CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

Well you can add Kansas to the list of states with CWD now...just had our first confirmed case in Cheyenne County....Katie bar the door! [:o]

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

Hopefully your DNR doesn't come in with truckloads of corn and sharpshooters like they're doing here in Northern IL. It's ridiculous. [:@]

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

I read that in the paper do think it will spread or do you guys think the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks can get it stopped since they caught it pretty early?

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

It seems our folks at KDWP have their hands tied managing our herd by the politicians motivated by selling out our deer to big money and outfitters...doesn't help when the head man has on ownership interest in an outfitting operation[:'(] It's only one case and they have been sampling along the western borders for a few years so hopefully they can isolate it and halt or impede its progress.

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

They will get a hold of it real quick. They have been random testing for years. They have done alot of things right over the years, that is why we have a quality heard. We are only estimated around 350,000 deer while other states boast in the millions. Probably one of those deer off Brokeback Mountain escaped and came down here and tried that funny stuff with one of our Monster Bucks. Not even our wildlife tolerates that around these parts.

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

I'm not a CWD expert by any means. I live in Wis. and have not personally seen a deer that exibited the signs of the disease (later stages ). I've read where it is spread by nose to nose feeding or close contact feeding. In the wild it seems that at times deer also nose to nose feed, especially in picked grain fields where grain spillage has occured. However, in the case of farm raised deer, it is way more likely to happen by thenature of the way they are fed. Lookat how farm animals are fed. They are always close contact feeding. I believe that farm raised deer are responsible for a large part of the CWD problem in our wild deer. All it takes is for some fool to cut a hole in the fence for the farm deer to escape and you have a carrier mixing in with the wild population. This has happened many times. As far as I know, the purpose of farm raised deer is to provide big antlered specimens to game farms so that rich "hunters" can pay to shoot a "trophy" of a life time. I'm sure that older does and cull bucks go to market as venison, but I'm not sure if there is a need to produce these "trophy" animals unless they can be better controlled and kept disease free.I feel that our wildlife and enviornment are a higher priority. JMO

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

Greg, your post is a good example of what many feel. You posted nicely, and my reply in no way is meant to discredit you personally. I dont agree with your opinion, though. Is it because I raise deer? Maybe, but also because of what Im being told. The same folks that tell you its nose to nose, tell me its taxidermy waste. Specimens coming from Colorado, for example, and coming in contact with wild deer. We are told the biologists do NOT know how it spreads, and clinically, it doesnt always spread under controls. By the way, Im also a taxidermist, go figure!

I dont want to start, nor will I answer, posts about hunting preserves, etc, as any hunter foolish enough to fight from within isnt worth the time. But Ill tell you this, I dont believe CWD is racing across the country, although its the hot new buzz word, and I also believe its present in many areas without our knowledge, and only the increased testing has exposed much of it. Hell, my livelihood depends on deer, so I dont take this stuff lightly!

Before some of you wish away the captive deer program, think about all the usages YOU have that are the result of captive deer. You can include research to the list, too. I keep hearing of the so-called "greed for a giant buck" etc. Its a much bigger picture then that. Turn that scenario around from our perspective...if its truly worth so much, we are going to risk loosing that much? Bingo.

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

KDOW will likely have a knee jerk reaction although the truth is likely that Kansas deer has had CWD for decades being such a close proximity to Colorado

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

Thanks Bill, I'm all for learning, but I didn't really see the point of your post. I thought it was kind of vague.

Before some of you wish away the captive deer program, think about all the usages YOU have that are the result of captive deer. You can include research to the list, too. I keep hearing of the so-called "greed for a giant buck" etc. Its a much bigger picture then that. Turn that scenario around from our perspective...if its truly worth so much, we are going to risk loosing that much? Bingo.

I really don't know of any usages I have that are the result of captive deer. What are they, Scents - Doe pee, meat, big bucks for preserves and research? That's all I can think of. Personally, I only eat venison that I have hunted, I don't use natural scents and I certainly don't hunt farm raised deer. As far as research, I'm not sure, what kind of research? Exactly, what kinds of things are the deer you raise used for? Maybe I have been benifitting from captive deer without even realizing it. Please enlighten me.

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

I hope if they are thinking towards reducing herds that they should let the hunters do it.Here in WI they just hired sharpshooters for $100dollars a kill. I hope that they caught it early though cause I hate to see all that great deer hunting area be contaminated.

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

Looks like Kansas is taking a page out of the IL CWD Control Handbook. [X(]

http://www.joplinglobe.com/story.php...23086&c=87

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

That's not good one bit. Just another way for politics to liberalize the deer hunting. In the 2004 season Kansas did a lot of testing for CWD in basically every county with hundreds of deer. It seemed as if the western countries were of the most concern due to the check stations. This year they did away with a lot of the testing since they all came back negative. CWD will sure take a twist for Kansas deer Hunting.

This brings up a discussion. What will this do to tags allotted per region, or even state? What will it do in terms of banning baiting? How may this change the debate over NR tags? Or will it not have any effect at all.. I know it's too early to answer the questions, but they're all items which can and may be effected.

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

I don't see the problem. They need to test to see if it is wide spread or not. Taks care of the problem before is spreads east towards my hunting.

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

Greg, my comments were as much a spin off from other CWD discussions we have had, previous CWD situations as they were about your post specifically. I used you because your thoughts are similar to many others in the past, and you said it without the negativity we have seen...again, in the past.

As for usages...most of the pics you see in magazines, calenders and books are from enclosures. I know the animals, sometimes by farm names, from many of them. You already said you dont use natural lures or urine, but thats another. Most of the calls are developed by studying captive deer. I can name names here too. As for research, man, where do I even start? Leonard Lee Rue studied from Fred Space in NJ, and Joe Taylor in Pa. Dr. Bubenik had the captive herds at Guelph University in Ontario. Dr. John Ozoga uses the Cusino facility in Michigan. Theres Texas A&M, Georgia, and so many others. Much of what you read as research has been conducted in enclosures. Thats magazines as well as textbooks. Vocalizations, photoperiodism, reproduction cycles, antler growth, deer management, the list is almost endless.

Most videos you can buy nowadays, with some exceptions, of course, are filmed in large enclosures. Some dont care for it, I know, but its what it is.

The latest research in controlling blue tongue, EHD, is being done with captive herds. It was once believed that once deer showed the syptoms of EHD, that it was irreversible. We now know better. Theres a very large scale program going on now with many states rearing deer for research with assistance from specific universities for CWD being sent to Colorado. Its from private captive herds. I am not at liberty to name names here, but trust me its ongoing.

Poorly run enclosures will always be the industries blackeye. Folks only knowing a small bit of bad info is often just as bad. Those who depend on the deer industry are of course, like me, quick to defend it. But we who are responsible, and most of us are, would be as quick to pull the plug if it were truly wrong. Unfortunately, most dont believe that...

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

Here a good read on CWD! I would say good but.....

CWD's risk to humans might be greater than thought

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

Thanks Bill, that was informative and there are some uses from which I've bennifitted without knowing. You are right... all it takes is one bad apple to spoil the bunch. Its the careless operations that concern me. Somehow, these operations need some kind of policies and proceedures in place to eliminate the "bad apples"before any damages can't take place. Another thing that concerns me is all these hobby farms that I see when I drive around that have exotic species roaming the premises. You know, zebras, gazelles, camels, unicorns and others. What kinds of problems can these non-native species bring with them?

RE: CWD Confirmed in Kansas
 

Greg, thanks for the opportunity to discuss this with you. I usually run into the "he-man" types that flat out hate every form of hunting theyre not familiar with. Some of what I type in these forums is fact, and much of it is simply my opinion. I hope youll find both worth reading.

In our deerfarming industry, we have governing bodies such as state game and fish dept. (which arent always so above board) and veterinary boards, as well as NADEFA, our own group. We are largely self regulating for obvious reasons, to protect the farm and the animals. You and I have both seen the footage of some half drugged exotic animal cowering under a vehicle while some out-of-place "hunter" tries to circle the vehicle to flush out his "game". Thats what a true canned hunt is by definition. The naysayers, of course, will aggressively counter that ANY hunt where the animal eventually runs into a fence is canned too. I remind them of Texas, Africa, their own pond, the place they place and shoot pheasants, etc etc. If its not for the guy, fine, lets move on. But for the sake of arguing, there ARE differences.

Most deerfarmers start out for the love of the animal. Most want to build a bigger buck, so to say, by studying genetics and lining out a particular trait. In the ideal situation, culls as well as successful big bucks are going to find an end usage. The big boys go to stud, like any other livestock venture. Semen is drawn, and they do live breeding too. But sooner or later they are replaced, and they along with culls, are sold to hunting operations. Bulls are sent to slaughter, cows are butchered, its how it goes with hoofstock. The big difference is that most of us get herky jerky when we see the propaganda.

I know of so many beautiful farms where theres big acreage, with everything as natural as youd want it. They breeding program improves the quality and size of the game much like a fish hatchery. When animals are needed to be brought in, theyre put into smaller enclosures to acclamate them to their surroundings, then re-released.

Now, with so many groups trying to shut down this industry, THEY are making the black eyes I mentioned earlier. Due to ignorance and jealousy, groups have pressured state agencies to control game farms. This control sometimes includes how a person can legally operate. That cause many to go "underground" so to speak, and operate outside of the law and healthy practices. They feel they have no other choice. Thats what sucks. We do it above board, with respect for the animal, yet we are judged by all based on those few.

Im not trying to justify what we do really, or make you guys enclosure hunters. But, based on its overwhelming demand its obviously widely accepted. Those who dont care for it get a mouthfull of the bad apple and speak against it. I cant change those minds.

Getting back to your last question, though...I have mixed feelings on the mixed species farms. Yes, if there werent any code of ethics (there is) or any controls (there are) with regards to importation and housing, there couldve been trouble. Almost all farms like these require veterinary inspection. Im way too lazy to type outall of what I have to do just for deer. TB monitoring, lots of veterinary work done by vets and me, and CWD monitoring. For example, could you imagine having a litter of puppies, and having the state tell you that you need to put down a certain percentage of the litter for testing? Remember, the CWD test is post-mortem. Thats how we have to operate if we dont have the means to physically immobilize every animal for year-end CWD monitoring, tag reading and animal IDing.

In many instances, exotic farms with non-native species have actually SAVED some threatened species. Dick Cabela can list instances where this has happened historically. Here in NY state where CWD was found due to taxidermy waste, they believe, testing has been ongoing. To date, since May theyve tested some 8,000 deer...with no positives.

In closing, those guys who argue over things like crossbows, or early seasons, or fences, or any other topic concerning different usages within the broad spectrum that is hunting are going to take exception to every word I say, even though I threw in my many disclaimers. The intelligent man recognizes for himself which types of usage he chooses to use, and either tolerates or ignores those he doesnt, all for the common interest. He smartly realizes that fighting within the ranks is the surest way to insure defeat.