HuntingNet.com Forums

HuntingNet.com Forums (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/)
-   Bowhunting (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bowhunting-18/)
-   -   Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bowhunting/130856-possible-link-cwd-prions-deer-muscle.html)

atlasman 01-29-2006 12:16 AM

Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8638


The infectious prions that cause Chronic Wasting Disease, an infection similar to BSE that afflicts North American deer and elk have been found in the parts of the animals that people eat. No one knows if CWD can jump to humans, but if it does hunters in affected areas might be at risk.

CWD was first diagnosed as a spongiform encephalopathy in captive deer and elk in Colorado in the 1970s, and in wild deer and elk in the region in the 1980s. But in the 1990s it spread widely within the elk farming industry, jumped to wild deer, and now affects two provinces of Canada and 13 US states.

Like the related sheep disease scrapie – though unlike BSE – CWD spreads from animal to animal, says Glenn Telling of the University of Kentucky at Lexington, US. Deer housed with infected animals, or fed infected brain experimentally, contract the disease.

Because of this there are fears that the CWD prion might be distributed widely in the deer’s tissues – as scrapie is in sheep. Efforts to find the infectious prion in the muscle of infected animals, by seeing whether antibodies to the prion could find any and bind on, have previously failed.

But Telling’s lab has now shown that diseased prions can reside in muscle of deer infected with CWD, by using transgenic mice.
Transgenic mice

The team replaced the gene for the normal mouse version of the prion protein with the normal gene from deer, so the mice made the normal, healthy deer protein. They then injected the mouse brains with tissue from infected deer. Twelve to 18 months later, the mice developed encephalopathy.

Tissues from both the infected deers' brains and thigh muscle caused disease. Muscle took slightly longer to cause disease than brain tissue, showing it had slightly less prion.

“We don’t know that it is transmitted in the wild by animals eating muscle from infected animals,” cautions Telling. “We now have to see where else the prion might be,” including saliva and even excrement, using more transgenic mice.
Brain warnings

“Because we tested deer that were already ill,” he told New Scientist, “we don’t know what the distribution of prion is in animals that are still incubating the disease.” Hunters have been warned by wildlife agencies not to kill and eat obviously ill animals, but an animal not yet showing signs of the disease might still carry the abnormal prion, albeit less of it.

It is also unknown whether people can catch encephalopathy by eating CWD-infected meat, as they can from eating BSE-tainted meat. Anecdotal reports that hunters develop the human prion disease CJD in unusual numbers have never been confirmed. State officials have issued warnings to hunters not to eat brain or spinal cord – the tissues most affected.

“If I were a hunter I would be cautious about eating deer in areas affected,” says Telling. But he notes that not much testing of wildlife has been done, and it is not clear how prevalent the infection is.

Journal reference: Science (DOI: 10.1126/science.1122864)

chandlerwilliams 01-29-2006 09:08 AM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
thats crazy stuff

kevin1 01-29-2006 12:09 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
If it's anything like BSE it will be bad news for sure , many states already restrict and/or ban what parts of the deer you can bring home from a known CWD state , not to mention the risk of eating the meat . [&o]

atlasman 01-29-2006 09:16 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
.

atlasman 01-30-2006 06:21 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
No one cares about this???


Really??


It only says that the infective prions of CWD may be in the muscle tissue of an infected animal. Considering that they have never thought this to be true.........and those mucles are what we are cutting up on our dinner plates I would think that more people would have found this topic worth discussion........especially in light of CWD popping up in more places every year.......Kansas being the latest victim.



wolfen68 01-30-2006 07:11 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 

ORIGINAL: atlasman

No one cares about this???


Really??


It only says that the infective prions of CWD may be in the muscle tissue of an infected animal. Considering that they have never thought this to be true.........and those mucles are what we are cutting up on our dinner plates I would think that more people would have found this topic worth discussion........especially in light of CWD popping up in more places every year.......Kansas being the latest victim.
I care more now than I ever did before being that my home state is the "latest victim"....you never think it's going to happen to you.

I also heard the prions of CWD are most concentrated in the muscles of infant baby deer just out of their spots....[:-]:D

Howler 01-30-2006 08:24 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
I guess my thoughts are this, since the percentage of animals, even in this state where it has been for several years now and has now been found in a moose, that are found to carry the disease, and then figure in the percentage of possiblity of us catching the disease from eating the meat, I'll take my chances. I'm not going to loose any sleep over it. My chances of being killed in a car wreckare much greater, yet I still drive daily!
I do beleive that more study is needed, but for now, I don't beleive it is an end all disease that some beleive it to be!

atlasman 01-30-2006 11:32 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 

ORIGINAL: wolfen68

I care more now than I ever did before being that my home state is the "latest victim"....you never think it's going to happen to you.

It's a real shame that people need something to "happen to them" before they care about it.

wolfen68 01-31-2006 12:39 AM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 

ORIGINAL: atlasman


ORIGINAL: wolfen68

I care more now than I ever did before being that my home state is the "latest victim"....you never think it's going to happen to you.

It's a real shame that people need something to "happen to them" before they care about it.
Who said I didn't care about it? I just am more concerned now that it's at my back door. Yet there is still nothing different I can do to change things. But you with the big "S" on your chest can I'm sure! [&:]

chucker34 01-31-2006 06:43 AM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
I care but I also don't like to jump to any conclusions based on a study they reported few details on. Here is my response to a similar post on the deer hunting forum regarding this article:

I'd agree that CWD is not going away anytime soon and I'm sure it will eventually make its way into the Minnesota herd. I think taking swift action like they've done in Wisconsin with eradication hunts is about the only solution that will show results. I guess its a matter of probably never being able to erase it totally, but manage it the best you can to hopefully miniscule levels.

I don't know much about the New Scientist publication. Checked out their web site and seems like they like to take a sensational angle with many of their articles - as do many publications these days. But they did report the testing was done on mice and not people and sometimes those tests are apples to oranges given the amount of the drug or disease the mouse is exposed to. They also mentioned that the muscle tissue given to the mice was only from sick animals, not animals who were simply incubating the disease. So they have not yet determined if that makes a difference.

It will be interesting to see how organizations and other publications who are keeping close tabs on CWD will respond to this new report. One -theChronicWasting Alliance - has a lot of good practical information on its site.

I definitely think CWD is a serious matter but I think we need to review new information like that in the New Scientist carefully and keep our heads about us before jumping to any conclusions. They haven't really proved bird flu can jump from human to human yet but that's all the news media clamored over for weeks/months.

I'd rather be safe than sorry and not find out after the fact that muscle tissue can indeed transfer CWD to humans, but I also don't want to spread fear before more conclusive evidence is reported on. Case in point - one of our local news channels did an investigative report during sweeps week two years ago claiming a local man died of a brain disease he got from eating CWD infected deer at a Wisconsin game feed. They had his widow on the news crying. Turns out afterward, they belive the disease was the result of something else and the news channel had to correct itself. But that didn't matter, the damage had already been done.

WindsorArcher 01-31-2006 11:54 AM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
It would be interesting to see a study done on whether these genetically altered mice can contract CWD by ingesting unaltered deer meat from a CWD infected deer. In the article Atlasman has quoted, the mice have the pathogens injected directly into their brains. That creates a high concentration of the infection and an abnormal way of contracting it. I'd be a lot more worried if any scientist can prove that CWD can be transmitted through much smaller doses that have been ingested. That way, we are comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges.


atlasman 01-31-2006 04:25 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 

ORIGINAL: wolfen68

Who said I didn't care about it?

Not me.


I just am more concerned now that it's at my back door.

At least you are honest about being selfish ;)



Yet there is still nothing different I can do to change things.

That doesn't stop you from preaching QDM day after day.......think of what you might accomplish if you applied that same effort towards a worthwhile cause like CWD........instead of something so trivial.




GregH 01-31-2006 04:53 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
I don't think that QDM is trivial, I think that it would help to stop the spread of CWD.

game4lunch 01-31-2006 06:07 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
What's your point atlasman? I hope this is not another overreaction to an uncertain problem.
Let me first say that it appears to me that no testing of any kind should be done to lab mice or rats. The filthy little buggers die from everything!!!
(lol)
Seriously, "No known transfer of the disease has ever been found in humans." This is a powerfull statement. Overreaction causes stupid acts to take place. I had heard for instance, that an area of Minnisota where the disease was believed to be, allowed hunters, and even invited them, to eliminate the entire deer population!
Seems to be limited to animals in the deer family. Deer, elk, moose. I talked to a G&F biologist here in Wyoming and she said they were surprised Antelope don't get it. They even fed infected brains to the Antelope and did not get it. Not one!
So I figure, so long as I'm not in the deer family . . .

Here's the mostimportant thing, infected animals are easy to see and detect. I've seen several of them. They are listless, often have chunks of hair gone, do not spook at human presence, often are obviously emaciated which means that rib and hip bones are sticking out. You see one, and call the local Game warden to have them put it down.
What scares me the most, is overreacting to an unknown. And, they have no idea how to cure it. They have discovered that it is most likely transfered from animal to animal through tainted ground, dirt. Like that disease that pigs get.
Keep hunting, eating your harvest, and looking for animals that show obvious signs and you will live long and healthy.

atlasman 02-01-2006 08:52 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 

ORIGINAL: game4lunch

What's your point atlasman?
My point is that the article shows a possible link to infective prions of CWD being in muscle tissue. This is new information in the world of CWD......and if it is true will effect how they advise cautious handling of game in certain if not all areas.......until now organs and cns tissue were their focus.



I hope this is not another overreaction to an uncertain problem.
What is the "overreaction"?.........and what were the others that lead to your "another" label?




Let me first say that it appears to me that no testing of any kind should be done to lab mice or rats.
And let me reply by saying you should learn more about transgenic mice before dismissing them as viable research.



"No known transfer of the disease has ever been found in humans." This is a powerfull statement.
And until this information came out the above quote was always accompanied by "No prions have ever been found in skeletal muscle tissue".......ooops. It's a much better strategy to stay informed and not hang your hat on one statement and plug your ears to anything else because it might say something you don't want to hear. I don't want CWD to be a danger to humans as much as anyone in the world........but I would rather be informed and aware about such a dynamic topic.



Overreaction causes stupid acts to take place.

I'm still confused as to what you see as an "overreaction"......discussing an article in a science journal is over reacting?? I haven't seen anyone here make any rash statements or jump to any conclusions.




So I figure, so long as I'm not in the deer family . . .
I hope that works out for ya.




Here's the mostimportant thing, infected animals are easy to see and detect.
A lot of people thought that about AIDS too........now they are all dead.

Deer don't show the signs you are speaking of until the disease is advanced........the incubation period is a mystery and they don't have any idea when or how infective the deer are at various stages of the disease.



What scares me the most, is overreacting to an unknown.
What scares me is that you hunt in places where sick deer are seen regularly and you trust your "eye" for a sick animal to be your guide. You do know that a sick animal doesn't have to be in advanced state of disease to be infective right?



Germ 02-01-2006 09:14 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
The biggest issue we face as hunters are the canned hunts and high fence ranches. CWD has been linked to these places. I have done a lot of research the last couple of days and it is not good. We are going to have more sick wild herds if we let this get out of hand.
Its time we stand up and so no to high fences hunts. It is time to put a stop to it!!!!! We are going to let the Anti's eat us alive, and if we are true contravationalist we need to put a stop to canned hunts. We have only seen the tip of this iceberg.

game4lunch 02-01-2006 09:23 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
I guess my question should have been, "So does this mean you are done as a deer hunter?"
Very simple solution is to have the animal checked by proper authorities before eating it. Here in Wyoming it can be done for free.
I think killing every living animal IS overreacting. And there are areas where this is what was recommended. Just don't like it.
So keep hunting, eating, etc. Just test it first.

atlasman 02-02-2006 05:13 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 

ORIGINAL: game4lunch

I guess my question should have been, "So does this mean you are done as a deer hunter?"
Of course not.......talk about an overreaction [:o] I will never be done as a deer hunter.....I don't see what that has to do with making certain the meat I and my family consume is safe.




Very simple solution is to have the animal checked by proper authorities before eating it. Here in Wyoming it can be done for free.
I don't know of any test in NY as of right now........there may be one I am not aware of though. How accurate is this test?? Does it detect all stages of the disease including the incubation period??



I think killing every living animal IS overreacting. And there are areas where this is what was recommended. Just don't like it.
Unfortunately that is the most effective way to eradicate a disease in animals........right or wrong it will be done in problem CWD areas. The LAST thing they are worried about in a CWD outbreak area is hurting the hunting opportunities. Public health is the ultimate trump card.

game4lunch 02-02-2006 05:27 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
The tests are conducted by the Game & Fish at their labs in conjunction with the University of Wyoming. Even though we're out here at the edge of the planet, I trust their results.

Would be a real money maker if somebody would come out with a "field test" that was reliable.

Sure glad they didn't think that way before they had a cure for polio.

chucker34 02-02-2006 06:19 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 
Not sure I would call the New Scientist a scientific journal. In fact, let me correct myself. I wouldn't. It's more along the lines of Popular Science.

atlasman 02-02-2006 10:40 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 

ORIGINAL: game4lunch

The tests are conducted by the Game & Fish at their labs in conjunction with the University of Wyoming. Even though we're out here at the edge of the planet, I trust their results.
Based on what?.......what information do you have about the test or how it is done or what it's accuracy is? Is it guarenteed 100%? What kind of sample do you send them?......what care is given to these samples as far as storage from the time you send them in until they are tested to insure a viable tissue sample?

I really don't know what they do for these tests because I don't even know of one around here. Thanks in advance for any info you can give.



Would be a real money maker if somebody would come out with a "field test" that was reliable.
The liability would be astronomical.


Sure glad they didn't think that way before they had a cure for polio.
What do you mean?

atlasman 02-02-2006 10:41 PM

RE: Possible link to CWD prions in deer muscle
 

ORIGINAL: chucker34

Not sure I would call the New Scientist a scientific journal. In fact, let me correct myself. I wouldn't. It's more along the lines of Popular Science.
New Scientist is just citing the article and using it for a story.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:50 PM.


Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.