards with it.

Very, very few people could hit a 12" target every time after 3 days with a recurve or longbow, let alone 3" groups

Thats the difference, a compound is designed to make shooting easier plane and simple, and with each year it gets easier. I think something is being lost with that concept. And oddly enough, the compound is designed to make the shooting easier, yet most bowhunters hate the idea of crossbows, which ironically, are designed also to make the shooting easier

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The Mind: guess I never thought of it in those terms. I would say that i have seen parkers bows, and they arent too shabby themselves, cheaper but not bad.

And I didnt join the New York State Bowhunters because of crossbows. You are right with the speeds increasing and being easier, crossbows is just another way to enjoy hunting. If it was legal in NY I would use it. But alas, in Ohio my home state I can. Just think of the sales in stores or the hunting revenue that could be gained.

And I will tell you a secret, back in 1975 they wanted to Outlaw compounds....... now we are seeking to increase speed. Perhaps some of todays compound shooters would have to shoot recurve or long bow if they had outlawed them. Wonder what they would think of that, wouldn't nearly be as many I am sure because it would require little more time practice, and not as easy...... so they probably wouldn't. But yet some condemn a perfectly lethal way to hunt, because it has a trigger..... oops releases have a trigger, maybe we should outlaw the use of compounds, or compounds using releases and go back to the finger method!

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JLmoore1956 correct. At one time, there was no "traditional" archery. There was archery, and this new thing that people were trying to call a bow that was designed to make archery hunting easier to do.

Hmmmmmmmm, thats exactly the same argument that we find ourselves in today in most states, except archery as we know it now is compromised of mostly compound shooters, and the new bow is a crossbow. Sure, we can talk about all the subtle differences etc, but bottom line, everything that manufacturers do is geared towards one thing - making shooting the bow easier and increasing the chances of you killing a deer.

Now, on the surface thats a good thing, but eventually there will have to be lines drawn in the sand and hard one. I don't know how that can happen with everything thats now considered legal.

But I do know this, once a person decides to make archery hunting harder, to step back into what archery is suppose to be, they develope a whole new mindset on what archery is, and what it isn't, whats important about the hunt and what is not.

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The Mind, the bottom line is dollars! If the manufactuers make it eaiser and easier, then it increases the numbers, then cha ching! the cash register rings open!

RE: HOW LONG WILL IT GO ON
 

I'd say give it another 10-15 years and the compound will be practically extinct.Folks will switch over en masse to the crossbow once it's gotten legalized in most states. It'll be exactly what happened to recurves and longbows once the compound got legalized.

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Arthur, you are right, once it becomes available most might cross over, except us die hards. I don't mind them using, not sure I ever will though I could in home state of Ohio. Yes, compound bows extinct, guess I will save the old ones for antiques! [8D]

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Maybe it's because I'm still sorta young (24) but I guess I don't see the extinction of the compound bow in the future, nor the massive switchover to crossbows. Granted, I wasn't around for the creation of the compound, but I think there are just too many people right now that are into shooting archery, especially with the compound bow, for it to die. When I go to the pro shop, I don't see many long bows, but what I do see are a ton of people that are shooting their compound bows with good accuracy, but striving to get more accurate. 5 spot is still the benchmark for accuracy and no matter how good an archer is, there is always room for improvement. I think that the challenge of archery with compounds/recurves will keep the crossbow from overtaking in popularity. I hope at least...

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yep Yooper you are right, might last longer, but it is the generation behind you that will determine. From what I have seen, and it is not all, want the easy way. So if they can use the crossbow, slip into woods, shoot deer and then be back to get on the computer then maybe it will gain popularity. Guess it ain't gonna happen over night, but I am sure there will be a big increase with the crossbow.

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I guess I'm not an "archer", because if I couldn't hunt deer with a bow, I wouldn't shoot one at all, ever. I LOVE chasing whitetail deer. My bow is just a tool I use to do that. I screwed up my should this year, and used a crossbow, and it was neat being able to sit in my stand all comfy knowing I didn't have to stand up and draw if a biggun' came through. But on the negative side, this thing was HEAVY, and bulky, and a friggin' PAIN when walking through the woods..it's just cumbersome. I don't think compounds will die out. Guys who are good with them, will continue using them. The crossbow will just bring more people to hunting. I'm not sure exactly how I feel about that...selfishly, I want the woods for just ME. lol One other thing I want to mention. I've seen quite a few guys start out with crossbows, and after a year or two, go to the compound. I've yet to meet someone who started with compound and went to crossbow, unless they injured themselves and could shoot compound. (I'm just talking about the small group of people I meet duringa season, I'm sure it goes both ways all the time). I don't think there's an end in sight for how much performance can be enhanced on bows, or anything else. Look at human beings. How long ago was it that it was said to be IMPOSSIBLE for a man to run a sub 4:00 mile? Once it was broken by one man, it became common for top milers...now every so often, the world record is beaten...Will the 3:00 mile be broken in 100 years? LOL Love to see it done man. (darn, I rambled like a 5 year old on Snicker's and Mt. Dew...sorry) :D

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Ya know, back in the late 1980's I said the same thing and all the proshop guys in my area said that we wer maxed out on technology.

So what happened: We really didn't ( we did get a few faster bows) get fasterr bows, just better bows. I knew guys blowing up bows back then shooting 310-15 ft per sec. Today we are shooting bows 310 to 350 with full length arrows. Back then people were shooting up in the 300 FPS range and the bow sounded like a .22 LR going off, now we are shooting in the 300 fps and hardly making any noise at all.

With the direction technology is going, I agree one day comppounds will no longer be accepted a primitive weapons.

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After only 1 year of going trad, I completely agree with that.... It definitely changes your outlook on hunting......... I love it!!

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thanks for all of the posts on here yall and i dont think that the compounds wil be extinct for te reason that the crossbows make it to easy of course people said that about the compund when it first came out and i am the nex generation and i am definitly not switching to crossbows

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Bows have become faster ( judging distance became less crucial). Bows are being made quieter ( more enjoyable to shoot but deer will still hear it). But did the bows become more shootable? I say no. I have owned several brands of bows, two cams, single cams, hybrid cams, magnesium riser, aluminum riser, long ATA, short ATA, and I can't say that any of them shot any better than the others. I believe the biggest improvement in my shooting came from learning proper form. Bow companies add new gadgets to increase speed or reduce decibals so they have something new each year, if they didn't change anything we would all just keep what we have.
I have an older bow that sounds like a rifle going off, but it groups arrows just as well as my newer quiet bow. So I really can't see compounds being banned just because they are a little faster and alot quieter. I think most of the advancement in archery has been in us shooters being taught proper form and techniqueby way of magazines, videos, and forums like this one. I hate to see the bows get all the credit. I think we need a little too.

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Bottom line is dollars, I agree, however WHAT is being marketed and why is it being boughts ? All to make archery EASIER. Name one product marketed in the past 5 years that make compounds HARDER to shoot, that would decrease your chances of tagging. Name one.

Then if its been legal in a state for 30 years there would be no compounders there, right ?

Wrong. Arkansas is the state that has had it legalized for decades, and yet still no flooded woods of cross bow shotoers.

Why ?

What ? You love NOT ebing able to shoot as far ? You love NOT being able to shoot as flat or as fast ? You love NOT having that kind of KE ? You love NOT having letoff, a mechanical release ?

Why ? Thats counter to everything that is human nature, isn't it ? We live in a society where everything is basically disposable. Human life revolves around how we can make it easier, quicker, better and without the fuss from microwaves and tv dinners to TIVO to the electric razor.

And you're trying to tell me that you intentionally handicapping yourself in the woods with your equipment greatly INCREASES what you get out of archery ?

Its not the mose obvious thing that technology has increased, no. However, almost anyone can pick up a compound and be shooting it well enough to hunt with within a day or two. Isn't that amazing in itsself ?

What if there was a new law saying no sights, no mechnical releases and no rests. How accurate would your compound be then ?

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Anyone can learn to shoot well enough to hunt in a day or so? I don't agree...Learning the (physical) rules of archery, and remembering to apply them are two different things. Like when you hear a golfer lament that he "forgot to keepmy head down" and flubbed a shot. When you miss a shot on a deer it's because you made a mistake, and only lots of practice cures that!
That said, I tend to agree that crossbows won't ever take the place of compounds. Although, if the day ever comes that I can't draw a bow, I'll shoot a crossbow before a rifle. I like having to get "up close and personal" with deer. In my opinion, the shot should be the easiest part of the hunt...that's what makes it exciting!

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How long do you think a person should shoot before being able to hunt ? Legally they can hunt same day. Ethically ? A bowhunter needs to be able to put the arrow in the kill zone of an animal consistantly, right ? Even though there is no law mandating it, there is an ethical code to do so.

If you can learn to do it in a few minutes, or if it takes you months to do so, does it matter ?

Fact is, I've seen it time and again where a guy picks up my compound and is able to within minutes shoot good groups. That is all that is required, to bowhunt, isn't it ?

Compounds make it easier and easier to shoot well. They are designed to do so from the highly visible sights to the release, to the mechnical heads to the drop away rests - all designed to do one thing, make shooting the arrow into the intended target EASIER.

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I was around when compounds came out and I saw how quickly recurves went bye-bye.It was almost another 20 years before 'traditional' archery started making a solid comeback, much of that driven by people who were sick of the so-called 'advances' in compound technology.Now traditional is growing rapidly - and there may be morerecurve and longbow shootersnow thanever before -but still makes up only about 5% of all bowhunters. Not extinct but very smallcompared to the compoundjuggernaut.

You say you'd never switch to a crossbow. At the time, I said I'd never switch to a compound. Some 10 years later, I succumbed to pressure,picked up a compound to shoot tournaments and spent another 20 years doing that. I never hunted more than 4-5 times with a compound though. Today,I find myself wishingI'd ever soiled my hands with one.

Even if the compound doesn't go totally extinct, you have to consider that much of the research and development that is going towards compounds now will have to be focused on crossbows when the day comes. Instead of seeing hot new bows and new features every year, it'll be maybe a new wrinkle every 3-5 years. It'll be the crossbows that get the full treatment because that is where the hot end of the market will be.

I was talking to a guy at a shoot this past weekend who was telling me about his brother-in-law. The guy had never picked up a bow before. Last season, he bought a compound with all the gadgets, was shown the basics and was shooting 3" groups at 20 yards by that evening. He went and bagged a doe the next day.

Doesn't seem to be an isolated incident either.

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Dang I never thought that someone could do it that fast, next day, but then with 80% let off, and a fairly strong person could do it. Guess that makes me down a little cause I try to shoot every chance i get almost everyday before season! Does that mean it is to easy?[&:]

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Too easy? I guess that's relative to what you want from bowhunting. Is it just the meat and horns? Or do you want the challenge? If it's the challenge you want, how much challenge? Are you satisfied with the end results or do you feel like something is missing? That tells you whether it's too easy or not.

Personally, I like the challenge. I like the challenge of making my own traditional and primitive bows and thentaking those bowhunting.There is noother style of huntingthat gives me more satisfaction than making meat with a bow and arrows I made with my own hands.

Just as a side note... I often wonder when I see guys griping that they missed their deer becauseof their crappyrest, or couldn't see their sights or their release broke... Would they give full credit to their rest and sights and release when they DO get a deer? If the equipment has to take the blame, then I think it should get the credit!

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Well, I like the challenge of making my own arrows, of watching the arrow score on a 3D target, to watch them hit the circle I am aiming for, to feel the pull of the bow, to hear the silence as the arrows speeds to the target. To climb a stand when it is cold or drizzling, to wait for a deer to come in close to your stand, to feel your heart pounding out of your chest to not be aware of anything around you except the deer that is close enough to shoot! That is why I do it, and do it as much as you can, the self-satisfaction and challenge.

And you are right Arthur P, we complain about the bow or the accessories but how much do we really credit them for success. I will say, that by process of elimination I have what i think is a good bow sight and a good rest, I have seen my scores improve as well as accuracy which is both the rest and the sight as much as it is the practice to put the arrow where you want it at one point of time when you only have one chance! [8D]

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The exact reasons compounds should be allowed in general archery season - just another weapons to improve shooting for that one shot.

Right ?






Compound shooters will have you believe that it takes months and years of constant practice to be accurate. Its just not true.

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Did you mean to say crossbows here?

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yes I was wondering if that was crossbow too.

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once again i will never shoot a crossbow i will stick to the comounds i feel that only disabled hunters that cannot pull back a comp should be allowed them and youth hunters but when they an pull back 55 lbs get them started compund hunting

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That's GREAT! For you. As long as we can all understand not EVERYONE feels the same way as "we do", we'll all be okay. :D


<hijack>
Hey man, my little bro lives in Wilmington...sadly, he doesn't hunt [:o]

RE: HOW LONG WILL IT GO ON
 

[blockquote]quote:

The exact reasoncompounds should be allowed in general archery season - just another weapons to improve shooting for that one shot.
[/blockquote]
Did you mean to say crossbows here?

Yes - that is the reasoning people use to get crossbows allowed into archery season. Its an easier wya to get the arrow to go where you want it to go, lesser chance of wounding, less chance or errors ......... same reasoning that was used to justify the compound for the one fellow.

That might be your feeling, buts it completely flies in the face of reason and makes no sense. First, a 55 pound pull is a silly line to be drawn. Second, a compound is chosen based on the fact it gives the archer greater control and chance of putting the arrow where they want it to go. A Crossbow does the same thing using the same mechanics of letoff, triggered release and high tech gadgets.

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It's all about the challenge for us!!!



Is there a happier kid? My son Josh and his self bow groupping:



The tougher the challenge, the sweeter the accomplishments (me and my 2005 late season traditional harvest):